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Carl Zeiss APO Binoviewers

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#1 GeneralT001

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 08:58 PM

Totally new to binoviewers and need some advise.

 

I have one of these on order and am wondering what eyepieces to get for use with these?

 

I've read that I should probably have a pair of TV 2.5x and 5x 1.25" Powermates? Do TV eyepieces work well with these binoviewers?

 

I guess I also need a diagonal (I already have a Baader Maxbright - will that work well??).

 

Appreciate any guidance.

 

Carl Zeiss APO Binoviewers.JPG



#2 Jeff B

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 09:51 PM

I think you will really like this viewer.  It is a very high-end viewer and very sharp.  I know as I have two of them.  grin.gif

 

TV eyepieces will work just fine but you have to be careful concerning the field stop size of the eyepiece.  The viewer will pass a 23mm beam so the field stop diameter should be that or less. So the TV 25mm and shorter FL plossls will work just fine as will all of the Delites & Delos but watch out for the thicker upper bodies for the longer FL's..  It should do the 19mm Pan just fine but not the 24mm Pan as the viewer's inlet aperture will vignet the outer field of the 24mm.

 

My viewers came with a Baader quick changer and both 1.25" and 2.0" nose pieces for the changer.  I very much recommend the Baader 1.25x and 1.7X GPCs though you will have to mount them in the quick changers rather than screwing them into the base of the viewer like the Zeiss 30mm that Denis sells or the Baader Mark V.

 

You have some mighty fine scopes and I bet you'll love the viewers with all of them.

 

Enjoy!

 

Jeff 



#3 GeneralT001

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:08 PM

I think you will really like this viewer.  It is a very high-end viewer and very sharp.  I know as I have two of them.  grin.gif

 

TV eyepieces will work just fine but you have to be careful concerning the field stop size of the eyepiece.  The viewer will pass a 23mm beam so the field stop diameter should be that or less. So the TV 25mm and shorter FL plossls will work just fine as will all of the Delites & Delos but watch out for the thicker upper bodies for the longer FL's..  It should do the 19mm Pan just fine but not the 24mm Pan as the viewer's inlet aperture will vignet the outer field of the 24mm.

 

My viewers came with a Baader quick changer and both 1.25" and 2.0" nose pieces for the changer.  I very much recommend the Baader 1.25x and 1.7X GPCs though you will have to mount them in the quick changers rather than screwing them into the base of the viewer like the Zeiss 30mm that Denis sells or the Baader Mark V.

 

You have some mighty fine scopes and I bet you'll love the viewers with all of them.

 

Enjoy!

 

Jeff 

Thanks, I'll start sourcing those eyepieces :)



#4 GeneralT001

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:34 PM

Would a pair of Ethos 13mm be a good fit? I see the field stop is good at about 22mm and IPD of 62mm.



#5 GeneralT001

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:42 PM

The Delos line seem to be the sweet spot for TV binoviewing?



#6 denis0007dl

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 06:27 AM

I like Morpheus line very much, espeicially 17.5mm, better than Delos line.

 

Zeiss Aspeheric Orthos, and any quality orthos like ZAO, Takahashi and Fujiyama Orthos are great for binoviewers, especially they show max possible performance in Zeiss APO binoviewer.

I tried Ethoses, too heavy, not so comfortable as Morpheus/Delos line.

You can use any Powermate, any GPC, any high quality barlow with Zeiss APO binoviewer with still preserved ultimate optical performance!

I am big fan of Powermates, AP BARCON/BARADV, TMB 1.8x lens cell.


Edited by denis0007dl, 30 June 2020 - 06:35 AM.

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#7 GeneralT001

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 08:58 AM

I like Morpheus line very much, espeicially 17.5mm, better than Delos line.

 

Zeiss Aspeheric Orthos, and any quality orthos like ZAO, Takahashi and Fujiyama Orthos are great for binoviewers, especially they show max possible performance in Zeiss APO binoviewer.

I tried Ethoses, too heavy, not so comfortable as Morpheus/Delos line.

You can use any Powermate, any GPC, any high quality barlow with Zeiss APO binoviewer with still preserved ultimate optical performance!

I am big fan of Powermates, AP BARCON/BARADV, TMB 1.8x lens cell.

Thanks Denis.



#8 denis0007dl

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 01:38 PM

You are welcome! ☺️

#9 Kunama

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 09:36 PM

After lots of back and forth testing the Baader T2 Zeiss spec prism and the Baader Maxbright T2 Sitall Ceramic mirror diagonal  I sold the prism and now only use the mirror with my Zeiss binoviewer and TMB-LZOS 152/1200. 

 

Perhaps there is a reason Astro-Physics specify the Maxbright over the Zeiss prism....smile.gif


Edited by Kunama, 30 June 2020 - 09:39 PM.


#10 fate187

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 12:06 AM

I have Morpheus eyepieces with 17.5/12.5 and 9mm. Also tried the 6.5mm but eyeplacement was difficult combined with inter pupillar problems. I got 7mm Delites after a short visit of 6mm Vixen SLVs (which are very comfy and have good optics at a very low price). The 9mm Mrophei are likely to be replaced with 9mm Delites. The Morpheus are quite heavy (330g) so you need a sturdy focuser end.

I also have the 1.25, 1.7 and 2.6 GPC. Most used is the 1.7 GPC. Try one of the Baader T2 mirrors/prisms, BBHS or not: short light path, good mechanics and the quick changer is just really good.

I would not use Ethos eyepieces, because of their weight and large field, which you probably can't take in and will most likely not matter with higher magnification. 

Enjoy this bino, because it is really fun to use. I use mine at fairly high mag without any issues due to collimation bow.gif

 

Oh I forgot: for very low mag I have a pair of 25mm Cel X-cel and 35mm Baader Eudiascopic. The last is a very recent addition and both pairs are more for completion purposes as I am mostly viewing planets/moon/doubles from the city at this moment. 


Edited by fate187, 02 July 2020 - 12:13 AM.

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#11 swsantos

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 08:03 AM

 

My viewers came with a Baader quick changer and both 1.25" and 2.0" nose pieces for the changer.  I very much recommend the Baader 1.25x and 1.7X GPCs though you will have to mount them in the quick changers rather than screwing them into the base of the viewer like the Zeiss 30mm that Denis sells or the Baader Mark V.

 

I have the Maxbright II and the 1.25 GPC thinking of getting more GPC’s. I screw the GPC into the top of the diagonal and then use the binoviewer’s coupling nut to attach the diagonal. Can the GPC be attached to the the quick changer itself and if so is that between the binoviewer and diagonal? Trying to figure out how I would swap in and out and change GPC’s quickly and safely especially outside while observing and trying to visualize “mount them in the quick changers”.

 

 Thanks,


Edited by swsantos, 02 July 2020 - 04:00 PM.


#12 Jeff B

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 11:07 AM

I have the Maxbright II and the 1.25 GPC thinking of getting more GPC’s. I screw the GPC into the top of the diagonal and then use the binoviewer’s coupling nut to attach the diagonal. Can the GPC be attached to the the quick changer itself and if so is that between the binoviewer and diagonal? Trying to figure out how I would swap in and out and change GPC’s quickly and safely especially outside while observing and trying to visualize “mount them in the quick changers”.

 

 Thanks,

Steve, the short answer is no and the bolded part of your question is my frustration with the system as well.  If Baader made a GPC slide switch like that of the Denk system, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.  So, like, everybody else, I change them out individually in the cold and dark or dedicate each individual GPC to one of Baader's very expensive diagonals, which I'm sure they just love.

 

Jeff


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#13 WE349A

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 12:13 PM

I’m curious which eyepieces would be your favorite, Jeff and Denis or anyone else with APO’s, for planetary viewing? I don’t have pairs of anything below 12.5mm except a pair of Baader 8-24 zooms. Looking for a pair of fixed for more magnification without having black out issues. My widest fixed mag pair is some Docter/Noblex. Thanks!

#14 Jeff B

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 02:31 PM

I use, and am very fond of, my APM 10mm Ultra Flats.   For me, they are an excellent combination of comfort/eye relief , size, weight, AFOV, sharpness and price.  I wish Markus offered an 8 mm version   Plus:

 

NO STINKING UNDERCUTS!!!!

 

I also have a nice, sharp pair of older UO 9mm orthos that are great for lunar/planetary/doubles, but have the narrower AFOV and shorter eye relief.  But

 

NO STINKING UNDERCUTS!!!

 

Finally I have my old but trusty and extremely good Clave Plossls.  Very sharp (!), slightly "warm" in "tint" but the 8mm pair is very tight.  And......you guessed it.....

 

NO STINKING UNDERCUTS!!!

 

Jeff



#15 fate187

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:20 PM

I don't like undercuts as well. BUT! Like two weeks ago I probably forgot to switch off my iOptron mount and after some hourse of inactivity (during the night when I was sleeping) it started moving. When I woke up I didn't notice it: the scope must had made a 180° turn, because the focuser and with that the bino with both 25mm Cel X-Cels was up side down bigshock.gif. The eyepieces were still in place thanks to the undercuts. I do not fasten my eyepieces with the screws - not necessary. So in this case I was glad to have the undercuts. In the Zeiss bino I don't have problems with them, again because I don't fasten them down.



#16 WE349A

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:35 PM

Not sure I totally understand, Jeff. You’re saying you love undercuts? 😆
Thanks for the recommendations!

#17 Jeff B

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 10:21 PM

So last night I had my old 6" F10 AP triplet out and was comparing diagonals (specifically my AP maxbright and Baader Zeiss spec prism diagonals) with my Zeiss 30mm viewers from Denis.  This is a really special, one-of-a-kind objective that Roland kindly refigured for me about six or seven years ago.  Being an older pre-ED oiled triplet there is indeed a little out of focus blue/violet visible at high power, above say 150X.  I used the moon, Vega, Arcturus, and the doubles Izar and the double-double for most of the evaluation and just plain observing.  I spent a bunch of time on Vega and the moon as they are tough targets when it comes to color errors in refractors.  Specifically, Vega is a very bright blue/white and lunar crater rims and mountain peaks can be intensely bright as well and I find they are very good at revealing color fringing in the system. 

 

Seeing was not all that good, especially with the moon in the south but overhead was not at all bad sometimes.  

 

In mono-vision, it was tough for me to tell any differences in sharpness or color fidelity between the diagonals though I thought there was a little extra bit of red splashing around Vega and, at times, a very, very subtle reddish hue bordering crater rims against the shadow blackness when using the prism diagonal.  It took me several back and forths to identify it.  Vega's stellar core was nicely white with both diagonals but especially with the AP diagonal.  But both views with both diagonals were very sharp.  

 

However, even when using the Baader 1.25X GPC between the Zeiss 30mm viewer and the diagonals, the viewer did add a little bit more blue and red splashing around Vega, with a slightly more yellow stellar core.  This slight color degradation has been consistent for me with other observations with other refractors and viewers where I stack the prisms in a typical viewer, on top of the prism in the Baader diagonal.    

 

Then I had a hunch, went inside and got one of my sample of the Zeiss Sharpest "APO" viewer and let it warm up outside for about 45 minutes.

 

I'll tell you what, the Sharpest is indeed sharp... and very color free. Other than a reduction in brightness when using the viewer, I could detect NO, differences in sharpness or color fidelity compared to mono-vision with either diagonal.  In fact, with the 1.25X GPC in the light path and the AP diagonal, I'd almost swear the view via the Sharpest was, subjectively, very slightly sharper with less blue error than in mono-vision.  For example, I was really hard pressed to see any fringing or hues against the bright crater rims and Vega's core was very white looking with a reduced blue/violet halo that was a bit more tight to the core image. Izar was just beautiful too and both pairs of the double double were hard, white, little airy disks with no fringing that I could see.  Very, very nice.

 

I had a similar experience early last year with my CFF 160 F6.5 triplet.  Using this viewer, a 1.7X GPC, and an AP or Baader BBHS silver diagonal was consistently more color free than any of my other viewer diagonal/OCS combinations with this particular scope.  

 

You might chuckle a little with the term "APO" applied to a bino-viewer, but in this case, well, maybe it's not so far off the mark.  

 

Anyone else have similar experiences?

 

Jeff




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