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Why is it we always buy another scope when we are happy with the one we have?

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#76 ccwemyss

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 12:39 PM

Honestly, I hope not. I will not pay a penny for artistry, I'm not a romanic in this respect. I hope that sounds right, its not meant to cause offence, art to me is an intangible that I can enjoy for enjoyments sake alone.bow.gif

 

Form, function, Physics, mathermatics and material science are all I'm will pay for. I will even say that I personally would prefer a machine ground/polished mirror over anything a human can make, no matter what their name is. Artistry to me is where boutique scopes enter the discussion, they look nicer than they will ever perform and you are expected to pay a premium for them! All because they're hand made.confused1.gif

 

Machines have dominated the industrial revolution for good reason, they increase the production and the repeatability of the operations that they carry out. Hence when used correctly should improve quality.

 

Flourite was first use by my favorite company, Takahashi. I believe its been around since the late 60's or early 70's, maybe even eariler? Material science has caught up with this material over the last 30 years since the famous FLP53 glass everyone like to quoteis its replacement, having very similair qualities. If figured correctly.

 

Finally, German-Hungarian mathematics professor Joseph Petzval in 1840 in Vienna, with technical advice provided by Peter Wilhelm Friedrich von Voigtländer designed the Petzval lens / telescope that we have all come to love whether its a Skywatcher or Tak or another manufacturers version.

 

I do agree that the topic of coating on mirrors and lenes has improved greatly since WWII. You could start another discussion on this alone.

 

But there is no black magic here, not anymore. The biggest improvement I would honestly put forward is telescope accessories; reducers, flateners and correctors these used to be limited to high end systems. Now even my Mewlon is a CDK = Corrected Dall-Kirkham. waytogo.gif

 

Regards

 

 

Neil
 

Takahashi makes hand-figured boutique scopes. All of the better amateur telescopes are hand figured because their market doesn't warrant the materials purity and and manufacturing technology that would be needed to consistently achieve 100nm or better precision via full automation. 

 

Hand figuring is as much art as science. The result depends on the skill and experience of the optician, the time (=cost) the company is willing to allow for the work, and the standards they set. Some companies aim for 1/4 wave, and will settle for 1/2. Some, like AP, won't pass anything less than 1/20th.

 

There is no perfect optical design because there are no perfect materials. Optical designers have to make tradeoffs, and that is a combination of engineering and art. With the advent of modern materials, coatings, and design software with better physics models, designers have been able to explore new formulas and recast older designs in ways they would not have thought possible 50 years ago. 

 

At any time, there are usually a few companies that are willing to take the risk to push the cutting edge, employing an artistic combination of design tradeoffs around the latest technology, and artisan level quality. Assuming they know what they are doing, they usually earn a reputation for excellence that is discernible to the observer. They also tend to produce scopes in limited numbers because of the effort and expense involved. They learn from their experience, and then come up with improvements. That's why we keep seeing new models and designs appearing.

 

So back to the topic, there are people who, given an opportunity to buy one of these finely crafted scopes, will do so, even though they already have something that came out of a Synta plant with similar specs, that they are happy with. Sometimes they will buy an antique scope even knowing that it's not as good as their modern one, just out of curiosity to experience what it was like to use a Clark or a Cooke, for example. 

 

Chip W.


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#77 GreyDay

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 03:53 PM

So back to the topic, there are people who, given an opportunity to buy one of these finely crafted scopes, will do so, even though they already have something that came out of a Synta plant with similar specs, that they are happy with.

 

Chip W.

Today i bought a (Asahi) Jupiter 50x600mm!   why?  simply as chip states above you sometimes get the oportunity to buy what some consider to be a finely crafted telescope. It cost roughly $40 which today will just about buy a new Synta 50mm scope so the decision to buy was a no brainer. Adding the jupiter to my "small scope" collection just means one of the lesser scopes will be finding a new home smile.gif


Edited by GreyDay, 12 July 2020 - 03:53 PM.

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#78 bjkaras

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:31 AM

I guess I’m one of the guilty because I have two scopes and I’m happy with both of them. I still think of picking up another one from time to time, and I think I’ve even posted that in some of the forums here. I sold one, and it arguably had the best quality optics over what I have now. But I think about it, and what I focus on now is spending the money to make the ones I have more perfect. I still get the urge, but I try to resist. I guess I hope I never see my future dream scope on sale here, because I might fall off the wagon!



#79 Spyke

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 08:09 AM

Bigger, better, faster, more!

 

Or the thrill of the chase!


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#80 starman876

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 12:20 PM

Bigger, better, faster, more!

 

Or the thrill of the chase!

we keep going bigger until we cannot lift the scope anymore.  Seems like a good plan.


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#81 GreyDay

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:26 PM

we keep going bigger until we cannot lift the scope anymore.  Seems like a good plan.

I learned early on that bigger isn't always better! i live on the coast and seeing for the most part won't allow anything bigger than 8 inch:(

 

Honestly i prefer using my smaller refractors, sure i'm happy with the SW200 but it's not the best all rounder! which means i'll just have to continue buying more scopes until i find "the one" smile.gif


Edited by GreyDay, 28 July 2020 - 03:26 PM.

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#82 icomet

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 10:06 PM

Bigger, better, faster, more!

 

Or the thrill of the chase!

 

we keep going bigger until we cannot lift the scope anymore.  Seems like a good plan.

Or maybe, because you don't have furniture.

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#83 starman876

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 10:08 PM

Or maybe, because you don't have furniture.

Nice dinning room furniture


Edited by starman876, 29 July 2020 - 06:39 AM.


#84 CHASLX200

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:32 AM

I don't care what i had or would have as i would always want another scope as soon as i got one. This is like a drunk and drinking and why i gave it up last year.  I could have a million scopes and would want more.  


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#85 starman876

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 06:40 AM

I don't care what i had or would have as i would always want another scope as soon as i got one. This is like a drunk and drinking and why i gave it up last year.  I could have a million scopes and would want more.  

You just need to learn to drink in moderation. 



#86 Spyke

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 01:31 AM

I learned early on that bigger isn't always better! i live on the coast and seeing for the most part won't allow anything bigger than 8 inch:(

 

Honestly i prefer using my smaller refractors, sure i'm happy with the SW200 but it's not the best all rounder! which means i'll just have to continue buying more scopes until i find "the one" smile.gif

To be honest, I learned (after about 40 scopes) tjat me comfort-zone is refractors up to 5 inch aperture, simply for ease of use, and with quality optics, the views that they give. Sure, I have to pick my targets and be dissatisfied with some types of object, but that's the trade-off for enjoyable viewing.  Still plenty of options still to hunt down in that aperture range....!


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#87 Terra Nova

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 10:45 AM

To be honest, I learned (after about 40 scopes) tjat me comfort-zone is refractors up to 5 inch aperture, simply for ease of use, and with quality optics, the views that they give. Sure, I have to pick my targets and be dissatisfied with some types of object, but that's the trade-off for enjoyable viewing.  Still plenty of options still to hunt down in that aperture range....!

Your sentiments and experiences parallel mine exactly Spyke, as you can see from my list of keepers. waytogo.gif waytogo.gif


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#88 Terra Nova

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:42 PM

I have seldom ever been disappointed by the view through a good refractor; apo or achromat. I can’t say the same for other optical designs.


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#89 oldmanastro

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 09:53 PM

To be honest, I learned (after about 40 scopes) tjat me comfort-zone is refractors up to 5 inch aperture, simply for ease of use, and with quality optics, the views that they give. Sure, I have to pick my targets and be dissatisfied with some types of object, but that's the trade-off for enjoyable viewing.  Still plenty of options still to hunt down in that aperture range....!

I have learned about the comfort zone. A couple of years ago sold my 6" f/8 refractor on a big mount. It was too heavy to haul and set up. It ended up being barely used and I will not end up getting another one. My RV6 Dynascope is also heavy but the recent addition of wheels made easier to move and..well it's an RV6! The  8" Celestron Celestar it's not difficult to manage but requires time for a set up. Thus, it is the small refractors and Maks from 60mm to 120mm that get the most use lately. 

 

Let's take an average night. I come out to scan the weather. There are some clouds to the east. They may take 30 minutes to an hour to get here. Otherwise the sky is clear and transparent. When the clouds come they may obliterate the skies or just come and go. This is what I call a grab and go or forget it night. Maybe the 90mm Maks come out or the 60 to 80mm refractors. The fact is that at least for me there are many more grab and go nights than those in which the sky will remain clear until dawn. So the comfort of being able to quickly deploy and quickly retrieve becomes a major factor in the grab and go nights. In addition, I have found at this stage of my life the thrill of observing and getting the most out of the smaller telescopes. Will I get rid of the RV6 or the Celestar? Not at the moment. I enjoy what a bigger telescope can deliver in an excellent night. For the rest, my comfort zone telescopes are there.

 

Notice how I consider 6 and 8" telescopes big? I am a kid of the 60s and still see them big!

 

Clear Skies!

 

Guido


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#90 Terra Nova

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 10:24 PM

I have learned about the comfort zone. A couple of years ago sold my 6" f/8 refractor on a big mount. It was too heavy to haul and set up. It ended up being barely used and I will not end up getting another one. My RV6 Dynascope is also heavy but the recent addition of wheels made easier to move and..well it's an RV6!

I had a 6” F5 refractor. It was heavy and cumbersome and I had a heck of a time lifting it up to the height required and locking it onto its mount. It was a bear to set up and take down and impossible to move around while mounted given the weight centered at a height of five feet or so above the ground on a tall tripod. I sold it after almost having a bad accident with it. On the other hand, my 6” F4.5 Newtonian is easy to mount or unmount on it’s GEM and pedestal. I can even move it a short distance set up. This is an uncommon situation with me where the reflector won out over the refractor.


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#91 GreyDay

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 04:52 AM

On the other hand, my 6” F4.5 Newtonian is easy to mount or unmount on it’s GEM and pedestal. I can even move it a short distance set up. This is an uncommon situation with me where the reflector won out over the refractor.

I have my SW200p(f5) to confirm double splits or provide deeper views of open clusters. It's the limit of seeing and portability for me.

 

If a smaller telescope is ever created that'll match it for price/performance i'm buying it :)


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#92 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 05:41 AM

6" ED's are just too big when ya include the mount. When a scope becomes a 7 trip scope to set up i just don't use it. I had the perfect scope that i could wheel out all setup with my 18" F/5 Tectron, but the mirror was bad so sold it fast.


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#93 starman876

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 08:15 AM

I  had a 8" F8 Cave that was a great scope, but the pier mount tripod was the problem.  Was not that heavy, but it was a pain to get out through the front door.  So after a while of tripping over the pier legs in the entrance way I sold it.  Great optics so it was a shame.   Was a beautiful unmolested Cave when I sold it.  Who knows where it is now.  


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