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Should I upgrade the mount

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17 replies to this topic

#1 astrosatch

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 12:15 PM

Hi!
I have Heq5 pro belt mod and tuned and skywatcher quattro 8" telescope, asi1600, filterwheel and oag. 10 kg total weight. My rms never goes under 1". It's 1.3"-1.6". Do you think I need heavier mount like Eq6-r to improve things? I'm not sure if it's worth it, I've seen other mention that heq5 pro is more than capable of carrying that weight and guidind under 1".

Should I consider better mount?

Andrej

#2 Supernova74

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 12:50 PM

hi Andre I’m no imager as I’m mainly visual.however I would definitely say your a more of the top end there regarding your mounts capacity for imaging purposes.i think for visuel the HEQ5 weight capacity is around the 18Kg mark

and for imaging it’s really recommended half of the mounts capacity to function best as long as your images are not elongated etc and your happy with the results why do you want to upgrade!?

sean



#3 sg6

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 12:56 PM

Imaging payload for HEQ5 is given as 12KG, the 200 Quattro is 9.5KG (Skywatcher site data). As you will have assorted bits on the scope I would have said you are closer to 11Kg even the 12Kg mark.

 

How heavy is the 1600, the OAG, the filter wheel.

Will half agree that the mount is likely capable of your present load, just it is a question. I see too many cases of "I have put X Kg on and it was fine."

Trouble is that load once and once only it will handle. no-one says after 6 months they were an idiot and now need a new mount. And it sounds good to claim more then the previous person.

 

Some will depend on the mount setup - where are the weights? Close up or further down the bar.

 

Where are you and in general the weather conditions - thinking wind here. The Quattro is an imaging newtonian and swill have a fair cross section, so good for catching wind.

 

Lets ask an odd one: How are the images? Good, poor, as expected?

The lazy bit of me says if the images are good why care about what the RMS is given as.

 

Who did the belt mod?

Were the bearing checked ?

My HEQ5 was real poor at even moving, a strip down, clean, regrease and applied thought to reassembly and it is smooth now. Will say reassembly needed applied thought - especially the weight bar end. That was a bit of a nightmare.



#4 TxStars

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 01:14 PM

A higher payload capacity higher quality mount is almost always a good thing to get.

As far as wanting tighter rms, You may be seeing limited by your local conditions.

Check what others are getting in your area or as close to the area as you can find.

If the sky conditions are great most of the time then you can benefit from a better mount.



#5 astrosatch

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 01:46 PM

Thank you all for replies. Mount was tuned by Dark frame optics. The smootness and backlash were improved, but guiding wasn't up to expectations or promises. Maybe my conditions are not that good or I'm doing something wrong. Pictures are not bad, but sometimes guiding is unreliable and I get elongated stars out of nothing.
How can I improve things?

#6 yzhzhang

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 03:51 PM

What software and settings do you use for guiding? There might be potential to improve from guiding setting side.

#7 TxStars

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 10:23 PM

What guide camera are you using?

If the pixels are larger than the imaging cameras pixels you may want to try a camera with smaller pixels.



#8 astrosatch

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 12:50 AM

I use Asiair pro which has phd2. It's stripped version of phd2. I use settings 80-90% aggressiveness, 3sec exposure, 2000 max motion, oag on 800mm asi120mm. Balance is very slightly east.
I even tried with evostar 72ed, which is lighter and got same numbers. Maybe I should mention, that I'm imaging from balcony on 4th floor.

#9 Sammy

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 02:43 AM

Maybe I should mention, that I'm imaging from balcony on 4th floor.


Probably the cause of most of your problems....
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#10 astrosatch

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 05:44 AM

Yes. I am aware of the issues regarding my conditions. It's just I saw elsewhere that people get good guiding in simmilar conditions and even on wooden deck. I will try to do it on ground and away from buildings. So should I be ok with heq5 then?



#11 Sammy

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 09:04 AM

Yes. I am aware of the issues regarding my conditions. It's just I saw elsewhere that people get good guiding in simmilar conditions and even on wooden deck. I will try to do it on ground and away from buildings. So should I be ok with heq5 then?


You can try and see the results. From my experience of imaging on a concrete porch attached to my house is that if anyone walks in the house near my back porch vibrations are transfered to the the scope. Vibration suppression pads might help but I dont have any. I set up in my yard now anyways....

#12 astrosatch

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:01 PM

One more question. I read that for ioptron mounts payload is dependable of size of telescope. Bigger newton despite less weight (carbon tube) requires bigger mount. So smaller refractor is better suitable for heq5 than large newton and they might have the same weight.
Your thoughts?

#13 TxStars

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 11:39 PM

If you are in an area with wind then a more compact scope is better as it has less Sail area for the wind to catch.

Also a shorter focal length scope is easier to image with.

 

WoW did not know these results were from a building.. Go buy a lotto ticket..lol

Buildings have movement and vibrations all their own so getting anything decent is going to change with time.

For imaging it is best to avoid anything that can cause vibration and movement as either can reduce the resolution of the image.


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#14 astrosatch

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 03:54 AM

Thanks TxStars. I guess you saw images on astrobin? Not all was made from balcony. However the best images were, because I had new camera. I will stick with heq5 for a while longer. Anyway my view is very limited at home so trip to imaging site outside of town is necessary to catch other objects. But it is so comfy to image from my sofa.😁

#15 astrosatch

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 12:36 PM

One more thing. Does heavier mount better deal with imbalance than lighter one? That is if telescope is moderately unbalanced would eq6 better guide than heq5?

Andrej

#16 TxStars

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 11:47 PM

One more thing. Does heavier mount better deal with imbalance than lighter one? That is if telescope is moderately unbalanced would eq6 better guide than heq5?

Andrej

Not an easy Yes or No...

It really depends on the construction of the drive system and how far out of balance the scope was..

A mount with a larger RA/Dec gear should be able to handle imbalance easier as less force is places on the motors.

*For some mounts having a slightly unbalanced scope reduces gear backlash when guiding.


Edited by TxStars, 13 July 2020 - 11:48 PM.

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#17 rgsalinger

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 03:10 PM

You need a mount with more capacity. Period. You cannot use simply "weight" as a capacity measurement. That Quattro is a long tube and has a hefty moment arm. Given the acceleration that happens when you guide, a long tube means a lot more force on the bearings than a shorter tube. It's not a linear relationship. 

 

As far as unbalanced performance is concerned it really is a question of the build and not the capacity although the two are often one in the same. I don't know why you'd want to unbalance a mount by a large amount in any case. I think that you are wondering about a slight DEC and RA imbalance which some claim improves guiding. That much imbalance pretty much any mount can deal with - it's just supposed to be a few ounces. I've never personally seen it work. I tried it a long time ago with my trusty iEQ45. It fixed nothing and I had to stay up all night an rebalance the mount just to do a meridian flip! YMMV, of course.

 

Rgrds-Ross



#18 astrosatch

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Posted 22 July 2020 - 04:27 AM

Thanks for help. What would be better option for my setup: EQ6-R or Ioptron Gem45?




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