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Porro prism versus Roof prism?

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#76 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 08:28 PM

Why resist it? wink.gif

 

Fiske

 

I'm a casual bino guy.. I can do 6.6 degrees with an ST-80 with a TSFLAT2 and the 41mm Panoptic, I can use filters and right angle diagonal etc. The field is flat-flat. 

 

For what do, my 10x50 Ultraviews operate at 50 mm aperture, are lighter and are sharp enough off-axis.

 

Now a pair of 10x50 Ultras used for $125.. that would make me real nervious.

 

Jon



#77 Fiske

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 08:39 PM

But when you look at guys spending $2800 for a Swaro 10x50, what is $270 for an OB 10x50 Ultra? Plus, you could sell the current 10x50s (after a suitable comparison interval) to offset the cost. grin.gif

 

Hey, just noticed the NP-101 in your equipment list. Talk about flat-flat!

 

Fiske


Edited by Fiske, 01 January 2021 - 08:42 PM.

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#78 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 08:56 PM

But when you look at guys spending $2800 for a Swaro 10x50, what is $270 for an OB 10x50 Ultra? Plus, you could sell the current 10x50s (after a suitable comparison interval) to offset the cost. grin.gif

 

Hey, just noticed the NP-101 in your equipment list. Talk about flat-flat!

 

Fiske

 

I forgot to add one important fact:

 

I'm cheap... 

 

Jon



#79 Fiske

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 09:22 PM

I forgot to add one important fact:

 

I'm cheap... 

 

Jon

Uh, so you got all that stuff at a garage sale?

 

lol.giflol.giflol.gif

 

22-inch F/4.4 Nova-StarSplitter...

 

waytogo.gif

 

Fiske


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#80 Fiske

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 10:14 PM

To maybe get things a bit more on topic, before a moderator puts the smack down on us, porro versus roof doesn't matter that much for flat out observing. Honestly.

 

I've been wandering around in my astro journals, dating back 20 years, thinking about how to get my observing into a more satisfying and productive mode, and came across an entry from January 5, 2001. (2001, really??) So, almost exactly 20 years ago. Woke up at 3:30 am with a stomach ache, looked out the window and saw the skies were gorgeous (for midtown Kansas City), bundled up and headed out with my trusty 10x50s. And observed M104, M3 (the first DSO I found when I started observing the year before), picked out Leo Minor, then Sextans. Then had a nice long look at M44. Wandered around in Hydra, and ended up with M67, which I was delighted to see despite the light pollution. 

 

My "trusty" 10x50s were Nikon Lookout IVs (porros), which cost about $125 and were not optically great binoculars by any stretch of the imagination. Sure I have moved on to premium bins, and I understand people shelling out top bucks for whatever is the closest thing to optical perfection, but that isn't essential to having a lot of fun with astronomy and seeing a lot of stuff.

 

There was a guy in our club who had limited funds for equipment, and all he could afford was a 4.25 inch kit reflector that was assembled in a class led by ATMers in the club. Anyway, this guy was feeling discouraged because he didn't think he could see anything worthwhile. An experienced older observer in the club told him he could see a lot with it. And helped him start finding DSOs. Then he started hanging out with 3-4 other guys at Powell Observatory (the ASKC observatory) a lot of nights doing NEO follow up research with a CCD camera on the club's 32-inch GEM reflector. The camera was purchased with a $13k grant from NASA. In 2002 Powell did more NEO follow up research than any observatory in the world (professional or private) other than the LINEAR project. :-) And the guy with the 4.25 inch reflector got offered a job at the Minor Planet Center and moved to Boston.

 

So, yeah, premium binoculars are awesome, but being under the night sky with any pair of bins is what matters. 

 

Fiske

 

PS: Not sure how you would turn that into a job at the Minor Planet Center though...


Edited by Fiske, 01 January 2021 - 10:20 PM.

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#81 EverlastingSky

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 10:37 PM

While the SE series has been out of production for many years, in mainland Europe and Great Brittain, the Nikon 7x50 Prostar is still available from Nikon and is currently in stock on their website. It has the most pleasing view I’ve ever seen hand held.

Reminds me of something else EdZ once said in post #9 of the archived 2008 thread Nagler like performance...

 

Curious readers may want to see what else EdZ said on the Nikon 7x50 Prostar, in the same 2008 thread, at post #29. At #33 he states a measured 7.5° not the 7.3° stamped on the binocular itself...

 

 

I recently acquired a Nikon 7x50 Prostar, at long last, to experience their "awesomeness" first hand. I can report that they are indeed rather special. Awesome actually.


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#82 Sagittarius A*

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 11:06 PM

Hi, I am considering buying this used binoculars: 

https://www.worthpoi...tion-1875917173

https://www.cloudyni...-for-parts-225/

(Chinese Military Observation Binoculars 65-25-40 WYJ)

(not the one in the ad but identical) would you please help me by evaluate and compare it to similar binoculars in the market?

I was planning to get Celestron – SkyMaster 20X80 Astro Binoculars as my first binoculars, but the Chinese one looks much bigger for the same price.
Thank you


Edited by Sagittarius A*, 02 January 2021 - 01:05 AM.


#83 Erik Bakker  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 04:34 AM

 

So, yeah, premium binoculars are awesome, but being under the night sky with any pair of bins is what matters. 

 

Fiske

 

 +1  waytogo.gif


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#84 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 04:59 AM

 +1  waytogo.gif

 

+ 2 waytogo.gif

 

A friend and his lady wanted to see the recent Jupiter-Saturn conjunction but didn't have any optics.  I had a pair of the $32 at Walmart Simmons Prosports 10x50 porro's I bought last summer just to remind myself of what they were.  I just handed them to him and away they went.  The previous pair had gone to another friend... 

 

They have been a big hit and it seems he's using them to look at everything, day and night.

 

Jon


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#85 garret

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 05:21 AM

 

While the SE series has been out of production for many years, in mainland Europe and Great Brittain, the Nikon 7x50 Prostar is still available from Nikon and is currently in stock on their website.

Not at the official Dutch importer; Prostaff and Sportstar yes,  but Prostar no.

Maybe still available at a local dealer.



#86 Erik Bakker  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 05:29 AM

Not at the official Dutch importer; Prostaff and Sportstar yes,  but Prostar no.

Maybe still available at a local dealer.

The availability and official names of the high-end porro’s from Nikon are a bit of a mystery. However, the Prostar 7x50 SP and their other two high-end porro 70mm binoculars are still currently available new and in stock as of today from the official Dutch Nikon importer and several other official European Nikon importers who get their supplies from the same Centralized European Nikon Warehouse. Nobody knows for how long of course. These countries get them form this central location, so it only indicates if they are in stock in that centralized warehouse. They are not as easy to find online as their mainstream binoculars, but you will find them at the official Nikon site where they sell their products online directly to the consumer.

 

Please have a look at the official Nikon online store at store.nikon.nl . Here is a link to the 7x50 SP in The Netherlands.

 

Other European countries e.g have the .de or .fr extension instead of .nl. They ship directly from Nikon’s European warehouse to the customer with UPS. Nikon also still has the 10x70 SP and 18x70 in stock in Europe. All 3 of them are listed under Marine Binoculars in the product menu on that site.

 

Note that their is only one version of the 18x70, called on their website  the 18x70IF WP WF, but 18x70 IF.WP on the box.

 

But there are 2 versions of both the 7x50 and 10x70 models, of which you want the best. These best versions only have 7x50 SP or 10x70 SP on their boxes, but are listed on the Nikon website as 7x50IF SP WP and 10x70IF SP WP to add to the mystery. The name Prostar is NOT used on the official Nikon Websites in Europe. The easiest characteristic to recognize all 3 high-end models is by the red stripe around the barrels near the objective.

 

In the UK, you can find the Prostar 7x50 here, with the .co.uk extension to store.nikon . However, in the UK, they do not list the IF SP WP 10x70 or 18x70.


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#87 Erik Bakker  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 06:30 AM

Here are screenshots taken today from the official Nikon Stores in the Netherlands and France:

 

IMG_0429.PNG

 

IMG_0430.PNG



#88 Erik Bakker  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 06:31 AM

And from the Nikon Store in the UK:

 

IMG_0432.PNG



#89 Fiske

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 08:38 AM

+ 2 waytogo.gif

 

A friend and his lady wanted to see the recent Jupiter-Saturn conjunction but didn't have any optics.  I had a pair of the $32 at Walmart Simmons Prosports 10x50 porro's I bought last summer just to remind myself of what they were.  I just handed them to him and away they went.  The previous pair had gone to another friend... 

 

They have been a big hit and it seems he's using them to look at everything, day and night.

 

Jon

That is fine witness for the binocular faith, Jon. Well done! smile.gif

 

Why am I constantly battling the compulsion to refer to a binocular as a pair of binoculars? When it is a single instrument? Maybe a genetic thing...

 

Fiske



#90 hallelujah

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 01:04 PM

Why am I constantly battling the compulsion to refer to a binocular as a pair of binoculars? When it is a single instrument? Maybe a genetic thing...

 

Fiske

Oberwerk Q & A

 

Is it a “pair of binoculars” or a “binocular”?
There is apparently a lot of dissenting opinion about this. The Oxford Dictionary actually says the word “binocular” doesn’t exist in singular form! It only exists in a plural form, along with bellows, forceps, gallows, glasses, pliers, scissors, shears, and tongs. We strongly disagree! All the other words in that list are objects that are comprised of two parts that work together, such as the two halves of a pliers or scissors. We’d add the word “pants”, or pair of pants to that list. But the “bi” in the word binocular means “two”- in this case “two oculars” (ocular is another word for eyepiece). It’s no different than the word “bicycle”, which means “two wheels”. We don’t ride a “bicycles” or “pair of bicycles”, we ride a bicycle. We don’t view the night sky or go bird-watching with a “binoculars” or “pair of binoculars”, we use a binocular. The correct usage of a “pair of binoculars” would be a 10×42 Sport ED for yourself, and an 8×42 Sport ED for your spouse.

 

Stan
 


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#91 j.gardavsky

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 05:14 PM

When during a star party,

you are allowed to try someone's binoculars in exchange for yours pair,

become these now your au pair binoculars?

 

Best,

JG


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#92 Pinewood

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 05:27 PM

Oberwerk Q & A

 

Is it a “pair of binoculars” or a “binocular”?
There is apparently a lot of dissenting opinion about this. The Oxford Dictionary actually says the word “binocular” doesn’t exist in singular form! It only exists in a plural form, along with bellows, forceps, gallows, glasses, pliers, scissors, shears, and tongs. We strongly disagree! All the other words in that list are objects that are comprised of two parts that work together, such as the two halves of a pliers or scissors. We’d add the word “pants”, or pair of pants to that list. But the “bi” in the word binocular means “two”- in this case “two oculars” (ocular is another word for eyepiece). It’s no different than the word “bicycle”, which means “two wheels”. We don’t ride a “bicycles” or “pair of bicycles”, we ride a bicycle. We don’t view the night sky or go bird-watching with a “binoculars” or “pair of binoculars”, we use a binocular. The correct usage of a “pair of binoculars” would be a 10×42 Sport ED for yourself, and an 8×42 Sport ED for your spouse.

 

Stan,

Most dictionaries have binocular as an adjective but even the Merriam-Webster 

 

https://www.merriam-...onary/binocular

 

refers to the  optical device, a noun in the singular..

 

Stay safe,

Arthur Pinewood

 

 

Hello Stan,

 

Dictionaries do have binocular but as an adjective as in binocular microscope.  The Merriam-Webster online dictionary also has binocular as a noun.

 

Stay safe,

Arthur


Edited by Pinewood, 02 January 2021 - 09:53 PM.


#93 Fiske

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 05:42 PM

The correct usage of a “pair of binoculars” would be a 10×42 Sport ED for yourself, and an 8×42 Sport ED for your spouse.

 

Stan
 

But I'm not married...

 

Fiske



#94 Erik Bakker  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 09:23 AM

For those interested, here is a screenshot from the official European Nikon Store, where you can see the pull-up menu at the top left, next to “Nikon Store” where you can select many European countries and see local availability of their products for consumers or other them directly from Nikon, both binoculars/sports optics and photography related products:

 

IMG_0438.PNG


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#95 Pinewood

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Posted 06 January 2021 - 06:18 PM

Hello,

 

I have only one set of similar binoculars a Porro IOR 7x40, a clone of the NVA Zeiss, and a Zeiss roof glass, a 7x42 T*P BGAT Dialyt Classic.  I have successfully used both for spotting planets.  in the past summer, I used the IOR for spotting the mercury in the evening twilight.  I used the Dialyt for spotting Venus in daylight.  [Kenny did the same with his Dialyt]  The Dialyt is an A-K prism glass which is not typical of roof glasses and it has a moving bridge, which is superior to internal focussing for suppression of chromatic aberration. The IOR is a heavy binocular made for the military, which may ruggedly built.  It has a unique reticle, which I enjoy using.  On all optical points, I favor the Dialy, with its wider field of view, and perhaps higher light transmission.  I find the Dialyt to be more ergonomically satisfactory.  It is even elegant, perhaps sexy.  Both are sharp and contrasty.

 

These are two binoculars made for different purposes, so comparisons are truly hard to make.

 

Stay safe,

Arthur


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#96 Pinewood

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Posted 06 January 2021 - 06:18 PM

Hello,

 

I have only one set of similar binoculars a Porro IOR 7x40, a clone of the NVA Zeiss, and a Zeiss roof glass, a 7x42 T*P BGAT Dialyt Classic.  I have successfully used both for spotting planets.  in the past summer, I used the IOR for spotting the mercury in the evening twilight.  I used the Dialyt for spotting Venus in daylight.  [Kenny did the same with his Dialyt]  The Dialyt is an A-K prism glass which is not typical of roof glasses and it has a moving bridge, which is superior to internal focussing for suppression of chromatic aberration. The IOR is a heavy binocular made for the military, which may ruggedly built.  It has a unique reticle, which I enjoy using.  On all optical points, I favor the Dialyt, with its wider field of view, greater eye relief and perhaps higher light transmission.  I find the Dialyt to be more ergonomically satisfactory.  It is even elegant, perhaps sexy.  Both are sharp and contrasty.

 

These are two binoculars made for different purposes, so comparisons are truly hard to make.

 

Stay safe,

Arthur

Attached Thumbnails

  • 7x40:42.jpg

Edited by Pinewood, 07 January 2021 - 07:47 AM.

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#97 KennyJ

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Posted 06 January 2021 - 06:26 PM

My word, Arthur, I will say this for you.

 

You have a wonderful memory! smile.gif

 

Your old friend, Kenny



#98 Corcaroli78

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 11:56 AM

Hello,

 

I have only one set of similar binoculars a Porro IOR 7x40, a clone of the NVA Zeiss, and a Zeiss roof glass, a 7x42 T*P BGAT Dialyt Classic.  I have successfully used both for spotting planets.  in the past summer, I used the IOR for spotting the mercury in the evening twilight.  I used the Dialyt for spotting Venus in daylight.  [Kenny did the same with his Dialyt]  The Dialyt is an A-K prism glass which is not typical of roof glasses and it has a moving bridge, which is superior to internal focussing for suppression of chromatic aberration. The IOR is a heavy binocular made for the military, which may ruggedly built.  It has a unique reticle, which I enjoy using.  On all optical points, I favor the Dialyt, with its wider field of view, greater eye relief and perhaps higher light transmission.  I find the Dialyt to be more ergonomically satisfactory.  It is even elegant, perhaps sexy.  Both are sharp and contrasty.

 

These are two binoculars made for different purposes, so comparisons are truly hard to make.

 

Stay safe,

Arthur

Hi Pinewood

 

Wonderful pair of 7x binos!

 

i agree. The slim body of the Dialyt is very very attractive, but i doubt i will get one in the near future :-( , in the meantime, i have done comparisons between the NVA 7x40 porro and the Roof 7x40 EDF (both from CZJ and same eyecups) and by far I prefer the porro, it is simply so comfortable to my eyes, both show a very plastic view, but the Porro surpases the EDF in FOV and eye placement.  Maybe i should write a comparison for the vintage lovers.... question.gif

 

7x40NVA_42.jpg   7x40BGA  6
 

Carlos


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#99 Pinewood

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 04:16 PM

Hello Carlos,

 

The EDF does not have phase coating.  Point to the Porro.

 

Stay safe,

Arthur




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