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AT92 vs AT102EDL for visual only

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#26 Jond105

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 11:52 AM

Few weeks, well, yeah, three months??? I do hope not any later than about Labor Day, as I would like to have it in time for the best of the Mars opposition window. But if it's later I'll get to find out what the mighty AT60ED can really do, instead, lol.

Ill be honest, when they hit the market, I’ll probably sell off my scope and a few accessories to get one of these. The scariness of CA in their regular 102ED, always kept me away. This one may finally be the one. 


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#27 TNmike

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:21 PM

I've been super impressed by the lack of CA in my AT60ED; I don't know how they do it. And my eyes are fairly sensitive to aberrations. I don't think I've seen anyone with that scope report seeing CA. Therefore I am confident about the new scope, should be awesome. A few years back I had bought a 90mm Orion achro, nice scope but the CA sent me on the path to towards ED/APOs, and I sold the Orion.



#28 Echolight

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 04:23 PM

I'd actually like an "AT92ED" f/7 doublet. As I don't intend to spend nearly 2 g's on a grab and go scope.

 

Something with a little more pop than an 80. With a little less size and weight than a 4 inch for easier mounting and better portability.

 

As ideally, I'd only ever have three scopes. All for visual.

 

I got my goto yard cannon for bright stuff and maybe some open clusters in my outer-suburban backyard. Possibly star parties if I ever went to one. And aside from the power requirements could go along for the ride anywhere.

 

Then I'd like to get a small/mid-size dob for grab-n-go darksite galaxy/nebula/glob scope.

 

And finally a more multi-purpose quick-look/more portable grab-n-go/widefield with a possibility of some long exposure snapshots on the AVX scope in the fictional "AT92ED" that would probably end up being my most used scope because of it's ease of use.


Edited by Echolight, 13 June 2020 - 04:24 PM.


#29 Echolight

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 04:41 PM

Thanks everyone for your comments. I made my question rather general so as to get the broadest range of opinions, whereas if I told you my situation the comments might have been "steered" more. In any case here is my lot in life.

 

With some sadness, I have sold my SW120ED/DSV-3/Oberwerk tripod combination. My old body is going down hill faster than I would like, and that combo was a little more than I liked to have to handle. Plus, I live in a doublewide and the doors are somewhat narrow, thus not making it easy to get it all out of my man cave into the great outdoors. Therefore I determined it would be wise to downsize to a setup that is about 2/3 the size and weight of the 120ED combo, max. I thought that would hopefully work for the long haul. I presently have an AT60ED which isn't going anywhere soon, it's lots of fun. But I was thinking a larger scope, 4" max, for my "big" scope. It seems I can reach my 2/3 goal at that size. I'm visual (lunar-planetary primarily, but also DSOs) only, but do want a really good affordable ED/APO, therefore I had been looking at the AT102EDL and AT92. I actually have the AT102EDL on order, but wanted to do one final gut check as both models will be in at Astronomics at the same time, and could change my mind and order if need be.

 

The bottom line is I will stay with the AT102EDL. After seeing all the comments and considering all the pros and cons, the 102 wins for my situation, but by only by a little. The shorter length and lighter weight of the 92 are attractive, but the longer cool down and price are negatives. The short FL giving more FC is not a big problem as I have good eyepieces and already have some experience with it from the AT60ED. The CA of either scope should be virtually undetectable except to the most experienced eyes. I am confident from the magic they did with the AT60ED that CA will not be a problem in the AT102EDL. The extra 10mm aperture will certainly be helpful too. So, I've got to patiently wait a few weeks until she arrives.

 

Again, thanks to all; good discussion.

In this case, I'd certainly choose the 102.



#30 25585

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:05 AM

Ill be honest, when they hit the market, I’ll probably sell off my scope and a few accessories to get one of these. The scariness of CA in their regular 102ED, always kept me away. This one may finally be the one. 

You only just got it!



#31 Jond105

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 08:30 AM

You only just got it!


By the time these hit the market I would have had it for a few months though.

#32 csrlice12

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 09:22 AM

No CA, no FC, can do planets or DSOs, Easily out the door(in two trips).....Dob territory.



#33 russell23

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 09:27 AM

By the time these hit the market I would have had it for a few months though.

Sorry if I missed this:  Is there a reason you are thinking of moving from your 100mm f/9 to a 100mm f/7?   Personally, I  really like the f/7 focal ratio and the sliding dewshield and the focuser.  But optically I would not expect much difference between the f/9 and the f/7 based upon glass types and reputations (SV Access and WO Z103 presumably very close to the new AT102 EDL).   So are you thinking wider fields and something easier to mount/transport?

 

Dave


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#34 Jond105

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 09:48 AM

Sorry if I missed this:  Is there a reason you are thinking of moving from your 100mm f/9 to a 100mm f/7?   Personally, I  really like the f/7 focal ratio and the sliding dewshield and the focuser.  But optically I would not expect much difference between the f/9 and the f/7 based upon glass types and reputations (SV Access and WO Z103 presumably very close to the new AT102 EDL).   So are you thinking wider fields and something easier to mount/transport?

 

Dave

Mainly the ergonomics. Sliding dew shield, keeps momentum arm down, still should hit 300x no issue(hopefully). 


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#35 russell23

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 10:02 AM

Mainly the ergonomics. Sliding dew shield, keeps momentum arm down, still should hit 300x no issue(hopefully). 

Those are aspects I really like with my SV102 Access.   It is very stable on my Vixen SP mount with the wood tripod legs.  And if I want I can carry the scope and tripod in and out in one trip.  I've been doing that - especially at the end of an observing session.   And at the end of the session I leave the dew shield extended when I carry it in and it still fits easily through the door.  

 

With my SW120 ED between weight and length I don't dare carry it in and out the door on the mount.

 

I've had my SV102 Access at 100x and it handles it just fine.  I actually had it at around 425x on the Moon and it was very good.  Most of the time on the Moon I use it at ~140-160x but it is nice to know that the objective can handle more if I want.


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#36 Jond105

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 10:09 AM

Those are aspects I really like with my SV102 Access.   It is very stable on my Vixen SP mount with the wood tripod legs.  And if I want I can carry the scope and tripod in and out in one trip.  I've been doing that - especially at the end of an observing session.   And at the end of the session I leave the dew shield extended when I carry it in and it still fits easily through the door.  

 

With my SW120 ED between weight and length I don't dare carry it in and out the door on the mount.

 

I've had my SV102 Access at 100x and it handles it just fine.  I actually had it at around 425x on the Moon and it was very good.  Most of the time on the Moon I use it at ~140-160x but it is nice to know that the objective can handle more if I want.

Had I of had the money during the close out, I would’ve purchased the Stellarvue access 102. At the time I had the SW120ED. So seen no use for it. I’m liking it didn’t take long for the market to come back with something as similar to the access. I’ll always move everything in two trips, just cause my mount with the pier extension alone makes it 15-20 lbs depending on the head I have on it at the time. I love splitting double so I like something that can take high mag while giving the clean split in my refractor. This is one I feel can do this as good as the SW100ED. 


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#37 RAKing

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 11:45 AM

Thanks everyone for your comments. I made my question rather general so as to get the broadest range of opinions, whereas if I told you my situation the comments might have been "steered" more. In any case here is my lot in life.

 

With some sadness, I have sold my SW120ED/DSV-3/Oberwerk tripod combination. My old body is going down hill faster than I would like, and that combo was a little more than I liked to have to handle. Plus, I live in a doublewide and the doors are somewhat narrow, thus not making it easy to get it all out of my man cave into the great outdoors. Therefore I determined it would be wise to downsize to a setup that is about 2/3 the size and weight of the 120ED combo, max. I thought that would hopefully work for the long haul. I presently have an AT60ED which isn't going anywhere soon, it's lots of fun. But I was thinking a larger scope, 4" max, for my "big" scope. It seems I can reach my 2/3 goal at that size. I'm visual (lunar-planetary primarily, but also DSOs) only, but do want a really good affordable ED/APO, therefore I had been looking at the AT102EDL and AT92. I actually have the AT102EDL on order, but wanted to do one final gut check as both models will be in at Astronomics at the same time, and could change my mind and order if need be.

 

The bottom line is I will stay with the AT102EDL. After seeing all the comments and considering all the pros and cons, the 102 wins for my situation, but by only by a little. The shorter length and lighter weight of the 92 are attractive, but the longer cool down and price are negatives. The short FL giving more FC is not a big problem as I have good eyepieces and already have some experience with it from the AT60ED. The CA of either scope should be virtually undetectable except to the most experienced eyes. I am confident from the magic they did with the AT60ED that CA will not be a problem in the AT102EDL. The extra 10mm aperture will certainly be helpful too. So, I've got to patiently wait a few weeks until she arrives.

 

Again, thanks to all; good discussion.

 

I think you will enjoy the more "modern" designed AT 102 a lot compared to the older design of the SW 120.  A sliding dewshield will certainly help you navigate tight corners and hallways easier.  Plus, the much better dual-speed focuser means you don't have to shell out extra money to upgrade that bargain basement unit that comes with the SW.

 

The new AT won't be here until Labor Day, but I suggest you keep an eye out for something in the classified ads while you wait.  You never know what might show up.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron


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#38 TNmike

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 02:45 PM

"The new AT won't be here until Labor Day, but I suggest you keep an eye out for something in the classified ads while you wait.  You never know what might show up."

 

Ron, yeah I'm actually doing that, but hoping the AT102EDL comes in reasonably on schedule. I think it will be a close to perfect scope for me.


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#39 25585

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 04:51 AM

Mainly the ergonomics. Sliding dew shield, keeps momentum arm down, still should hit 300x no issue(hopefully). 

There must be Eons & Equinoxes out there for sale. Or the StellarMira 104mm   https://www.firstlig...-telescope.html

 

https://youtu.be/AB-KFLi9-rw


Edited by 25585, 15 June 2020 - 04:55 AM.

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#40 Echolight

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 09:55 AM

There must be Eons & Equinoxes out there for sale. Or the StellarMira 104mm   https://www.firstlig...-telescope.html

 

https://youtu.be/AB-KFLi9-rw

Diggin that Eon 110!



#41 dusty99

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 12:28 PM

There isn't much CA in the AT102ED.

 

 

The scariness of CA in their regular 102ED, always kept me away.


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#42 Jond105

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 01:02 PM

There isn't much CA in the AT102ED.

The word “much” I where I fear. It’s why I would wait for the better glass and use the 100ED until then though. It’s just a preference of my own is all. 


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#43 gwlee

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 01:59 PM

Last year, faced with a similar 92mm vs 102mm decision, I went with a 92mm. The 92mm was a couple of pounds lighter, and it was shorter. Being shorter, I didn’t need to add an ~3# extension column to my mount to prevent the scope contacting the tripod legs when pointed at the zenith. So, all together I saved about 5# and some bulk by going with the 92mm. 

 

Expect my mount would work well with either, but expect it’s a bit more solid with the shorter and lighter scope too, but haven’t had the opportunity to to a side-by-side comparison. I definitely gave up 10mm of aperture,  which meant I gave up a little resolution and little light gathering, and had to accept a little more field curvature. Expect my EPs would work equally well in either scope. Might try to get my hands on an AT102EDL when they are available to validate my “expects.” 


Edited by gwlee, 27 June 2020 - 02:05 PM.

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#44 Echolight

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 02:09 PM

I have a 6 inch refractor and would like a grab and go that would be stable on a small mount. So a 92 might be at about the upper limit and that's what I would choose.

 

But I don't think I would buy one because I'd rather have an f/7.5 80ed and an 8 or 10" dob, and an eyepiece or two for that money.


Edited by Echolight, 27 June 2020 - 02:16 PM.

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#45 Jethro7

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 11:14 AM

Which would you go with, and why??? Each has their pluses, and a couple minuses. Let the games begin.

Hello Mike,

Just a update from my last post. Last night I  set up my AT 102 ED, Seeing conditions were pretty poor with thin clouds here and there, Saharan dust suspended high up in the atmosphere. So I was not expecting much. I wanted to finally try out my new Baader Hyperion  8X24 Mark IV Zoom with the Barlow.I was really surprised at the performance of this little telescope. Viewing the Moon, the views were none the less spectacular even at 200X. On Jupiter, I had to back off the power a bit but could still make out the banding and red spot along with the Gallileans. Totally impressed with the AT 102ED. I will do a mini review on the Baader Zoom and Barlow when I have good seeing conditions. For what it is worth I think the AT102ED and The Baader Zoom will prove to be a perfect match.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


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#46 TNmike

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 12:28 PM

Jethro, glad you are enjoying the AT102ED, as are dozens of other happy owners. I have my order in for the AT102EDL, and unless I decide to go for something a little smaller, it should be awesome. I'm 64 and not getting any younger, and need a fairly small and moderately light weight package. So I have been also looking at alternatives that are smaller/lighter than the 102, just in case I feel I need to go that way. Chances are 9 out of 10 this will be my last telescope purchase. While I have bought and sold some different eyepieces, I am not one to do the same with scopes. I'm wanting to get down to a fairly settled scope and eyepiece situation for the long haul. There will always be bigger, and there will always be better, but sooner or later just got to get out there and observe and enjoy with what you have. This is a wonderful time we are in with so many good choices of equipment. Shoot, a really good 60mm like my AT60ED would have been unreal to have in place of my Sears 60mm when I was a kid, lol.

 

Clear skies!


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#47 Jethro7

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 02:10 PM

Jethro, glad you are enjoying the AT102ED, as are dozens of other happy owners. I have my order in for the AT102EDL, and unless I decide to go for something a little smaller, it should be awesome. I'm 64 and not getting any younger, and need a fairly small and moderately light weight package. So I have been also looking at alternatives that are smaller/lighter than the 102, just in case I feel I need to go that way. Chances are 9 out of 10 this will be my last telescope purchase. While I have bought and sold some different eyepieces, I am not one to do the same with scopes. I'm wanting to get down to a fairly settled scope and eyepiece situation for the long haul. There will always be bigger, and there will always be better, but sooner or later just got to get out there and observe and enjoy with what you have. This is a wonderful time we are in with so many good choices of equipment. Shoot, a really good 60mm like my AT60ED would have been unreal to have in place of my Sears 60mm when I was a kid, lol.

 

Clear skies!

Hello Mike,

I do understand I'm not young any more myself, the AT102 EDL will be a superb performer. I have mine mounted on a Twillight 1 mount now. I would not recommend this mount to any one. It has some bad Engineering. I had to weld a solid bar in the DEC riser for support and rip out the guts of the slow motion gears and rework them to remove the tons of slop.Now the mount is alot more stable. I'm not a Engineer but it makes my head hurt when you realize that the Engineers who designed this mount must have never used a Alt Az mount in their life. I've dealt with these  kind of Engineers that are about as dumb as a bag of hammers in the military,  expensive equipment that does not work or awkward to use in the real world.

Any way this setup is weighs about as much as my C8 SCT by itself about 23 Lbs and is easy to move. It takes me 30min to set up my Losmandy G11G. It takes me 3 min. To set up the AT102ED.I  have a Losmandy AZ8 mount on the way, it should be here in a couple of months. Then I think I will put my C6 on the Twilight 1 mount and give it away to a good home.

 

I think by my Astrotech scope you made a very good decision. If my views are awesome the 102EDT will be totally awesome.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro



#48 gnowellsct

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 03:16 PM

Between these two, you're basically deciding whether you want to optimize on compactness and widefield capabilities or aperture and high-mag capabilities. They'll both do either well, fortunately, but like I said, it's a question of optimization. It's a personal decision, and also depends on what other scopes you have.

 

When I bought my Z103 (an FPL-53 doublet) I did consider the AT92, which was in pre-production at the time. But to me the former seemed like the more balanced scope, and since it was my only scope at the time, I decided to go with the 4" f7. 

 

...

If the point is a refractor and optimization of aperture, one can get the 92mm and stick it on top of a c8 or 9.25.  That way there is some light gathering and that nice apo effect for wide fields.  One can do it with the 102 as well, but it is more of a challenge to operate on top of an SCT.   

 

 

 

GN



#49 Chesterguy1

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 03:26 PM

I really like my SW 120 ED, but I know what you are saying about weight and length. I actually don’t trust it on my UA Deluxe, but it’s a great match for the Ioptron AZMP (although I have to carry it in pieces and the 120mm require two 10 pound CWs so it’s a bit taxing and definitely not a G & G setup). It’s one reason I’m glad I have held onto the Vixen 90FL all these years; even with the new MoonLite focuser it weighs roughly 1/2 the SW 120 and is fantastic on the moon and doubles. At f/9 it’s only about 5-6’ shorter than the SW and neither have a retractable dewshield. Yes, it does have a narrower fov than some of the other scopes discussed.

 

90mm never has me longing for a 100 mm, but I do have the 120mm and can still haul it around...for now.

 

Chesterguy


Edited by Chesterguy1, 28 June 2020 - 03:28 PM.


#50 TNmike

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 05:19 PM

Hello Mike,

I do understand I'm not young any more myself, the AT102 EDL will be a superb performer. I have mine mounted on a Twillight 1 mount now. I would not recommend this mount to any one. It has some bad Engineering. I had to weld a solid bar in the DEC riser for support and rip out the guts of the slow motion gears and rework them to remove the tons of slop.Now the mount is alot more stable. I'm not a Engineer but it makes my head hurt when you realize that the Engineers who designed this mount must have never used a Alt Az mount in their life. I've dealt with these  kind of Engineers that are about as dumb as a bag of hammers in the military,  expensive equipment that does not work or awkward to use in the real world.

Any way this setup is weighs about as much as my C8 SCT by itself about 23 Lbs and is easy to move. It takes me 30min to set up my Losmandy G11G. It takes me 3 min. To set up the AT102ED.I  have a Losmandy AZ8 mount on the way, it should be here in a couple of months. Then I think I will put my C6 on the Twilight 1 mount and give it away to a good home.

 

I think by my Astrotech scope you made a very good decision. If my views are awesome the 102EDT will be totally awesome.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Yeah it's really sad that with just a little more engineering and execution these mass produced mounts could be at least 50% better. And it would only cost another $10. And it's double sad because some of these have been produced for years, yet they keep on producing junk; well, sometimes they turn out ok. But they're so inconsistent. In any case I still think the market is wide open for someone to produce really good mounts that aren't much more than the mass produced ones, and yet considerably less than the premium brands.


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