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Potential new paint for observatories

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10 replies to this topic

#1 Christopher Erickson

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 12:27 PM

This stuff is supposed to have a 98% reflectivity.

 

That would much better than insulative materials with high thermal inertia.

 

https://newatlas.com...n-98-suns-heat/

 


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#2 Terry White

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 01:27 PM

I read the article along with the comments. It sounds like a good idea, but I think more studies need to be done on the long-term stability of the paint and the effects of the paint's decomposition products on the environment before it's released into the wild.


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#3 Christopher Erickson

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 02:31 PM

I read the article along with the comments. It sounds like a good idea, but I think more studies need to be done on the long-term stability of the paint and the effects of the paint's decomposition products on the environment before it's released into the wild.

Several of the story comments are wildly clueless on Teflon and chemistry in general.

 

Teflon is so inert, non-adhering and non-reactive (also meaning non-toxic) that it took years before practical applications were found for it. It is less toxic and more benign than any other paint pigment or additive I am aware of.

 

98% reflectivity also means minimal degradation due to UV light, the highest-power and most damaging frequencies of light. It shouldn't be shedding into the environment as quickly as alternative paints.

 

Personally I would rather have a tiny bit of Teflon added to my local environment than 100 times that volume of titanium dioxide, which, under the right circumstances, is considered a carcinogen.

 

Jons Jacob Berzelius, a famous Swedish chemist once said (translated): "It would be much better for men to learn chemistry than to fear it"


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#4 Christopher Erickson

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 03:05 PM

Jons Jacob Berzelius's most famous quote is probably "A tidy laboratory is a sign of a lazy chemist."

 

I used this quote once in a while (to no effect) when confronted by my wife over the state of my machine shop and office.


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#5 Terry White

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 06:31 PM

I'm quite familar with the chemical, mechanical and electrical properties of Teflon, having used it for many applications during my career. However, I have seen other supposedly harmless plastics pushed into wide use only to later see these substances show up in our food, in our soil and in our oceans. As a scientist, I think society should exercise an abundance of caution and study any man-made substances first over timescales well in excess of their intended use, before these products are approved for widespread applications. It's the very chemical inertness of Teflon that is so beneficial in many applications that poses the greatest concern over time, especially if it formulated in microscopic paticles that do not biodegrade. Where will they accumulate? What effects will they have?


Edited by Terry White, 11 July 2020 - 07:39 PM.

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#6 outofdark

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 09:36 PM

+1

 

i can tottaly relate, both machine shop and office.  

 

 

Jons Jacob Berzelius's most famous quote is probably "A tidy laboratory is a sign of a lazy chemist."

 

I used this quote once in a while (to no effect) when confronted by my wife over the state of my machine shop and office.



#7 Christopher Erickson

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 01:11 AM

I'm quite familar with the chemical, mechanical and electrical properties of Teflon, having used it for many applications during my career. However, I have seen other supposedly harmless plastics pushed into wide use only to later see these substances show up in our food, in our soil and in our oceans. As a scientist, I think society should exercise an abundance of caution and study any man-made substances first over timescales well in excess of their intended use, before these products are approved for widespread applications. It's the very chemical inertness of Teflon that is so beneficial in many applications that poses the greatest concern over time, especially if it formulated in microscopic paticles that do not biodegrade. Where will they accumulate? What effects will they have?

So you are saying you prefer titanium dioxide in your local environment over Teflon.



#8 Terry White

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 10:36 AM

So you are saying you prefer titanium dioxide in your local environment over Teflon.

Please don't try put your spin on my comments. As I said earlier, "I think more studies need to be done on the long-term stability of the paint and the effects of the paint's decomposition products on the environment before it's released into the wild." In retrospect, had more rigorous safety standards been applied to titanium dioxide years ago, perhaps we wouldn't be in the position we find ourselves in now. 

 

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” -- George Santayana


Edited by Terry White, 12 July 2020 - 04:48 PM.


#9 Avgvstvs

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 07:08 PM

Titanium Dioxide is naturally occuring, PTFE is not

But we only have one planet to stuff up so far


Edited by Avgvstvs, 20 July 2020 - 07:18 PM.


#10 Achernar

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 12:21 PM

So you are saying you prefer titanium dioxide in your local environment over Teflon.

Titanium dioxide, or TiO2 is a naturally occurring material that forms the mineral rutile. We evolved in its presence. The same cannot be said for Teflon. Tiny nano particles of Teflon might be much more dangerous to us and the environment than over exposure to TiO2.

 

Taras


Edited by Achernar, 25 July 2020 - 12:28 PM.


#11 Christopher Erickson

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 08:38 PM

*SIGH*

 

Okay guys, time to get back under your bridges. (grin)

 

FWIW, the EPA lists titanium dioxide as a potential carcinogen (depends on particle size) and specifically says that Teflon is not. PFOA is a known carcinogen and is used in the manufacture of Teflon, but no PFOA remains in the Teflon after the manufacturing process is complete.

 

But hey, I don't care what you guys use to paint your observatories. I only provided what I felt was relevant and newsworthy information for observatory owners to be aware of and might find useful.

 

As for me, I am going to get on the outside of about 30 moles of dihydrogen monoxide and go back to viewing Sol through my Coronado-90 h-alpha filter on my Astro-Physics 92 Stowaway on top of my Rainbow Astro RST-135 harmonic-drive mount while getting inundated by tropical-and-highly-carcinogenic ultraviolet photons.

 

Life is rough!




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