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Narrowband imaging OIII dilemma i.e. Baader or Antlia

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#1 Manav

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 05:18 AM

Hi everyone,

 

Late last year I bought a Baader ultra narrowband 3.5nm h-alpha filter which I'm having a lot of success with.

 

I live in a fairly heavy light-polluted area and was hoping to jump across to full narrowband imaging i.e. OIII and SII.

 

So I started looking around and noted that the Baader ultra narrowband collection has a wavelength of 4.5nm for OIII and SII.

 

And there aren’t many reviews of the Baader 4.5nm range so I thought I'd ask here.

 

1. Does it make a difference if h-alpha is 3.5nm and OIII and SII are not?

2. Another and a slightly cheaper option is Antlia 3.5nm Narrowband OIII and SII. I know there are halos on the Antlia filters (see this post https://www.cloudyni...o-measurements/) and was wondering how the Baader stack up?

4. Does it matter if I mix and match filters i.e. Baader with Antlia as long as they are all approximately the same wavelength?

 

Ideally, I would love to have Chroma OII and Antlia SII to complement my Baader Ha but the price of the Chroma is just too much for me.

 

Looking forward to your inputs.

 

Regards

 



#2 sn2006gy

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 11:18 AM

1. No difference, many people mix and match sets and some shoot with multiple widths of same bands

2. Baader have halos on bright stars too, It's Astrodons and Chroma are best bet to not have halos or greatly reduced halos - can be your optic train, FF/Reducer and Camera causing some artifacts/accentuating halos.

3? :D

4.  Doesn't matter if you mix filters, you may just need to autofocus and have your flat/dark library matched. If you stick with certain brands they may be "parfocal" and uniform but TBH I'd focus anyway since rotating a filter out is as good as any time to focus without having to rely on Temp or Time


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#3 Manav

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 08:24 AM

Thanks Byron - I'll save up and get the Antlia :)


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#4 happylimpet

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 08:35 AM

if you use an OAG then having filters of different thickness may cause the guidecam to go out of focus....just something to be aware of!


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#5 sn2006gy

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 09:07 AM

That does bring up a valid point - if the filters aren't the same thickness, then your back focus or if you run an OAG could be impacted by a filter change.  I'd at least try and make sure they're the same thickness.  3mm is pretty standard.



#6 Manav

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 09:54 PM

Just checked for Antlia - The 36mm and smaller are 2mm while 50mm and larger are 3mm thick.

 

For Baader the Ha 3.5nm is 2mm thick but the funny thing is the remaining OIII and SII ultra-narrowband is 3mm...weird



#7 EhJHornig

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 06:28 PM

I'm curious whether you ended up upgrading your Oiii to a Baader/Antlia or not? It sounds like you went with the Antlia, how do you like it so far? I'm considering upgrading my Oiii since I image from Bortle 8. The Astrodon/Chroma may be great but the prices...not so much. I have also heard the Baader does not have any reflections whatsoever for some people, so it is smart to not immediately dismiss them. I'm struggling to find a comparison of the Baader Ultra-Narrowband with other filters as well, especially one that shows pictures for the comparison.


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#8 OrionNebula32

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 10:34 AM

Yea i literally cant afford Chroma/Astrodon and have been back n forth the past month on which fitlers I was going to end up purchasing. After some research and financial debating I ended up ordering 36mm ANTLIA filters. I have some friends on instagram who use them and their images come out amazing. And like stated you can always use morphology and other tricks in Pixinsight to remove halos. I got 3.5nm bandwidth 36mm filters for $269/ea. I originally had bought Baader but they werent in stock and that gave me time to do more research and I think the ANTLIA will be better. However with that being said, knock on wood, China does have horrible QC when it comes to mostly anything they produce. We shall see how they work when i get them and will try and run some tests for anyone interested. 


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#9 terry59

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 10:48 AM

Yea i literally cant afford Chroma/Astrodon and have been back n forth the past month on which fitlers I was going to end up purchasing. After some research and financial debating I ended up ordering 36mm ANTLIA filters. I have some friends on instagram who use them and their images come out amazing. And like stated you can always use morphology and other tricks in Pixinsight to remove halos. I got 3.5nm bandwidth 36mm filters for $269/ea. I originally had bought Baader but they werent in stock and that gave me time to do more research and I think the ANTLIA will be better. However with that being said, knock on wood, China does have horrible QC when it comes to mostly anything they produce. We shall see how they work when i get them and will try and run some tests for anyone interested. 

Here is a look at my Baader 8.5nm OIII performance on NGC 7822. FSQ106EDXIII/Atik 383L+/10 minute sub

 

frown.gif  

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#10 OrionNebula32

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 10:58 AM

Here is a look at my Baader 8.5nm OIII performance on NGC 7822. FSQ106EDXIII/Atik 383L+/10 minute sub

 

frown.gif  

Call it what you will, The Question Mark, I call it the Neanderthal or better yet my personal preference...the Evil Monkey Skull Nebula lol. I was imaging this last friday evening. I will attempt to do a comparison on this when i get my ANTLIA. 

Just for another comparison here is the same object(NGC7822)
240s x 1 using LeXtreme with ASI183MM PRO



#11 Sasho_Panov

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 01:29 AM

if you use an OAG then having filters of different thickness may cause the guidecam to go out of focus....just something to be aware of!

That is the reason why OAG should be placed immediately after the focal reducer/flatenner, in front of a filter wheell with proper spacer to the optimal imaging ring lenght, of course.

 

In that case the guiding camera focus would not be affected by the filter thickness differences.

 

Sasho


Edited by Sasho_Panov, 18 September 2020 - 01:31 AM.

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#12 premk19

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 01:52 AM

That is the reason why OAG should be placed immediately after the focal reducer/flatenner, in front of a filter wheell with proper spacer to the optimal imaging ring lenght, of course.

In that case the guiding camera focus would not be affected by the filter thickness differences.

Sasho


Not really. If filters are of different thickness then the focuser has to move in or out a bit to be in focus again when changing filters, throwing the oag guide camera off focus. The imaging camera is compensated for the change in thickness but the guide camera isn't.
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#13 EhJHornig

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 07:42 PM

I ended up ordering an Antlia 3.5nm 1.25" Oiii filter. It should come soon and when it does, I'll see how it compares to my ZWO 7nm 1.25" Oiii, if anyone is interested.
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#14 OrionNebula32

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 09:20 AM

I ended up ordering an Antlia 3.5nm 1.25" Oiii filter. It should come soon and when it does, I'll see how it compares to my ZWO 7nm 1.25" Oiii, if anyone is interested.

yes of course



#15 EhJHornig

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 01:34 AM

Just received the ANTLIA 3.5nm Oiii 1.25" today, so thought I'd just compare it against Sadr, which I had problems with before. This is the comparison (both images just an STF in PI). I'm using an APO doublet, ASI1600mm and EFW. Both images are 120s, gain 200 offset 50. Notice on the right side there's a very large, faint halo around Sadr. It becomes visible when stacked, as you can see here. I'm not seeing any large halo on the ANTLIA sub. Still has the small halo, but I'm not surprised by that and it's not a big deal to me (knowing I only paid ~$70 extra relative to the ZWO filter which I will now sell). I know it's not an in-depth comparison between the filters and doesn't show contrast differences in nebulosity, but this halo on Sadr was the worst I encountered since recently delving into NB imaging. The ANTLIA came with nice packaging and a clear plastic case with a magnetic lid; the filter itself was in a holographic sticker-sealed pouch and was perfectly clean and scratch-free. My median ADU using the ANTLIA filter was lowered by ~1500 with equivalent subs, so I assume that's the result of the narrow bandwidth. Unfortunately I cannot compare them against Baader filters with my setup, so I apologize for that.


Edited by EhJHornig, 25 September 2020 - 01:44 AM.


#16 OrionNebula32

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:27 AM

the filter itself was in a holographic sticker-sealed pouch and was perfectly clean and scratch-free.

i got theLRGBHaOIII filters and they all came dirty except the Ha, the blue filter was dusty AND has some sort of residual on it like finger oil swiping or something, going to attempt to clean it up a bit, but my flats seem okay. im just getting into NB imaging as well. best of luck =)


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#17 EhJHornig

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:15 PM

i got theLRGBHaOIII filters and they all came dirty except the Ha, the blue filter was dusty AND has some sort of residual on it like finger oil swiping or something, going to attempt to clean it up a bit, but my flats seem okay. im just getting into NB imaging as well. best of luck =)


Unfortunate to hear about that, it sounds like their quality control isn't 100% there yet.
I've seen people have issues with Astrodons as well, which surprises me because if you have a machine that can sputter the hundreds of layers required for an astronomy filter, you'd surely have access to a clean room and the means to ensure the filters are sent out clean. Thanks and good luck to you too!!

#18 OrionNebula32

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:27 PM

im just wondering if i can use lens wipes to clean them. i have some ZEISS lens wipes. would they work?



#19 EhJHornig

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:41 PM

im just wondering if i can use lens wipes to clean them. i have some ZEISS lens wipes. would they work?


It should work, as long as it's moistened (IPA moistened I assume) and not dry. Just make sure there's NEVER acetone involved and you follow manufacturers instructions. If you're in a clean area and have a little lens air blower, dry it afterwards with that. So basically make sure there's no acetone, don't clean it with non di water and don't clean it dry either.

#20 OrionNebula32

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:51 PM

It should work, as long as it's moistened (IPA moistened I assume) and not dry. Just make sure there's NEVER acetone involved and you follow manufacturers instructions. If you're in a clean area and have a little lens air blower, dry it afterwards with that. So basically make sure there's no acetone, don't clean it with non di water and don't clean it dry either.

I have these:

https://www.amazon.c...1067067&sr=8-15



#21 EhJHornig

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 05:10 PM

I have these:

https://www.amazon.c...1067067&sr=8-15


I think they should be fine.

#22 terry59

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 06:46 AM

I think they should be fine.

I tried using these things to clean my glasses. The material is harsh and they do a poor job of cleaning the glass. No way in hell one of these is getting near my filters. PEC pads, 90% isopropyl alcohol and a rocket blower for me

 

Edit: Note to self....never buy used filters

 

wink.gif


Edited by terry59, 26 September 2020 - 06:50 AM.

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#23 OrionNebula32

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 02:26 PM

Here is my most recent image. No halos at all with my OIII channel. taken with my SVX70 with an ASI183MM PRO Ha and OIII only. 


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#24 OrionNebula32

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 02:28 PM

I tried using these things to clean my glasses. The material is harsh and they do a poor job of cleaning the glass. No way in hell one of these is getting near my filters. PEC pads, 90% isopropyl alcohol and a rocket blower for me

 

Edit: Note to self....never buy used filters

 

wink.gif

NEVER buy used filters indeed. What is a PEC pad? I still havent attempted to clean them. Looking for better suggestions than what i have.....also waiting on hearing back from ANTLIA or Agena via ANTLIA on the manner they would use to clean them so i dont ruin them or void a warranty(if there is one, unsure)



#25 Deeko76

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 03:15 PM

Where did you buy your Antlia filters from? I am looking for a SHO 36mm set. I am based in the UK.




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