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Explore Scientific Eyepieces

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#1 gervase

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 03:51 PM

I have noticed that the Explore Scientific Eyepieces are now commanding close to the acquisition price of the Televue line.  How many people have experience with this line of EPs and are they worth it?  I can see spending $300-$400 for the Televue quality but these are China made and I am curious to know how they perform.   Thanks all. 



#2 SeattleScott

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 05:11 PM

Explore Scientific based their reputation on providing 90% of the performance of TV (most of the time anyway) for half the price. But yeah they aren’t half the price anymore. Not unless they are on sale, and maybe not even then. Are you willing to pay 67% for 90% of the performance? Shoot some of their ultrawides cost as much or more than some highly regarded hyperwides. From what I hear the APM/SV hyperwides are just as good, maybe better, and lighter and cheaper than ES. Meade UWA are significantly cheaper and their reputation is just as good. Ok heavier but a bit better ER. When ES 82 series were $99 they built a fan base similar to Apple donating computers to schools. And it also kept potential competitors from entering the space. Similar to how these SaaS vendors start out losing money, copying the features and functionality of top software companies for half the price. Once they steal enough customers from the industry leaders they raise their prices. For a couple years my company enjoyed a top tier system for half the price. Then one year the price went up 60% with the new release. I asked what these expensive new features were and they said they added a few keyboard shortcuts or something. Basically they were at the point where they could raise the price so they did. ES did the same thing. Flood the market and build a reputation as an industry leader, then raise the price. They just did it more gradually. Not accusing them of unfair business practices or anything. But that’s what they did, and where they are now.

Are they worth it? Well you still get near-TV performance for the most part, at a considerable discount. They aren’t the bargain they once were. I think at this point most people won’t buy an ES unless it is on sale. Partly because their eyepieces are on sale about 8 months out of 12. At full retail I think a lot of people would just spend a bit more for TV, or go with a lower cost competitor like Meade or UWAN.

Scott
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#3 Starman1

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 06:52 PM

Wait a second.  I'll quote regular prices.

TeleVue 50° eyepieces, $96-$244

ES 52° $80-$160

 

TeleVue 62°: $256

ES 62°: $110-$210

 

TeleVue 68°: $250-$526

ES 68°: $180-$390

 

TeleVue 82° $321-$666

ES 82°: $200-$370

 

TeleVue 100°: $590-$854

ES 100°: $450-$550, with one unique oddball at $850 that has no TeleVue equivalent

 

So, analyzing:

50°--ES is somewhat less expensive and has a wider focal length range.

62°--All the sizes of ES are less than TeleVue

68°--about 25% less for ES

72°--no ES equivalent

82°--the 1.25" ES are about 63% less and the 2" are 56% less.

92°--no TeleVue equivalent

100°--all the sizes of ES are less than TeleVue by an average of 25% except that one unique entry.

120°--no TeleVue equivalent

 

I think the prices are now more reflective of the true costs of production than they were back then.

It's a standard pattern: sell at or below cost to buy market share, then slowly raise prices to reality.

I'm seeing it play out now with other companies.


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#4 sunnyday

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 07:01 PM

the es are excellent eyepieces.
the same for tv's with a big plus.
many compare the es as tv's copies.
if you have the budget, televue by far.


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#5 SeattleScott

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 07:02 PM

Yes a common business model. How Amazon was built.

So yeah ES is roughly 60-70% of TV prices. If you get them on sale you might get them at 50% of TV prices, at least for certain models. Is that enough of a discount to keep people from buying TV? Is it too much more than Meade and others? Idk seems like it might be a good balance.

Scott
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#6 Jethro7

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 07:27 PM

I have noticed that the Explore Scientific Eyepieces are now commanding close to the acquisition price of the Televue line.  How many people have experience with this line of EPs and are they worth it?  I can see spending $300-$400 for the Televue quality but these are China made and I am curious to know how they perform.   Thanks all. 

Hello, 

I have a mix of both TV and ES eyepieces, do I think TV's are worth the price. Mostly yes. The only exception was ES 20mm 100°, yes the TV 21mm Ethos has a little bit better contrast than the ES but in my opinion was not at twice the price. The TV 31mm NT5 is my favorite eyepiece that I have. When I look into it the views just pop, the ES 30mm you have to work yourself into the view.  ES's are fine eyepieces and will serve you well. I just prefer the Televue's. The cost is not that much more  really, if you are like me and only use a handful of eyepieces anyway.

TV 10mm Ethos, 

TV  17mm Panoptic

ES 20mm 100° 

TV 31mm Nagler type 5

TV 55mm Plossl

These are my goto's

I have a set of ES's a 6mm 52° and a ES 3mm 52°  that I use for collimating only. 

The one caveat I have for you if you are interested in 100° eyepieces, try one before you buy, they are not for everyone. When you look through one it may feel like you can fall into the eyepiece and out into space. 

You can take Don Pensacks word for the Gospel on eyepieces. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


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#7 mr_snout

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 08:30 PM

I am glad I made the shooting investment I did two years ago, coupled with sales. Might be priced out these days.
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#8 gervase

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 09:48 PM

Based on what I am reading here it seems like these EPs are worth a shot.  I have a hodgepodge of EPs from different mfg and I would like to settle on a good quality piece of glass that will give me the views without breaking the bank.  I thank you all for your input.  And it looks like Don got a nice reference so I'm bookmarking him for future reference.  


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#9 Jethro7

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 09:52 PM

Based on what I am reading here it seems like these EPs are worth a shot.  I have a hodgepodge of EPs from different mfg and I would like to settle on a good quality piece of glass that will give me the views without breaking the bank.  I thank you all for your input.  And it looks like Don got a nice reference so I'm bookmarking him for future reference.  

You wont be disappointed.


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#10 Volvonium

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:01 PM

I've not been disappointed with any of my ES eyepieces and have never felt like they weren't worth what was paid, new or used.  Even with their pricing currently scaled up, compared with what I might have paid a year and half ago, I still think many of the lines offer compelling value, particularly if the lifetime warranty is factored in.

 

They're not perfect, and some show aberrations at the very edges of the FOV...but they're quite good.  My sole ES92 12mm is something that I would regard as a nearly perfect eyepiece, other than its hefty weight.    I've tried ES68, ES82, ES92, and ES100.   


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#11 Rock22

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:52 PM

I like the ES eyepieces I have. I think they are worth buying and trying out.

 

I started with the 14mm 82-deg in the summer not long after starting this hobby in spring 2017, and the wide view allowed me to look at the moon and planets for a longer time than was possible with the 52-deg Plossls I had.  I have now moved onto mostly 100-deg eyepieces for wide-field views.

 

I think they are a very good option to consider, especially when trying to find an eyepiece that fits my scope and my eyesight.



#12 Ernest_SPB

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 01:52 AM

I like both. Televue gadgets for their perfectness, ES - for their price.


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#13 Gazpacho

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 02:30 AM

I have been perfectly happy with mine. Got more than a few. Right now I am collecting the 52 series, starting from the 3mm.
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#14 Supernova74

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 03:01 AM

if you go green you will not go to far wrong I sold all my ES eyepieces apart from one which is the ES 40mm 68 degree eyepiece the ES series is cloned to a certain level on the nagler televues.(why have satin when you can have silk) of course budget pending.on the negative side with the Exsplore scientific 82 degrees eyepeice series I owned the 24mm was,nt cheap by a long shot however introduced quite a lot of false colour (Achromatic Aberration) looked like the eyepiece had jaundice.especially on near full phase of the moon apparently you guys in the stares call it (The ring of fire ) very Johny cash.my dealer said it was normal for the 82 degree line up of eyepieces which I strongly disagree with as apparently the elements have ED glass (no false colour) what makes things worse is my Meade has ACF (coma free) so should eliminate any false colour what’s so ever.

 

i just feel that the ES don,t have the strict quality control through the production line as Televue has as the company just concentrates on making eyepieces only apart from a few scopes.on the other side of the coin The ES are great for the price and do Come close contrast wise and have proved as an alternative from Televue.however when I first brought my first Televue eyepiece I did notice improvements ie tack sharp veiws to the edge mostly colour seemed more vibrant especially on stars.


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#15 25585

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 05:23 AM

ES92s are excellent. They are game changers if you need to wear glasses for viewing, but excellent optically anyway.  


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#16 rkelley8493

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 12:50 PM

I have noticed that the Explore Scientific Eyepieces are now commanding close to the acquisition price of the Televue line.  How many people have experience with this line of EPs and are they worth it?  I can see spending $300-$400 for the Televue quality but these are China made and I am curious to know how they perform.   Thanks all. 

Some Explore Sci eyepieces are very close to the performance of their TeleVue counterparts, but not all. I'll give a few examples.

 

Explore Sci 100° vs TeleVue Ethos:

ES 9/100 & 14/100 were both very close to the performance of TV 10E & 13E. The 13E was sharper on edge, but the 14/100 was easier for me to hold the exit pupil while viewing. The 9/100 was sharp to the edge and very, very close to the performance of the 10E. I'd call it a toss up between the 9mm & 10mm.

The ES 20/100 was not on the same level as the 14 & 9. There were a lot of issues with light scatter with this eyepiece. This was a lopsided win for the 21E. It had better color rendition, darker sky background, and better performance all around.

 

Explore Sci 82° vs TeleVue Nagler:

The 30/82° was very close in performance to the 31T5, but the 31T5 had a tad better color rendition, darker sky background, and higher light transmission. The edge performance was better on the 31T5, but it displayed some pincushion distortion that's clearly visible when slewing the scope. The 30/82° did not show the same pincushioning, but there was some slight flaring of the stars as they approached the edge. Also, the 30/82° has a recessed eye lens. This helps with blocking out stray light, but it uses up a extra few millimeters in eye relief.

The ES 24/82° was really good and close in performance to the 26T5. However, the 22T4 Nagler [which is one of my absolute favorites] is in a totally different league than the ES 24/82°.

The 18/82° is one of those that you either love it or hate it. I personally was in the 'hate' column, but others say it's the best of the series. It's not a fair comparison between the 18/82° and 17T4 because the T4 Nagler's have a designed long eye relief.

I haven't compared the 1.25" 82° to the Nagler T6's, but I will say that the 8.8mm ES 82° is an excellent performer. It actually had a brighter, sharper image compared to the 9/100°.

 

Explore Sci 92's:

These are a lopsided win for Explore Sci. There's currently only 2 focal lengths [12mm & 17mm], but there really isn't anything else out there like them, except for maybe the Apollo 11mm eyepiece. I much preferred the 12mm & 17mm 92° over the 13E & 17E.

 

Explore Sci 68° vs TV Panoptic:

I haven't used any of the Panoptic's, but the ES 24/68° is a great eyepiece. The 40mm ES 68° was difficult for me to use because of the very long eye relief [30-something millimeters]. I had a lot of trouble with blackouts and holding the exit pupil with this one. 

 

That's all I can think of for now.. I may give a few more examples later to come. 


Edited by rkelley8493, 04 June 2020 - 11:41 AM.

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#17 russell23

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 11:19 PM

I feel that ES eyepieces have raised their prices enough that they are now banging against as good or better competition.  The Morpheus at $239 are better than the ES82.  The 30mm APM UFF at $228 is better than the 34mm ES 68 and long FL ES62. The APM XWA are slightly better than the ES100 and only cost $249.  


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#18 CeleNoptic

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 04:09 AM

I have noticed that the Explore Scientific Eyepieces are now commanding close to the acquisition price of the Televue line.  How many people have experience with this line of EPs and are they worth it?  I can see spending $300-$400 for the Televue quality but these are China made and I am curious to know how they perform.   Thanks all. 

 

IMO, current pricing makes TeleVue a better value for the money if buying used, e.g. from classifieds. TeleVue EPs are optically better and used they cost not much more than new ES EPs. They have better resale value so you can easily overhaul your lineup whenever you want without losing money. YMMV.


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#19 BillP

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 05:45 PM

IMO, current pricing makes TeleVue a better value for the money if buying used, e.g. from classifieds. TeleVue EPs are optically better and used they cost not much more than new ES EPs. They have better resale value so you can easily overhaul your lineup whenever you want without losing money. YMMV.

I think it all just depends what eyepiece types the buyer may gravitate to.  For many, like myself, they are more interested in the 1.25" 68 and 82 degree eyepieces.  Small form factor, good wide fields, not pricey.  So looking at so many folks just getting their first more premium eyepieces they are often guided towards things like a 24mm 68 degree as a maxTFOV 1.25", and then some shorter focal length 82 degree eyepieces.  When looking at these, the difference in price is a LOT for the TVs vs. the ES.  So ES vs. TV price for the 24mm 68 degree is $159 vs. $321, so ES is about half the cost.  Then looking at the 1.25" 82s it is generally $199 vs. $320, so ES is about 2/3rds the cost.  And given the optical quality is really about 95% there (if not more), the value for the money easily goes to ES.  I have purchased a lot of both brandings over the years.  With each brand only had issues with 1, so the QC is quite good on both IME.

 

As far as optical performance, well again all just depends.  With the ES I see a little more neutral tone and a little more scatter.  Contrast just as good on either.  In faster scopes the very far off-axis just a little better controlled many times on the TV.  But if one used f/6 or longer, or an SCT at f/10, not any off-axis difference to write home about.  So basically it really is just a tad more scatter on the ES generally, and a bit warmer tone on the TV generally, and either of those is just a tad when you are looking for it.


Edited by BillP, 04 June 2020 - 05:49 PM.

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#20 Volvonium

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 06:57 PM

Well, I just added 3 more ES eyepieces to my lineup and likely fated SoCal to overcast conditions for the next few nights.  I ordered ES52 in 3mm, 4.5mm, and 6.5mm from Don @ htttp://www.EyepiecesEtc.com.  I also ordered a Pentax XW 3.5mm from him.    I don't expect the ES52 to perform at the level of the Pentax XW... but at $67 a pop, I couldn't resist giving the ES52 a try.    The Pentax XW, while a wildly different design from the ES52, will be a good to compare with at the high end, since the XW is likely in the highest echelons of eyepiece performance at that focal length.   At the low end of the perceived quality spectrum, I have an el cheapo no name 6mm 66 degree "goldline" to compare them with, where those usually go for $30-$40 a piece new.

 

The appeal of these ES52 is that they are quite inexpensive brand new, but well built, featuring waterproof argon purging, comfortable eye relief, and respectable performance that's expected of ES.   I'm a big fan of Televue Plossl, but eye relief gets tight at the shorter focal lengths.  These ES52 have similar FOV as a plossl, but more comfortable eye relief owing to a slightly different design.   They should make for a good grab and go medium to high power kit for my Tele Vue 4" f/5.4 and 80mm f/7 APO refractors and those scopes should be a good match in putting the ES52 through their paces.    At $67 each new, I'm ok to roll the dice!


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#21 cupton

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 12:58 PM

Well, I just added 3 more ES eyepieces to my lineup and likely fated SoCal to overcast conditions for the next few nights.  I ordered ES52 in 3mm, 4.5mm, and 6.5mm from Don @ htttp://www.EyepiecesEtc.com.  I also ordered a Pentax XW 3.5mm from him.    I don't expect the ES52 to perform at the level of the Pentax XW... but at $67 a pop, I couldn't resist giving the ES52 a try.    The Pentax XW, while a wildly different design from the ES52, will be a good to compare with at the high end, since the XW is likely in the highest echelons of eyepiece performance at that focal length.   At the low end of the perceived quality spectrum, I have an el cheapo no name 6mm 66 degree "goldline" to compare them with, where those usually go for $30-$40 a piece new.

 

The appeal of these ES52 is that they are quite inexpensive brand new, but well built, featuring waterproof argon purging, comfortable eye relief, and respectable performance that's expected of ES.   I'm a big fan of Televue Plossl, but eye relief gets tight at the shorter focal lengths.  These ES52 have similar FOV as a plossl, but more comfortable eye relief owing to a slightly different design.   They should make for a good grab and go medium to high power kit for my Tele Vue 4" f/5.4 and 80mm f/7 APO refractors and those scopes should be a good match in putting the ES52 through their paces.    At $67 each new, I'm ok to roll the dice!

Would love your thought on the new ES 52's when you've had some time with them. The 4.5 is next on my list to use with my ED80 for the moon and planets.


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#22 Starjedi

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 02:07 PM

Explore Scientific based their reputation on providing 90% of the performance of TV (most of the time anyway) for half the price. But yeah they aren’t half the price anymore. Not unless they are on sale, and maybe not even then. Are you willing to pay 67% for 90% of the performance? Shoot some of their ultrawides cost as much or more than some highly regarded hyperwides. From what I hear the APM/SV hyperwides are just as good, maybe better, and lighter and cheaper than ES. Meade UWA are significantly cheaper and their reputation is just as good. Ok heavier but a bit better ER. When ES 82 series were $99 they built a fan base similar to Apple donating computers to schools. And it also kept potential competitors from entering the space. Similar to how these SaaS vendors start out losing money, copying the features and functionality of top software companies for half the price. Once they steal enough customers from the industry leaders they raise their prices. For a couple years my company enjoyed a top tier system for half the price. Then one year the price went up 60% with the new release. I asked what these expensive new features were and they said they added a few keyboard shortcuts or something. Basically they were at the point where they could raise the price so they did. ES did the same thing. Flood the market and build a reputation as an industry leader, then raise the price. They just did it more gradually. Not accusing them of unfair business practices or anything. But that’s what they did, and where they are now.

Are they worth it? Well you still get near-TV performance for the most part, at a considerable discount. They aren’t the bargain they once were. I think at this point most people won’t buy an ES unless it is on sale. Partly because their eyepieces are on sale about 8 months out of 12. At full retail I think a lot of people would just spend a bit more for TV, or go with a lower cost competitor like Meade or UWAN.

Scott

Note that U.S and China are in a trade war where U.S charges most of the China goods 25% tax.      This should be the main reason for the price increase of ES recently.    


Edited by Starjedi, 05 June 2020 - 02:08 PM.

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#23 RLK1

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:33 PM

I'm considering the ES 6.5mm 52AFOV so I checked some of the reviews available on CN and elswhere on the internet. The down side: two observers reporting glare on lunar observations, and a review noting distortion in daylight ground targets:

https://star-hunter....ic-ler-52-65/  

Kind of ify, based upon the above review, any comments?



#24 BKBrown

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 09:50 PM

I bought all of the ES82s before the very first price hike making them fantastic value-for-money purchases, same with the first three ES100s. Being able to compare them to the TV 82 EPs in my case I believe the ES EPs hold up quite well with a slight lead in edge performance to the TVs (in general). But honestly, I don't have a scope slower than f/6 and, except for a touch of scatter, don't notice a significant difference between the two lines...except in what I paid for them smile.png

 

Clear Skies,

Brian snoopy2.gif



#25 phillip

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 02:48 AM

Likely an isolated case, but my ES 6.5mm 52 gave a soft image on planet view. Tried several nights thinking was sky as 200X on my modest XT8i.

 

Purchased a 6mm Takahashi ortho recently as Starbase series just $56. Aha image was very sharp in the decent sky. The small pinhole view isn't for everyone, but low issue for me. Does take crowding of eyepiece to near a full view. They do have lower power in this Starbase series, curious to check some out. 

 

My Baader 10mm ortho is near exceptional sharp view, use it often on planets especially w/degraded sky when drop of power needed.

 

My lower power ES are fine tho, and enjoy them. 

 

Clear Sky

 

ETX90

XT10, XT8i

Clave 8mm, Pentax 7.5mm, Takahashi 6mm ortho, Nagler 4.8mm




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