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New Moon vs. Webster

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#1 JTNX01DC

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 06:10 PM

Im thinking of giving in to my aperture fever and buying a big dob. Currently have a 12 inch. Want to get it before im to old to move it around. I'm aiming on getting a 22" sub F/4 dob and have narrowed down to New Moon and Webster. Any thoughts or advice?



#2 stargazer193857

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 06:36 PM

No personal experience, but from their sites:

Newmoon charges more for big and less for small scopes.

Both use premium mirrors. Webster only uses Zambuto and Kennedy.

Webster uses light colored plywood and stain or paint for those who like color, while Newmoon use dark wood with clear coat.

Different truss pole styles.

Webster uses a classical UTA.


Webster compares his technology to the lowest class alternatives. Newmoon does not compare his to others but simply says what it is.


Webster uses a dovetail joint, vs Newmoon a finger joint.

Edited by stargazer193857, 05 July 2020 - 06:55 PM.


#3 stargazer193857

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 06:57 PM

You can remove Webster from the list. They stopped building some years ago.

I wonder why. Not enough mirrors?
Retired?
Market not good enough?

I'm actually curious why several makers quit.


...

Edit: some says they emailed Webster and found Webster is still in business.

Edited by stargazer193857, 05 July 2020 - 10:48 PM.


#4 a__l

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 07:07 PM

A few reasons. All information is available on this forum, if carefully read.



#5 Keith Rivich

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 07:18 PM

What ever you chose enjoy!


Edited by Keith Rivich, 05 July 2020 - 07:19 PM.


#6 sw196060

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 07:40 PM

Starstructure


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#7 stargazer193857

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 07:58 PM

A few reasons. All information is available on this forum, if carefully read.

https://www.cloudyni...ster-shed-find/

 

Here is some of it. It does not say why he quit, but does say many mirror coatings were failing prematurely at one point, that he had trouble keeping up with demand, and that he still responded to emails even after shutting down. 



#8 turtle86

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 08:14 PM

Another vote for Starstructure.


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#9 a__l

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 08:25 PM

https://www.cloudyni...ster-shed-find/

 

Here is some of it. It does not say why he quit, but does say many mirror coatings were failing prematurely at one point, that he had trouble keeping up with demand, and that he still responded to emails even after shutting down. 

Kennedy has changed the supplier for coatings.
I have OMI coating on my 24", very good!



#10 The Ardent

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:23 PM

1. See some in person first.

2. Consider buying used if cost saving desired

Good Luck!


Im thinking of giving in to my aperture fever and buying a big dob. Currently have a 12 inch. Want to get it before im to old to move it around. I'm aiming on getting a 22" sub F/4 dob and have narrowed down to New Moon and Webster. Any thoughts or advice?


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#11 stargazer193857

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:25 PM

22" should show some detail. Great for the horse head nebula or M101.

#12 JTNX01DC

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:32 PM

You all are great:-). I really appreciate the input.



#13 JTNX01DC

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:48 PM

Just a quick note. Just emailed Eric @ Webster. They are definitely in business. Rumors to the contrary are incorrect.


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#14 Allan Wade

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 06:32 AM

Just a quick note. Just emailed Eric @ Webster. They are definitely in business. Rumors to the contrary are incorrect.

I wonder in what sense they are still in business. I’ve not heard of any new Webster dobs being delivered in years. I do know of owners though who received their dobs in various stages of completion and little support to get them operational. It was after that Webster went quiet and disappeared from the radar.

 

If I was in the market for a new, large aperture dob in the US, I would get a Starstructure without hesitation. I’ve been very impressed with all the Starstructure dobs I’ve used. Plus I emailed Mike Zammit a tech question last year and he sent me several emails and photo replies. I’ve never been a customer of his or pretended to be, yet he was so kind and helpful. I can tell he would be great fun to build a scope with.


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#15 JTNX01DC

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 07:45 AM

Starstructure seems tobe very popular around here. I had a look at the site and they seem to be real pros.I've been leaning towards the wood dobs mostly out of farmiliarity. Any comments on the pros of a welded aluminum scope. What do you figure a high quality 22" mirror and secondary would add to the price?



#16 Allan Wade

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 08:11 AM

Sub f/4 mirrors of high quality are the domain of a very few opticians. There’s going to be quite a % difference as well going from f/4 to f/3. So depends where along that curve you want to land as well. I wouldn’t expect much change from $10000 for a primary and secondary set at f/4.



#17 havasman

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 08:57 AM

Starstructure seems tobe very popular around here. I had a look at the site and they seem to be real pros.I've been leaning towards the wood dobs mostly out of farmiliarity. Any comments on the pros of a welded aluminum scope. What do you figure a high quality 22" mirror and secondary would add to the price?

When Mike Zamit started building Starstructure metal scopes he use the same classic Dob style UTA, poles, mirror box and groundboards but made them from metal. Then a few years ago he developed his current Horizon configuration to take best advantage of the properties of his chosen material and, while his original designs are fine scopes, that development set Starstructure out front with only John Pratt's JP Astrocraft scopes as likely equals in US builders.

 

BTW, there is a ready-to-ship brand new 18" JP Astrocraft on their website that could save you over a year in the queue in case you're interested. And the cost-per-inch of aperture is actually quite good.


Edited by havasman, 06 July 2020 - 05:15 PM.

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#18 FrankG

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 11:48 AM

Starstructure seems tobe very popular around here. I had a look at the site and they seem to be real pros.I've been leaning towards the wood dobs mostly out of farmiliarity. Any comments on the pros of a welded aluminum scope. What do you figure a high quality 22" mirror and secondary would add to the price?

Was fortunate enough to be at a Chiefland star party a dozen (?) years ago when I first saw some Starstructures on the field. I was so impressed I ordered one from Mike for my 15" Zambuto (then in a high-end wooden dob) before returning home. I have not regretted it. Over the years it has taken a lickin' but kept on tickin'. They are so precisely and tightly built the gotos and tracking make using it with a camera easy.


Edited by FrankG, 06 July 2020 - 02:46 PM.

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#19 Starman1

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 05:01 PM

Kennedy has changed the supplier for coatings.
I have OMI coating on my 24", very good!

Kennedy is no longer making mirrors.

OMI has closed its business.

Rob Teeter has stopped making scopes (hopefully not forever).

Zambuto doesn't make mirrors larger than 20"--Mike Lockwood is a great candidate for big mirrors.

I've heard Webster is back up and running again, but it would take a call to find out if that is true for complete scopes.

Starstructure is a good candidate for a large scope.

Optiques Fullum (Normand Fullum) also does larger scopes.

Ostahowski Optics is doing large and fast mirrors, so another possibility for a mirror source.

Waite Research makes large scopes, so yet another possibility.  I like the Renegade design, conceptually.

Astrosystems does scopes to 24", so a possibility for a larger scope.

And, Spica Eyes (Tom Osypowski) does bit scopes as large as you want.



#20 berkleystg

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 08:33 PM

If you were still thinking about the New Moon Telescope and was considering a ring UTA. NMT is now offering a sandwich ring UTA for no additional cost for next couple months. Here is the video Ryan posted on his Facebook today if you’re interested

https://drive.google...TJqsg6JUrU/view

Edited by berkleystg, 06 July 2020 - 08:35 PM.

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#21 stargazer193857

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 09:07 PM

If you were still thinking about the New Moon Telescope and was considering a ring UTA. NMT is now offering a sandwich ring UTA for no additional cost for next couple months. Here is the video Ryan posted on his Facebook today if you’re interested

https://drive.google...TJqsg6JUrU/view


Ryan is always busy finding what the market wants. He got carbon fiber poles, which now 80% of customers want.

#22 The Ardent

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 11:54 PM

80% of what customers??? Who are they? 

So who took a poll on poles? Where is it published? 



#23 stargazer193857

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 08:48 AM

80% of what customers??? Who are they?

So who took a poll on poles? Where is it published?


His customers buying his scopes. He says 80% order CF.


Also I see no benefit to a second ring if there is no web between them, but he says even the single ring was strong enough, and that he made the second ring to appeal to customers.


I think poles can be thin and that lack of triangulation is the issue. But if I were to sell poles, I'd offer thicker ones to those who want them.

#24 jloweva

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 02:56 PM

Call Marco Guidi at Doctelescope.com



#25 Chris Pringle

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 05:47 PM

If you are set on a fast 20” or above Dob telescope, the quality and accuracy of the primary mirror would be the first thing to look at with any of the builders you plan to use. That will narrow down your choices tremendously. Zambuto is the crème de la crème optician but specializes on 20” mirrors or below. Above that your choices will become even narrower. Ostahowski in California is one optician to trust. Besides the price, the waiting queue will be long but, in the end, worth it. I hear it takes 6 months to a year.

The rest (the scope itself) will be a balance of looks, weight and budget. There is something to be said about a beautiful classic build in fine wood and metal trusses. But some people will be more inclined for an ultra modern look of all metal and carbon fiber which will also be lighter and considerably more expensive.

It has been mentioned before, AstroSystems in Colorado build gorgeous truss Dobs in the classic look. Fast < 4.0, 22”, top-of-the-line Ostahowski mirrors, lots of experience? They tick all those boxes. Randy (owner) is very knowledgeable and patient. Definitely worth having a phone call with him.


Edited by Chris Pringle, 07 July 2020 - 05:56 PM.



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