Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Live View DSLR camera monitors

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 13 July 2020 - 04:39 AM

Looking for the beginner's Hardware thread for AP?? Is there one?

 

Specifically, doesn't anyone use a 7" monitor with a DSLR to help frame  & focus their reflector telescope images?

 

LIKE THIS: https://www.amazon.c...2dDbGljaz10cnVl

 

Thanks


Edited by chuck666, 13 July 2020 - 04:44 AM.


#2 Tapio

Tapio

    Mercury-Atlas

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,924
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2006
  • Loc: Tampere, Finland

Posted 13 July 2020 - 05:05 AM

I guess most of use use laptops or tablets.


  • scottmm2012, SilverLitz and chuck666 like this

#3 RSJ

RSJ

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 19 Oct 2017
  • Loc: Hagerstown, MD

Posted 13 July 2020 - 06:07 AM

I thought about using an external monitor using the mini-HDMI out from my Nikon, but that's another wire and bright screen to manage. Instead I use an Application named digiCamControl which controls the Nikon from my laptop and provides a Live View mode which is handy for focusing and framing.


  • OldManSky and chuck666 like this

#4 spereira

spereira

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 3,013
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2017
  • Loc: Bedford, NH

Posted 13 July 2020 - 07:08 AM

Moving to DSLR ...

 

smp


  • chuck666 likes this

#5 james7ca

james7ca

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,635
  • Joined: 21 May 2011
  • Loc: San Diego, CA

Posted 13 July 2020 - 07:40 AM

Yes, I've used a small battery-powered LCD with my DSLRs and mirrorless cameras for probably seven years or more (and some of my posts that mention these displays go back for two years). In fact, I purchased my second one of these just a few months ago (a higher resolution model that can be used as an emergency display for my scope side, normally headless mini PC). These displays make focusing a lot easier and in the case of my Nikon D5100 it makes the liveview from the camera almost usable (without the small LCD the liveview on the D5100 is pretty much useless).

 

Both are made by Lilliput and the older display actually gives a little brighter view, but the resolution is too low to be used as a display for a computer (my new Lilliput has a native resolution of 1920x1080 pixels and works great as a display for my mini PC -- although at 7 inches it's small but very sharp).

 

The only problem with these devices is that they run through their batteries (rechargeable) very quickly. For that reason it is probably better to power them from a larger 12VDC deep cycle or Lithium battery. Are these types of displays a necessity? No, but they can be useful.


  • chuck666 likes this

#6 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 13 July 2020 - 09:01 AM

Being a NOOB and 77 and starting a new hobby, I want to explore all choices and keep the $$$ black hole under control. LOL.

I receive my 114mm Orion reflector tomorrow and begin the journey. Having built and maintained PCs for years; that part doesn't worry me. Just want to find the best path to AP the objects in OUR sky. 

Thought the mini monitors might help me focus and find those galaxies better than  3" live view LCD? Don't have a laptop anymore and was trying to keep battery eaters to a minimum. Any other suggestions?

 

Basic starting equipment will be:

Canon unmodded 800D

Orion StarBlast II 4.5 EQ package #20710 (tripod, EQ1 mount, Easy finder, motor drive, etc)

Tring and Barlow 2x hardware

 

Thanks


Edited by chuck666, 13 July 2020 - 09:02 AM.


#7 Alen K

Alen K

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,497
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2009

Posted 13 July 2020 - 11:56 AM

Live View focusing works quite well on most camera's LCDs if you use 10x magnification. No real need for an external LCD. But that assumes in your case that you can reach focus without needing the Barlow. See this thread:

 

https://www.cloudyni...arblast-45-how/

 

If you need the Barlow, you are f/8 at 900mm. A little optically slow for nebula and galaxies and - far more of a problem - much too long a focal length for that little mount. Heck, 450mm is probably too much focal length for that mount but at least there would be a chance. 

 

I won't even get into the issues with using a 1.25-inch focuser, or of the 'scope's extreme coma at f/4. 

 

PS. Another useful thread:

https://www.cloudyni...a-starblast-45/

 

 

 


Edited by Alen K, 13 July 2020 - 12:05 PM.

  • Blackbelt76 and chuck666 like this

#8 Domtbol

Domtbol

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 36
  • Joined: 20 Apr 2019

Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:05 PM

I use an old 7 inch Android tablet connecting to a Canon 600D using a usb cable and I use  " DSLR Controller " app , it does everything I need, 

https://dslrcontroller.com/


  • chuck666 likes this

#9 Blackbelt76

Blackbelt76

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2019

Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:08 PM

Without a Bahtinov mask, DSLR focusing is tricky.

As mentioned earlier, I usually magnify in live view on a bright star close to my target object; seems to work just fine.

The other issue I have is that the focus collar on a DSLR in manual focus mode is prone to slipping.


  • chuck666 likes this

#10 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:18 PM

TY All & Allen for the links. I looked there earlier but missed them. ****.

 

Orion rep recommended the setup. Hope the focuser can handle the weight? I have 30 days to return.

 

I use a 10x loupe for focusing now. 

 

Also, the kit comes with 10 mm & 25 mm eye pieces, And I bought a tube assembly that will take the eye pieces. That should allow for shorter focal lengths??

 

I intend to stack photos; so shorter duration images could work?

 

I just want an image of Andromedaconfused1.gif ... And maybe others LOL


Edited by chuck666, 13 July 2020 - 03:38 PM.


#11 chanrobi

chanrobi

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 176
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2019

Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:36 PM

TY All & Allen for the links. I looked there earlier but missed them. ****.

 

Orion rep recommended the setup. Hope the focuser can handle the weight? I have 30 days to return.

 

Also, the kit comes with 10 mm & 25 mm eye pieces, And I bought a tube assembly that will take the eye pieces. That should allow for shorter focal lengths??

 

I intend to stack photos; so shorter duration images could work?

 

I just want an image of Andromedaconfused1.gif ... And maybe others LOL

IF M31 is all you want, DSLR + 135 mm or 200mm lens and done.

 

The target is huge and fits perfectly into those focal lengths
 


Edited by chanrobi, 13 July 2020 - 03:37 PM.


#12 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 13 July 2020 - 04:00 PM

IF M31 is all you want, DSLR + 135 mm or 200mm lens and done.

 

The target is huge and fits perfectly into those focal lengths
 

I'll try tonight with my 55-250 mm kit lens /f5.6. Bortle 7/8 skies. I can't see it with the naked eye!

 

bow.gif  



#13 Alen K

Alen K

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,497
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2009

Posted 13 July 2020 - 08:50 PM

Orion rep recommended the setup. Hope the focuser can handle the weight? I have 30 days to return.

 

I use a 10x loupe for focusing now. 

 

Also, the kit comes with 10 mm & 25 mm eye pieces, And I bought a tube assembly that will take the eye pieces. That should allow for shorter focal lengths??

 

I intend to stack photos; so shorter duration images could work?

 

I just want an image of Andromedaconfused1.gif ... And maybe others LOL

The strength of the focuser is certainly suspect.

 

Re the 10x loupe, that won't work very well. It will just magnify the pixels on the LCD. But you don't need it. Instead, activate the magnification of the camera's Live View function. After pressing the Live View button, press the Magnify button a few times until you reach maximum. 

 

Re the tube assembly that will take eyepieces, I assume that is actually a Barlow lens. It will magnify the view through those eyepieces by two times. It will also magnify the image into the camera by two times if you insert the Barlow ahead of your T-adapter. That could well be the only way you'll get the camera to focus. If so, as I said before, deep-sky astrophotography through that telescope will not really be practical. It will, at best, be very difficult. 

 

Generally speaking, short exposures can certainly work. By "short" with a telescope, I mean 30 seconds minimum. With today's cameras, which have relatively low noise, stacking many of those can get you close to what longer exposures can do. But in your case, will that mount allow for thirty-second exposures? I seriously doubt it, even if you could shoot without the Barlow at 450mm focal length. 

 

Now, even if deep-sky astrophotography isn't practical through that telescope, there is still much you can do with it. You can take photos of the moon and of the brighter planets (Jupiter and Saturn). And you can piggyback your camera to it and take deep-sky images through the camera's lens. I don't know of anything else you could buy for $210 (Orion's price for the package) that will do both of those things, not to mention being probably not half bad for visual. (It does have a parabaloidal mirror, which some budget reflectors lack.)

 

I'll try tonight with my 55-250 mm kit lens /f5.6. Bortle 7/8 skies. I can't see it with the naked eye!

Just so you know, in Bortle 7/8 skies you are going to need to take and stack a LOT of exposures to get an image of M31 that is more than just a featureless smudge. At f/5.6, I estimate you will need at least 80 minutes to barely see some spiral-arm structure (based on my own images in different skies). You likely won't be able to expose for much more than 30 seconds, so that means a lot of exposures. Of course, thirty-second exposures will require tracking. 


Edited by Alen K, 13 July 2020 - 09:04 PM.


#14 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 13 July 2020 - 09:34 PM

Alen, really appreciate the hand holding,smile.gif I use the loupe after I do 10x live view. It's pretty effective.

 

No tracker yet. WAS PLANNING ON 200, 1s exposures to have NO trails. LOL That's no where near 80 min.

 

Think, I'll return the system. Unopened. And re think my add a tracker to my camera system approach.

 

I really see myself getting maybe images of the top 25 targets that are so beautiful. By age 80 in 3 years, I'll be into something else. 

 

The last 2 years I updated my audio system 5.2.4 Atmos sound. Before that, a 4K full video upgrade;

 

See the trend..............lol.gif

 

TY. again. Chuck



#15 james7ca

james7ca

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,635
  • Joined: 21 May 2011
  • Loc: San Diego, CA

Posted 13 July 2020 - 10:38 PM

To repeat, it's been my experience that these small field monitors CAN help when imaging with a DSLR or mirrorless camera (and that's even in comparison to using the zoom feature on the camera's liveview). In fact, you can combine the zoom or magnify feature on the camera with the one that is included in the monitor. Plus, it's just a lot easier to see things on a seven inch display (perhaps even in full HD) than it is on a resolution-reduced two inch display on the back of a camera. Also, the field monitor can be kept at a convenient height and orientation when in use, something that may not be possible when using the display on the camera (even if that is an adjustable, "flip" style display).

 

But, my experience is just on several fairly old Nikon and Sony cameras with two different seven inch monitors. That said, you have to be your own guide in deciding whether it is worth the extra money and I payed $160 for my most recent 1920x1200 Lilliput field monitor (did not include a battery, which can be fairly expensive). Given that it can also be used as a display for my mini PC that's a fairly good deal (IMO). Plus, if you are doing planetary imaging (particularly on the moon) then these kinds of displays are even more useful. However, you certainly don't have to have one of these types of displays to use your DSLR or mirrorless camera, since the small back-of-camera display will work pretty well in most situations.

 

I should add that I tried Backyard Nikon to see if that app's liveview and focus ability was better than what I could get with my field monitor and my conclusion was that I'll stick with my field monitor.

 

Thus, YMMV.


Edited by james7ca, 14 July 2020 - 09:03 AM.

  • chuck666 likes this

#16 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 14 July 2020 - 04:04 AM

^^^^^^^^^ TY James ^^^^^^^^

 

bangbang.gif



#17 t_image

t_image

    Gemini

  • -----
  • Posts: 3,390
  • Joined: 22 Jul 2015

Posted 14 July 2020 - 07:35 AM

Looking for the beginner's Hardware thread for AP?? Is there one?

 

Specifically, doesn't anyone use a 7" monitor with a DSLR to help frame  & focus their reflector telescope images?


Thanks

 

chucksatan,

et. al.:

 

good question. I'm sorry you didn't find a good set of responses in such a short time.

 

I see you may be new to CN.

Lesson to many posters:

If you take a look around to find threads with interesting questions and the best answers, you may find there isn't a usual turn-around of <24hrs to crowdsource the best answers.

 

Methinks you may not fully have decided on your requirements for 'AP', especially in that many of the answers above have been tunnel-visioned unnecessarily although helpful.

 

You might take a look in the "Electronically Assisted Astronomy" where optics, a sensor, and displays of all types are utilized for both live-view and images after.

 

FWIW I use a specific Sony that has a live 4K UHD video output to my portable 32" or 40" displays

https://www.cloudyni...-field-monitor/

power isn't any more a hassle than planning to power a tracking mount. And fwiw, the latest displays that are HDR-like are built with tech that allows you to turn brightness way down===my 40" (bright settings for dark location) draws less power than a charging laptop computer.....

 

I find small stars on a small monitor are an unnecessary challenge.

Although I don't think many DSLRs can output a 4K signal.

 

Of course the best recommend is find an observing club out where you are and see if there are folks that have gear they can show you[non corona times] before you invest.

Otherwise EAA, CN etc. has a wealth of info but many might be off at work and not staring at their phones answering forums all the time. Especially the tech-friendly peeps.

 

enjoy AZ and stay safe!


  • chuck666 likes this

#18 astrohamp

astrohamp

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 153
  • Joined: 01 Jan 2020
  • Loc: Massachusetts

Posted 14 July 2020 - 08:57 AM

I too use a Lilliput a7s mini monitor for focusing.  Also as the computer monitor when NUC computer issues arise at the mount.


  • chuck666 likes this

#19 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 14 July 2020 - 12:51 PM

Thanks T and astro for your thoughts. I will go to the EAA and have a look/see.

 

Chuck 



#20 chuck666

chuck666

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Surprise, Arizona

Posted 15 July 2020 - 03:44 PM

Well, I believe should close this thread. I believe my level of commitment to AP is more toward EAA. Thanks all.

 

I did get my 4,5 Star Blast II delivered and set it up with some modes. The tripod is NOT sufficient for a reflector and a 800D Canon camera; as others warned. I had a SW tripod and put its legs on the SB base. Much better. The camera would only focus with the 2x Barlow as expected. BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT, the setup could NOT be balanced. Too much stuff hanging all over and the 1.25 focuser looked very stressed to me. Again, someone foresaw that issue. So, on to EAA and determine what entry level camera, I need.

 

Thanks ALL, Chuck



#21 Alen K

Alen K

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,497
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2009

Posted 15 July 2020 - 07:57 PM

Sounds like a good plan. EAA cameras are generally much lighter and you don't need nearly the back focus, i.e., the focuser will not be stressed as much and one of those will likely come to focus without the Barlow lens. And you will really see quite a lot even through a 4.25-inch reflector in a light polluted sky. You can also do somewhat longer exposures (say, a few seconds) and stack those to produce images.  


Edited by Alen K, 15 July 2020 - 07:58 PM.



CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics