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Fluorite forever!

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#1 25585

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 11:43 PM

Back in the early 1990s when I first saw a Vixen fluorite lensed refractor I started wanting a fluorite lensed refractor. It took almost 30 years to buy one, a Tak FC100DL. The wait was worth it.

 

Though there are equally excellent apos made now without fluoride lenses, that optical acorn "ingredient" planted in my one-day desire to own, remained. Nourished by retirement (out all night, sleep all day), more money saved, and realising that "its now or never", I acquired my 30 year long dream. Not once disappointed yet. In fact I have it separately itemised it in my will to go to my brother along with my TV Genesis.

 

While maker & brand supremacism are the joint zeitgeists of refractor enthusiasts, in public anyway, does anyone else choose optics, and especially fluoride, as first priority?

 

 

 

 


Edited by 25585, 09 July 2020 - 11:53 PM.

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#2 Erik Bakker

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 12:50 AM

For visual observations, the fluorite doublets are my favorites and the instruments of choice in the current production 2.4"-4" refractor aperture range. The sheer quality, purity and beauty of their images is unrivaled in their aperture range and they are always the first to reach their peak performance when putting scopes outside to observe with under the stars waytogo.gif

 

Current production fluorite doublet scopes like the FOA-60 and FC-100 DZ will likely be the gold standard in their aperture classes for years to come.


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#3 Bowlerhat

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 01:32 AM

Until new type of glass is found, it's still the best.


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#4 EricR

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 08:04 AM

I don't currently own any fluorite refractors but I will say this -- something always felt "special" about the views  in my old Stellarvue SV90T-BV with true Calcium Fluoride (CaF2) triplet lens. Often wish I had never sold it.


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#5 Scott in NC

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 09:10 AM

I don't currently own any fluorite refractors but I will say this -- something always felt "special" about the views  in my old Stellarvue SV90T-BV with true Calcium Fluoride (CaF2) triplet lens. Often wish I had never sold it.

I wish I still had my old one too.  But alas, it became a victim of the “I have way too many small refractors with similar apertures and focal lengths, and something has to go” conundrum.  


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#6 Paul G

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 11:51 AM

I understand and am glad you fulfilled your dream. Life is about the experiences. Enjoy!

 

Personally I pay no attention to the types of glass used, instead I rely on the maker's reputation for making well designed, well figured, smooth optics. I have three scopes with the same aperture from the same excellent manufacturer, using three different types of exotic glass, one of which is fluorite, one FPL53, one Hoya FCD100 (FPL53 contains fluorite). I see zero difference between the views. The only thing fluorite does is allow the manufacturer to make a somewhat faster scope of the same aperture and same color correction.


Edited by Paul G, 10 July 2020 - 11:56 AM.

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#7 payner

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 12:48 PM

I tend to mirror what Gus said. To me, it is first and foremost the reputation of the manufacturer and general design (the latter a personal variable I like to entertain/consider, but know a reputable manufacturer will have solid designs for each prescription).


Edited by payner, 10 July 2020 - 05:10 PM.

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#8 donadani

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 02:36 PM

One of my most liked scopes has an ED element made of FPL51 shocked.gif - as we all know it´s not only the ED element that counts but the combination of all glas and it´s forming.

 

But aside knowing that - of course only fluorite offers the real magic lol.gif waytogo.gif


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#9 barbie

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:54 PM

For visual observations, the fluorite doublets are my favorites and the instruments of choice in the current production 2.4"-4" refractor aperture range. The sheer quality, purity and beauty of their images is unrivaled in their aperture range and they are always the first to reach their peak performance when putting scopes outside to observe with under the stars waytogo.gif

 

Current production fluorite doublet scopes like the FOA-60 and FC-100 DZ will likely be the gold standard in their aperture classes for years to come.

Absolutely!! My  Tak 76mm F12.75

Fluorite Apo gives the purest images of anything in it's aperture class that I've ever owned!


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#10 gwlee

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 11:08 PM

does anyone else choose optics, and especially fluoride, as first priority?

No, I usually have a long list of optical, mechanical, and ergonomic requirements I am trying to satisfy with a new scope and try pick the scope that comes closest to balancing all of these requirements.

 

I think about the mount, tripod, and OTA as a system, and I am looking for the system that’s best suited for my use at my observing site, not necessarily the “best telescope” or the “best telescope glass.”


Edited by gwlee, 10 July 2020 - 11:15 PM.

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#11 Kim K

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 03:48 PM

w

#12 laedco58

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 05:30 PM

I’ll be putting my FC100DL to work tonight in the pasture equipped with the 1.6 Extender Q. It’s been a long stretch of cloudy/ rainy nights on my time off between work cycles. I’ll see how the fluorite stacks up against the likes of unknown lens materials in my NP 127, FCD100/ Lanthanum in my Stellarvue, and the borosilicate mirror in my Z12.waytogo.gif 
A sky full of stuff to look at, and no mosquitoes after a couple of frosts. 


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#13 Ihtegla Sar

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 09:46 PM

Back in the early 1990s when I first saw a Vixen fluorite lensed refractor I started wanting a fluorite lensed refractor. It took almost 30 years to buy one, a Tak FC100DL. The wait was worth it.

Though there are equally excellent apos made now without fluoride lenses, that optical acorn "ingredient" planted in my one-day desire to own, remained. Nourished by retirement (out all night, sleep all day), more money saved, and realising that "its now or never", I acquired my 30 year long dream. Not once disappointed yet. In fact I have it separately itemised it in my will to go to my brother along with my TV Genesis.

While maker & brand supremacism are the joint zeitgeists of refractor enthusiasts, in public anyway, does anyone else choose optics, and especially fluoride, as first priority?


I bought my DL under similar circumstances. Back in the 1990s I dreamed of a florite Genesis SDF that I saw in the Orion catalog and the Sky and Telescope and the Astronomy magazine ads. I did a fair amount of astronomy in the 1990s with an Astroscan and a C-8.

Then due to life circumstances and work schedules, I ended up taking about a 25 year hiatus from astronomy. Then in early 2019 I moved to a house that had a nice deck with a south western view and I realized I could do lunar and planetary observing in town deapite the light pollution and I also realized I could afford a four inch florite refractor.

I began my research and discovered Takahashi. Once I learned about the secind run FC100DL, I had to have one and I haven't been dissapointed. The second run DLs come with a microfocuser, which I use regularly for planetary work in difficult seeing.

The DL is a little long to travel with, so when a good deal came along for a used DF in excellent condition I bought it as well so now I have two four inch florite doublets. The DL stays at home and I take the DF when I travel to a dark site. It's short enough to take in carry on, so at some point I plan to fly south with it to get another look at the southern skies.

The DL has given some magical views of Mars from my driveway the past couple nights. Very happy with my pair of florite doubles for their wonderful sharp views, their light weight, their fast cool down, their portability and their overall look and feel.
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#14 paulsky

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 09:53 AM

If fluorite is similar to FPL-53, why the price difference is enormous?

Thanks,

paul.



#15 RAKing

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 10:04 AM

While maker & brand supremacism are the joint zeitgeists of refractor enthusiasts, in public anyway, does anyone else choose optics, and especially fluoride, as first priority?

 

Yes, fluorite is a big consideration, but it is not the only consideration for me.  Manufacturer reputation and the overall design specs are what ultimately drive my decision.

 

Having said that, both of my current scopes are CaF2 doublets. flowerred.gif

 

Cheers,

 

Ron


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#16 JuergenB

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 11:19 AM

If fluorite is similar to FPL-53, why the price difference is enormous?

Thanks,

paul.

No, Paul, not similar,

 

FPL-53 is a glass (as are the other FPL-XX), but fluorite (calcium fluoride, CaF2) is a crystal. Just the imagination of a pure crystal, compared to glass, an amorphous solified liquid, gives it a magical appeal (higher perceived value). But also, the optical properties are just almost similar, not equal. Fluorite has still an edge over FPL-53.

 

As concerns the manufacturing of a fluorite lens, the blank must be pure and uniform. Last not least, from what I heard, grinding and polishing requires a lot of care because fluorite is brittle.

 

Juergen


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#17 paulsky

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 10:27 AM

Juergen, thanks for your kind response.

Cheers,

Paul



#18 JuergenB

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 06:25 AM

You are welcome, Paul.

 

Cheers,

Juergen



#19 doctordub

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 10:24 AM

I’ll be putting my FC100DL to work tonight in the pasture equipped with the 1.6 Extender Q. It’s been a long stretch of cloudy/ rainy nights on my time off between work cycles. I’ll see how the fluorite stacks up against the likes of unknown lens materials in my NP 127, FCD100/ Lanthanum in my Stellarvue, and the borosilicate mirror in my Z12.waytogo.gif 
A sky full of stuff to look at, and no mosquitoes after a couple of frosts. 

I think you are going to have a great observing experience with that combination. A few Sundays ago I had my FS-152NSV out to evaluate my new Tak TOA Extender 1.6X and I was more than impressed. The Tak allways gave excellent Planetary views but with the extender it seemed to do better with the seeing even at low Altitude Jupiter. My son and some of his friends noticed me observing and wanted a look. A few that had not viewed before stated they did not know that you could get views like this from non professional equipment. Saturn was especially excellent at over 400X, banding on the globe, crepe ring, Cassini division, with etched clarity. Viewing with ease craterlets on Plato without excellent seeing was enjoyable. Hours passed without notice!

CS

Jonathan


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#20 laedco58

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 12:46 PM

I think you are going to have a great observing experience with that combination. A few Sundays ago I had my FS-152NSV out to evaluate my new Tak TOA Extender 1.6X and I was more than impressed. The Tak allways gave excellent Planetary views but with the extender it seemed to do better with the seeing even at low Altitude Jupiter. My son and some of his friends noticed me observing and wanted a look. A few that had not viewed before stated they did not know that you could get views like this from non professional equipment. Saturn was especially excellent at over 400X, banding on the globe, crepe ring, Cassini division, with etched clarity. Viewing with ease craterlets on Plato without excellent seeing was enjoyable. Hours passed without notice!

CS

Jonathan

 

Weather has been really turbulent in my area so seeing has not been so good for high magnification on the planets. Last Wednesday night I was able to observe With my DL with the 1.6 Extender Q with an 8 Ethos for 180X Saturn and Jupiter. On Mars I bumped up the mag a bit to 240X with a 6 ethos. Last night after 20 mph winds blowing all day the seeing was horrible. Anything shorter than 10 mm was too much. On the other hand transparency was extremely good. Panning the Milky Way with an O III and a 31 Nagler in the 127 more than made up for the horrible conditions viewing the planets. 


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#21 gnowellsct

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 06:43 PM

I think it's a fad.  I was assured many times on these groups that my FS128 was not a true apo.  Now I have the AP GT130 triplet.  I really liked the FS128's focal ratio of f/8.1, more than I thought I would.  But it was not more apo than my current apo.

 

It makes me roll my eyes to see everyone swearing by fluorite after years of being dissed about it as an FS128 owner (not a true apo was what was said).  

 

Greg N



#22 25585

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 04:29 AM

If a Vixen FL102 & Tak FS-102 were both being sold, $300 more for theTak, which would you all choose?



#23 roadi

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 05:20 AM

If a Vixen FL102 & Tak FS-102 were both being sold, $300 more for theTak, which would you all choose?

The Tak FS102


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#24 RAKing

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 06:59 AM

If a Vixen FL102 & Tak FS-102 were both being sold, $300 more for theTak, which would you all choose?

Tak.  Better build quality; better tube and focuser.


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#25 JeremySh

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 08:56 AM

If a Vixen FL102 & Tak FS-102 were both being sold, $300 more for theTak, which would you all choose?

Tak. Better build quality 


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