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iOptron CEM70 vs CEM70G -- ZWO ASIAir Pro

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#1 NWArk Skyward

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 08:53 PM

I am about to buy either the CEM70 or CEM70G as I start to tip-toe into the deep waters of astrophotography.  

 

To complicate the decision, I am attracted to the ZWO ASIair Pro for the ability to control everything from an iPad and simplify equipment in the field.

 

The 70G has a built in guiding camera and software called iGuider and think the ASIair Pro would be redundant.   Maybe iGuider is better; however, I can't find any details on the software.

 

So, which would be better: 

CEM70 + ASIAir Pro,

CEM70G with the bundled guiding software and integrated guide camera

CEM70G + ASIAir Pro (will the integrated guide camera work with the ASIPro?)

 

CEM70G is $400 more than the CEM70.  You get the integrated guide camera and USB3 over USB2 on the CEM70

 

ASI Air Pro with guide camera is about $330, making either route (CEM70 or CEM70G) about the same money.

 

Based on little experience I lean toward the CEM70 and ASIair Pro due to the clean iOS interface, open/non-integrated option to change guide cameras and software down the road, etc.    While USB3 would be nice, I don't see it being a huge negative to just have USB2.

 

Many thanks for anyone's guidance on the route to take. 


Edited by NWArk Skyward, 28 May 2020 - 08:54 PM.


#2 kingjamez

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:00 PM

I don't think we know enough yet about the performance of the built in iGuider. That said, given the weight capacity of the CEM70, I think it's unlikely to work for the kind of telescopes that the CEM70 is well suited to carrying.

 

I expect iGuider to work well for things upto RASA or Hyperstars, but for any heavy, long focal length telescope it'll be inadequate. You'll almost certainly be better served by an OAG.

 

For just starting out, with something like a short refractor the iGuider may do well.

 

The real reason to go with the CEM70G is for USB3.0. That's worth money, but I'm not sure it's worth $400.00. If it were me, I'd save the $400 and go with the standard CEM70, but I haven't used the mount. I have owned the CEM60 for several years. I tore it's USB ports out (along with the polar scoe) and ran my own USB3.0 cable through the mount so I could attach my own USB3.0 hub to the saddle. I suspect you could do something similar with the CEM70.

 

-Jim


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#3 NWArk Skyward

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:26 PM

I'd save the $400 and go with the standard CEM70, but I haven't used the mount. I have owned the CEM60 for several years. I tore it's USB ports out (along with the polar scoe) and ran my own USB3.0 cable through the mount so I could attach my own USB3.0 hub to the saddle. I suspect you could do something similar with the CEM70.

 

-Jim

With you CEM60/iOptron experience, would you buy another iOptron mount today?  

 

I looked at the CGX/CGX-L and landed on the CEM60/70/70G due to weight, tri-pier, portability, and reviews of quality.   However, looking around this site has me finding pretty unhappy iOptron customers that sews doubt in my mind.   

 

More ultimately, if you were in the market now with a mount budget around $4000, what would you buy -- iOptron or otherwise?   I have an EdgeHD 11 now, probably a refactor in the future. 

 

Thanks again.



#4 kingjamez

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 09:45 PM

I have absolutely zero complaints about my CEM60. I bought mine about 1.5 years after they came out, so they had time to get QC working well.

 

After my experience with the CEM60 (and a ZEQ25 that I upgraded to CEM25), I'm likely to keep buying iOpteron mounts when I need a new one. I'm tempted to upgrade to the CEM70.

 

I was very tempted to upgrade, but my last imaging session I maintained right at 0.5" RMS error all night (sometimes dipping to 0.39" over 5 minutes) with a C11 and I'm completely convinced that my seeing is what's limiting my guiding accuracy, not my mount. 

 

There are many nights when I'm up at 0.8" or even 1.0" RMS though. My mount is permanently pier mounted, and nothing changs except the sky when I get nights of excellent guiding. To that end, I don't know that a better mount would buy me much... maybe 0.1" due to smaller peak-to-peak errors.

 

Zero regrets after 3 years. 

 

-Jim 

Attached Thumbnails

  • good_guiding.jpg

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#5 ZL4PLM

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 10:18 PM

With you CEM60/iOptron experience, would you buy another iOptron mount today?  

 

I looked at the CGX/CGX-L and landed on the CEM60/70/70G due to weight, tri-pier, portability, and reviews of quality.   However, looking around this site has me finding pretty unhappy iOptron customers that sews doubt in my mind.   

 

More ultimately, if you were in the market now with a mount budget around $4000, what would you buy -- iOptron or otherwise?   I have an EdgeHD 11 now, probably a refactor in the future. 

 

Thanks again.

I think if you read enough here on CN I could find unhappy customers for almost all products on the market.

 

Each to their own and a lot of how the user operates and works but for me personally I ditched all my Celestron mounts and migrated to Ioptrons and a couple locals did the same all successfully and I've never looked back -  but there will be horror stories all ways for sure!

 

My CEM60 has been the most reliable and performant mount I have owned and the least trouble. My CEM40 has been the same way - now that's not to say they don't have quirks but there isn't a perfect mount or scope on the market else we would all own one! But right now I'd buy my CEM60 instantly again and the 40. 

 

I will be adding a 70 to the stable once it arrives - I have no doubt it will perform as good if not better than the 60 - Ioptron have come a long way.

 

:)

Cheers

 

Simon 


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#6 NWArk Skyward

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 10:32 PM

I will be adding a 70 to the stable once it arrives - I have no doubt it will perform as good if not better than the 60 - Ioptron have come a long way.

 

smile.gif

Cheers

 

Simon 

Thank you.  I guess like most things in life, your mileage may vary.

 

I will proceed with the CEM70 and just use an OAG so keep everything open, let each part be best at what it does.

 

FWIW, I called OPT to see how many months I'd have to wait on a CEM70.  To my surprise, they said 2 weeks.   


Edited by NWArk Skyward, 28 May 2020 - 10:37 PM.

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#7 SteveGR

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Posted 29 May 2020 - 11:05 AM

With you CEM60/iOptron experience, would you buy another iOptron mount today?  

 

I looked at the CGX/CGX-L and landed on the CEM60/70/70G due to weight, tri-pier, portability, and reviews of quality.   However, looking around this site has me finding pretty unhappy iOptron customers that sews doubt in my mind.   

 

More ultimately, if you were in the market now with a mount budget around $4000, what would you buy -- iOptron or otherwise?   I have an EdgeHD 11 now, probably a refactor in the future. 

 

Thanks again.

If you are using an 11" Edge, then I doubt that guider version would serve you well.  An off axis guider is probably where you would want to look to for guiding at that focal length.



#8 RichieNg

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Posted 12 June 2020 - 10:36 PM

 

CEM70G with the bundled guiding software and integrated guide camera

 

I received my CEM70G yesterday. Not heard about iOptron will be releasing software bundle for integrated guide camera like iPolar , the manual show PHD2 is using. it will be great if there will be software bundle for the integrated camera or even embedded into the hand control for guiding.  



#9 dvb

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 08:21 PM

The 70/ 70G split seems odd to me - the built in guidescope of the G is of no interest to me, but the USB3 might be. So, a fairly big $$$ jump to get USB3. I don't understand why USB3 wasn't built into in the base CEM70 - would it be that much more expensive than USB2?


Edited by dvb, 14 June 2020 - 11:43 PM.


#10 msacco

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 01:36 AM

The 70/ 70G split seems odd to me - the built in guidescope of the G is of no interest to me, but the USB3 might be. So, a fairly big $$$ jump to get USB3. I don't understand why USB3 wasn't built into in the base CEM70 - would it be that much more expensive than USB2?

Totally agree with that, it makes no sense to me.

USB3 should be standard these days, it's a shame it still isn't.

 

I understood the guidescope is meh, and I won't pay $400 for USB3, I have my USB hub on my scope anyway, so that's still only 1 cable going down.



#11 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 05:32 AM

I have absolutely zero complaints about my CEM60. I bought mine about 1.5 years after they came out, so they had time to get QC working well.

 

After my experience with the CEM60 (and a ZEQ25 that I upgraded to CEM25), I'm likely to keep buying iOpteron mounts when I need a new one. I'm tempted to upgrade to the CEM70.

 

I was very tempted to upgrade, but my last imaging session I maintained right at 0.5" RMS error all night (sometimes dipping to 0.39" over 5 minutes) with a C11 and I'm completely convinced that my seeing is what's limiting my guiding accuracy, not my mount. 

 

There are many nights when I'm up at 0.8" or even 1.0" RMS though. My mount is permanently pier mounted, and nothing changs except the sky when I get nights of excellent guiding. To that end, I don't know that a better mount would buy me much... maybe 0.1" due to smaller peak-to-peak errors.

 

Zero regrets after 3 years. 

 

-Jim 

Seems indeed a fine mount...i don't guide yet so  i still don't know how good it tracks but subs unguided to 90 sec seems rather good..depending onhow good i can align it.

And my 102 mm sits rock solid on it...

I am glad i bought it, TS is out of stock again now, wonder if it will come back...i sensed it...that 's why i boght it immediately, ohterwise i would have waited until automn or so...


Edited by F.Meiresonne, 17 June 2020 - 05:36 AM.

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#12 ZL4PLM

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 05:26 AM

please be aware CEM70 is not yet supported with the ASIAIR as the drivers have not been added to the release packages yet - coming soon!



#13 suvowner

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 09:14 PM

please be aware CEM70 is not yet supported with the ASIAIR as the drivers have not been added to the release packages yet - coming soon!

 

cem70 already supported on stellarmate



#14 RogeZ

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 09:24 PM

Already supported on ASIAIR Pro.

#15 ZL4PLM

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 06:47 AM

seems it got added in 1.4.4  very quickly - still waiting on them to come in to NZ :) 



#16 suvowner

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 08:23 AM

Just FYI Jasem said it is the same driver as the cem120, he just basically had to change mount names to cem70. This does give a clue as to what to expect from the cem70, which the same tracking performance as the cem120. 




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