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Kiso 5639

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#1 quazar2906

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 12:29 PM

Kiso 5639 is one of the most beautiful world's galaxies.

The galaxy, located 82 million light-years away, has taken billions of years to develop because it has been drifting through an isolated “desert” in the universe, devoid of much gas.

Question: Can someone observe it with amateur telescope?

Thanks a lot!

George

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#2 Don W

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 02:10 PM

I can't find any magnitude information on it. That would be helpful.


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#3 Tempus

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 03:13 PM

From what I can find, it's also listed as Leda 36252 and KUG 1138+372 

 

Here is the NED page



#4 spereira

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 09:47 AM

Moving to Deep Sky Observing, for a better fit.

 

smp



#5 sgottlieb

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 05:33 PM

This is an example of what used to be called a "Cometary" galaxy, but the current classification is a "Tadpole" galaxy, a subclass of Blue Compact Dwarfs (BCD).  THE Tadpole Galaxy (UGC 10214 or Arp 188) is the most famous galaxy with a tadpole shape but it's the result of an interaction and not an isolated BCD.

 

The HST study from 2016 on KISO 5639 (also KUG 1138+327 or PGC 36252) includes a number of images through different filters.  In the HST news blurb, KISO 5639 was called the "Sky Rocket" galaxy.

 

More generally, there's a 2012 paper titled "Local Tadpole Galaxies" that studied 14 UV-bright Tadpoles.  The common feature is a giant star-forming region ("head") at one end, and a bulgeless gas-poor "tail" or disc extending from the head.

 

These galaxies have a low surface brightness (KUG 1138+327 is probably close to 16th magnitude) and a very blue color.  I'd expect they would be difficult visual targets except perhaps in large scopes. A brighter example, though, is NGC 4861 (also Arp 266 or Mrk 59).  The giant HII region at the south end (the "head") has a high surface brightness (looks like a fuzzy 12th mag star) and responds to a narrowband or OIII filter.  It's possible a filter could help on some of the other fainter Tadpoles.


Edited by sgottlieb, 31 May 2020 - 09:29 PM.

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#6 Feidb

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 12:16 PM

Oh yeah, ready to whip out my 8X30 binos and have a peek! LOL!


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#7 sgottlieb

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:44 PM

The last object I mentioned, the HII knot in NGC 4861, is visible in a 10-inch scope as a soft 12th or 13th magnitude "star" and it responds to a UHC-style filter!  The main elongated body, though, does have a low surface brightness.  I may give some of the others a try.


Edited by sgottlieb, 01 June 2020 - 03:09 PM.

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#8 quazar2906

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 07:07 AM

I have to assert something BRILLIANT!

Kiso 5639 who is discovered in 2004 and has a distance from earth around 82 million light years, is too difficult, finally, to observe with a  telescope, whereas the galaxy NGC 4261 which was discovered earlier of course, has a distance 100 million light years from earth according to most websites (hubble one disagrees), can be observed even through supergiant binoculars with tremendous difficulty...I have recently started studying astronomy and I fell in the deep already, so I urgently need your opinion, thanks!


Edited by quazar2906, 09 June 2020 - 02:28 AM.


#9 J Lowrey

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 12:00 AM

I just came in from my telescope and wanted to report a positive observation of Kiso 5639.  At 375X It was picked up with direct vision as a small narrow glow.  At 610X it really came alive.  It had a mottled appearance and the bright knot on the end was coming and going with the seeing.  I had looked at the SDSS spectrum and noted that Kiso 5639 had a big spike in the OIII line.  I put on a DGM galaxy contrast filter and it was like someone had switched the galaxy on. The bright knot on the end was direct vision. I really got a good response to the filter.  I tried a OIII filter and it did not help. It made the field to dark for this faint galaxy. Best view tonight was at 610X with the DGM galaxy contrast filter. 


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#10 Bill Weir

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 01:08 AM

Interesting, Jimi is that this filter?  https://www.omegafil...om/product/4381

Have you noticed this filter working well with other galaxies with active regions. It could make an interesting addition to the arsenal. Not very expensive either.

 

Bill



#11 Redbetter

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 02:53 AM

I have to assert something BRILLIANT!

Kiso 5639 who is discovered in 2004 and has a distance from earth around 82 million light years, is too difficult, finally, to observe with even a huge professional telescope, whereas the galaxy NGC 4261 which was discovered earlier of course, has a distance 100 million light years from earth according to most websites (hubble one disagrees), can be observed even through supergiant binoculars with tremendous difficulty...I have recently started studying astronomy and I fell in the deep already, so I urgently need your opinion, thanks!

As you observe you will discover that many things that most folks assume cannot be seen are actually not out of reach for an experienced visual observer under dark/transparent/stable skies.  (Large professional scopes with high resolution and deep imaging gear will see lots of detail in a galaxy like this, and will usually render many things that the eye cannot.)  Kiso 5639 (PGC 36252) appears to be only a moderately challenging object based on the numbers:  roughly 15.5 to 15.6 V mag, but~30 arc seconds from a 12.4 mag star which can help to mask it somewhat particularly with marginal aperture.  My 20" will often allow me to see about 17 V mag galaxies on good nights, sometimes substantially dimmer.  However, poor transparency and/or poor seeing can easily obscure a galaxy like this one, and sometimes my eye is just not dialed in for the dim stuff...particularly in cold windy conditions.

 

I haven't observed it to confirm a visual impression.  It is on my list for this week, so hopefully I will be able to report if my scouting estimates were accurate or not.  

 

p.s. I don't know when it was first catalogued, but the PGC 36252 designation suggests it has been known since at least the late 1980's when the PGC was first published.  I assume the 2004 date refers to its later analysis and classification as a UV excess galaxy (Kiso or KUG catalogs.)  

 

This is a small, dwarf galaxy that is "relatively" close.  These make great targets for folks that want to test their visual observation limits.  Moderately large apertures might just make a detection, while larger apertures might see some rudimentary structure, and very large scopes might detect increasing structure when the seeing/transparency support it.  



#12 Redbetter

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 03:28 AM

I just came in from my telescope and wanted to report a positive observation of Kiso 5639.  At 375X It was picked up with direct vision as a small narrow glow.  At 610X it really came alive.  It had a mottled appearance and the bright knot on the end was coming and going with the seeing.  I had looked at the SDSS spectrum and noted that Kiso 5639 had a big spike in the OIII line.  I put on a DGM galaxy contrast filter and it was like someone had switched the galaxy on. The bright knot on the end was direct vision. I really got a good response to the filter.  I tried a OIII filter and it did not help. It made the field to dark for this faint galaxy. Best view tonight was at 610X with the DGM galaxy contrast filter. 

 

Interesting.  I am not at all surprised that you could see it directly in that 48" with your experience with such targets.  Based on the details and mags I'm guessing that the seeing was decent too?  That is what I find most important for large aperture on DSO's when I want to move past ~278x.  Dark skies and aperture only get me admission...they don't guarantee good seats.

 

The DGM galaxy filter sounds like a useful tool.  I have tried using various yellow/orange filters to accentuate some of the heavily extincted (MW dust) galaxies such as a few of the IC's nearby, Dwingeloo's and the Maffei galaxies, but have only seen modest levels of enhancement with the 20" with specific targets.   It is intriguing to me that the filter worked for a galaxy that has bluer emissions in general.  I realize that the head has some redder emissions associated with it and therefore could stand out, but I would have expected other aspects to possibly dim or lose contrast...although the extra aperture might be the difference.

 

I don't know if you checked the following or not, but I noticed several other nearby galaxies with similar bluish spectra (SDSS-III) and distances based on velocities.  Nearby is the similarly bright PGC 36279 to the SE--a Magellanic type single spiral.  Much more challenging (for a 20" at least) would be PGC 139659 which is SSE of the latter.  That one is about 17.0 mag in green and only about 3 arc minutes from an 8.6 mag star.  It is listed as an irregular and has structure with a brighter head to the east, not unlike Kiso 5639 although the contrast is not as great.  The SDSS-III image splits the bright head at a plate boundary, but the DSS2 image seems to show the brighter head is real rather than artifact or star. It would make in interesting comparison with the Tadpole galaxies in the study.  

 

The whole group (and any others I may have missed in a cursory glance) might make for an interesting comparison study of their ages/star formation/and emission nebulae.   I can't help but wonder if one or more interacted in the recent past, leading to bursts of star formation that are evident now.



#13 J Lowrey

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 08:14 AM

Interesting, Jimi is that this filter?  https://www.omegafil...om/product/4381

Have you noticed this filter working well with other galaxies with active regions. It could make an interesting addition to the arsenal. Not very expensive either.

 

Bill

Hi Bill

It also works well on galaxies with H II knots.  I have had this filter a long time and don’t often use it although I don’t know why.


Edited by J Lowrey, 09 June 2020 - 03:26 PM.


#14 quazar2906

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 08:47 AM

Thank you ALL for your polite answers and comments!

It is honour for me to get encircled by experienced and winsome people with good heart.

Happy fun and best wishes!!

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#15 sgottlieb

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 03:27 PM

p.s. I don't know when it was first catalogued, but the PGC 36252 designation suggests it has been known since at least the late 1980's when the PGC was first published.  I assume the 2004 date refers to its later analysis and classification as a UV excess galaxy (Kiso or KUG catalogs.)  

It looks like it was first cataloged in 1983 as WAS 25 (Wasilewski emission-line galaxy) from this paper.

 

The note for WAS 25 states "Bright elongated patch with two knots. Eastern knot is the emitter. Near Nos. 27 and 28."

 

WAS 27 and 28 are the two galaxies mentioned in your post.

 

WAS 27 = Mrk 746 = CGCG 186-025 = PGC 36279

WAS 28 = LEDA 139659.


Edited by sgottlieb, 09 June 2020 - 03:29 PM.

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#16 Keith Rivich

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 08:57 PM

I'll give it a go this weekend in the 25". If that doesn't work I'll hijack Larry's 36" for a few minutes. grin.gif



#17 Redbetter

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 06:24 AM

I observed this one and others in the region tonight.  For various reasons I got started late and was observing the galaxies skirting down the side of a tall pine as they set lower.  Transparency was excellent but seeing was mediocre.  This low in the sky, things are more impacted by the valley's light pollution---not a good time of the year to target these.   Luckily poor seeing and the northerly position helped compensate for the western rotation this time of year.   

 

After a quick early foray to find UGC 8325 (proximity of M3 and Coma) and SN 2020jhf essentially at its center, I turned to NGC 3788 and 3786 to warm up.  These make a fine, very closely interacting pair, bright, and of good size.  The outer extent of 3786 was only tenuously seen.  The striking thing about 3788 is the bright northern arc which sometimes appeared to have a stellar center in averted vision.  (I don't see a star or stellar knot there in images, but I doubt it is a supernova, perhaps just a trick of the seeing.)  I could tell it was going to be a good (although short) night when I was able to tentatively detect PGC 1969819 just SW of 3786.  This background galaxy provided consistent hints in averted vision, although not strong enough to be certain.  It's nominal B mag is 17.5, but if I was seeing it, then its V mag is likely around 17 based on the conditions I had.  I may have also picked up PGC 1971862 trailing 3788 some distance, but it was similarly challenging. 

 

I turned to Kiso 5639 and had it immediately.  At 278x it was seen as a very faint/fuzzy lower case "i" on its side.  The dot is the brighter head of the tadpole, although not quite stellar.  No detail past that, seeing wouldn't support it and I was skirting high limbs at the time.  I then found the nearer companion (as Steve said, WAS 27 = Mrk 746 = CGCG 186-025 = PGC 36279).  The latter was not difficult, and I had the impression of an xf stellar core.  I was not sure what to make of the overall shape--it wasn't elongated in a normal ellipse fashion and had some square/diamond shape to its main body.  

 

I might have also seen the 3rd member of the group, WAS 28 = LEDA 139659.  I was consistently getting a hit in what turns out to be the right area, but a problem with the color rendering of my chart in this particular region created confusion.  I used 357x some for this one, but it was really beyond what the seeing was supporting.  I could not maintain adequate focus on 16+ mag stars past about 278x.  

 

I also tracked down UGC 6659 NE of the group.  This is a face on spiral (based on images) and was somewhat more challenging than Kiso 5639 despite being nominally brighter in overall magnitude.  It's surface brightness is noticeably poorer.  It was more of an AV object, although held that way.

 

With the group getting low between trees, I did a brief exploration of the adjacent Abell 1336 galaxy cluster at 278x without a chart.  Uranometria DSFG lists the 10th brightest member as 16th mag.   There seemed to be a lot there, but I had not made a finder chart of the region, and didn't sketch it, so I don't have ID's of the ones definitely seen.  (There are foreground galaxies as well that were not bright enough for Uranometria.)  I could spend several hours searching for members and foreground galaxies if the patch of sky was well placed overhead instead of down in the trees.  Wrong time of year for this...  Nearby, about a degree and a half to the SE, Abell 1365 is of similar nature.

 

Anyway,  lots to see in the area with sufficiently large aperture (and some preparation to locate/identify what all is there for the picking.)


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#18 Keith Rivich

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 02:58 PM

Took a look at Kiso5639 last night at our dark site. 70 miles west of Houston. Conditions were pretty good with a light north wind, low humidity and decent seeing. 25" scope. Not to difficult. Couldn't quite make out the HII region as a separate entity. Pretty much an elongated smudge. Tried going to 800x but the seeing suffered a bit at that power. 

 

We are going to try again tonight in Larry's 36". Just a few FOV's away is a nice Arp pair. Don't have my notes or charts so I can't tell you which Arp. I'll update tomorrow. 


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#19 SNH

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 04:49 PM

Kiso 5639 is one of the most beautiful world's galaxies.

The galaxy, located 82 million light-years away, has taken billions of years to develop because it has been drifting through an isolated “desert” in the universe, devoid of much gas.

Question: Can someone observe it with amateur telescope?

Thanks a lot!

George

attachicon.giffirework.jpg

George,

I'm curious as to how you learned about this obscure galaxy?

 

 

I'll give it a go this weekend in the 25". If that doesn't work I'll hijack Larry's 36" for a few minutes. grin.gif

I would be very interested in what is the smallest aperture that the galaxy itself is visible. I ask because I've been studying it for a project and have been able to detect the H-II knot with my 10-inch SCT.

 

Thanks,

Scott
 



#20 Redbetter

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 08:05 PM

Didn't have the 10" Dob with me to try to see the galaxy, but would have expected to see the combined light in it.  I don't know what it would take to see the main body separate from the brighter head.  It probably would depend a great deal on conditions:  darkness/transparency/seeing so I generally approach such things considering a "normal" best case based one what I typically have.  That would be SQM-L of 21.65+, seeing supporting at least 300x, clear/dry sky with no haze or dust.   Exceptional conditions would allow profitable use of 500x and very clear at ~21.8 MPSAS.   

 

On a side note about these galaxies:  something I have noticed in the images of the companion (WAS 27 = Mrk 746 = CGCG 186-025 = PGC 36279) is that it appears to have a close double core in PANSTARRS.  It could be an interposed MW star, but the structure is such that I suspect it is real.   Separation center-to-center appears to be about 3 arc seconds and this is not something I noticed visually.   The western component appears slightly brighter.   Overall shape suggests the cores of two galaxies very close together (perhaps considerably more distant because of line of sight limitations.)   Tight zoom shows hints of two nearly perpendicular orientations.  This would explain my confused impression of the overall structure.  



#21 sunnyday

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 08:07 PM

very nice object , love the colors .

yhanks .



#22 sgottlieb

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 04:25 PM

I had an opportunity to observe Kiso 5639 = KUG 1138+327 on Tuesday night with my 24" under SQM 21.45 skies.

 

At 225x I found the emission knot at the east end stood out more prominently than the main body itself.  I also found, as Jimi mentioned, a contrast gain (though fairly small) by blinking the knot with a DGM galaxy filter, which I haven't used in ages!  Increasing to 375x, I found the low surface brightness 3:1 body more obvious than the knot, which was barely non-stellar.

 

I'm glad Redbetter mentioned nearby NGC 3786/3788 (Arp 294 = VV 228) which I hadn't looked at in quite awhile.  Last time was in 2004 when NGC 3786 had a supernova (SN 2004bd).  NGC 3788 was quite an interesting galaxy with a bright spiral arc at the northern edge of the galaxy and a darker dust lane just inside.  I didn't take a look at the fainter nearby galaxies.


Edited by sgottlieb, 18 June 2020 - 04:27 PM.

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