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Meade 10" LX200 ACF with broken lens, what to do?

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#1 white1ce

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:06 PM

Today I received a Meade 10" LX200, and unfortunately the lens is broken. I have already put in a claim with UPS, but what is my move? Can this even be repaired or is my best bet buying a new 10inch OTA and removing the fork and putting it on the new one? Has anyone done that and is it a pain or not that difficult? 

 

Here is a picture of the lens: https://imgur.com/a/imeTurM


Edited by white1ce, 13 July 2020 - 03:07 PM.


#2 otocycle

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:30 PM

Sorry to see that your OTA was damaged in transit.   Unfortunately, your corrector plate replacement options are very limited and the cost would not be justified vs. buying a different new or used OTA.

 

There was a service across the pond that offered replacement plates a few years ago, just to give you an idea of the cost back then (in Euros).     Don't know if this is still available.

 

https://www.toscanop...corrector-plate

 

 

Here is an example of the work required to "de-fork" a Meade OTA (and reverse the process) if you want to keep your LX200 base/fork for a replacement 10" OTA.   Just make sure the fork arms and fitment will be compatible with the replacement.

 

https://www.cabrillo...0OTA/index.html



#3 Bean614

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:41 PM

The UPS claim will most likely be denied.  Further, the Shipper, the person you bought ir from, and who arranged for the shipping, MUST be the person to file the claim.  Then, when the seller's claim is denied,  the Seller must send you a full refund.  UPS will then pick up the broken unit, and return it to the seller, or they will keep it, should the claim be approved.

Meade is in Bankruptcy.   Don't expect too much from them. 


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#4 white1ce

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:47 PM

Sorry to see that your OTA was damaged in transit.   Unfortunately, your corrector plate replacement options are very limited and the cost would not be justified vs. buying a different new or used OTA.

 

There was a service across the pond that offered replacement plates a few years ago, just to give you an idea of the cost back then (in Euros).     Don't know if this is still available.

 

https://www.toscanop...corrector-plate

 

 

Here is an example of the work required to "de-fork" a Meade OTA (and reverse the process) if you want to keep your LX200 base/fork for a replacement 10" OTA.   Just make sure the fork arms and fitment will be compatible with the replacement.

 

https://www.cabrillo...0OTA/index.html

Thanks, it just feels weird throwing the unit in the garbage, but I don't want to sink more money into something that won't be the same.

 

 

 

The UPS claim will most likely be denied.  Further, the Shipper, the person you bought ir from, and who arranged for the shipping, MUST be the person to file the claim.  Then, when the seller's claim is denied,  the Seller must send you a full refund.  UPS will then pick up the broken unit, and return it to the seller, or they will keep it, should the claim be approved.

Meade is in Bankruptcy.   Don't expect too much from them. 

It was shipped from a UPS store, I paid a significant amount for them to inspect/package it. The claim has already been filed through the UPS store.


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#5 otocycle

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:54 PM

Thanks, it just feels weird throwing the unit in the garbage, but I don't want to sink more money into something that won't be the same.

 

 

Roger that, but the reality and economics just don't add up for rescuing the broken OTA.    Somebody may want it for parts.  
 



#6 Bean614

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 03:55 PM

Great!  Very smart move!  Take the money, try something similar, new with warranty,  from Celestron  perhaps.  A 9.25 or 11 come to mind, Edge or Standard.



#7 white1ce

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 04:05 PM

Roger that, but the reality and economics just don't add up for rescuing the broken OTA.    Somebody may want it for parts.  
 

Total bummer.

 

Great!  Very smart move!  Take the money, try something similar, new with warranty,  from Celestron  perhaps.  A 9.25 or 11 come to mind, Edge or Standard.

Unfortunately, I sold my smaller one a few months ago. Was about to buy the Meade LX90 10" brand new, found this used for an incredible deal and pulled the trigger. So, super disappointing. 



#8 white1ce

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 04:07 PM

Here is a dumb question, what if I just remove the broken lens? I understand it won't be the same, but....



#9 otocycle

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 04:14 PM

Here is a dumb question, what if I just remove the broken lens? I understand it won't be the same, but....

Then it will just be a Cassegrain with a spherical primary and associated spherical aberrations (no Schmidt corrector plate).    Also, you have to support the secondary somehow.  Try it out with an eyepiece to see the impact.


Edited by otocycle, 13 July 2020 - 04:16 PM.


#10 junomike

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 04:21 PM

Here is a dumb question, what if I just remove the broken lens? I understand it won't be the same, but....

how will you support the Secondary mirror?

Also the glass is not regular glass.



#11 markb

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 05:47 PM

The collector plate is what removes the spherical aberration, so plain glass will be terrible, I'm not aware of any correcting lenses available.

 

Celestron would do the C11 replacement for somewhere in the $300 to $400 range, I assume Meade would be similar but the bankruptcy, whether liquidation or reorganization, would put you at financial risk of losing both money and telescope. plus, I believe you have to eat the shipping both ways.

 

Correctors are not readily swappable, however, it has been done fairly, to barely, successfully. There is a fair likelihood of an optical mismatch since they are supposedly matched for 'power'.

 

Sadly, I have heard and personally had nothing but issues with UPS, I would never use them to ship even a brick (despite their delivery personnel being absolutely lovely most of the time; the damage is done before it gets on the truck I assume). I would expect the brick to arrive chipped or broken.

 

They are sadly notorious for denying claims, however, it is my understanding that if it is packed by a UPS store that someone, whether the UPS or the store itself, will honor the claim eventually.

 

I agree with the prior post, that if the claim is not honored , you will likely look towards the seller to have your money refunded, but that will certainly depend on the cellar, and they may insist on it being sent back. By FedEx ground next time, please. Often shipping is actually the buyers risk, but most telescope sellers would treat ot as their own risk and make good, unless you insisted on a specific method as it appears you did here.

 

As far as what to do with it then, I'm sure you will find a market for someone to buy the remains, likely at a fraction of what you paid, but there are enough people out here they would like to experiment with a broken large SCT. I would.

 

I bought, at 1/4 the usual price, a M8 with a bad secondary coating, later found to also have been misassembled by the factory, horribly misassembled, but more than got my money's worth of fun learning how the design works, eventually turning it into a decent performer pending a recoat.

 

I believe there are always people looking to replace a nonworking lx200 mount, so you should be able to sell that separately for reasonable amount of money.

 

Tripod too, if it was part of your package. Heavy tripods are getting tough to find, and expensive.

 

Good luck with the claim, if not, good luck with selling the parts, they'll go.


Edited by markb, 13 July 2020 - 05:52 PM.


#12 white1ce

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 07:56 PM

The collector plate is what removes the spherical aberration, so plain glass will be terrible, I'm not aware of any correcting lenses available.

 

Celestron would do the C11 replacement for somewhere in the $300 to $400 range, I assume Meade would be similar but the bankruptcy, whether liquidation or reorganization, would put you at financial risk of losing both money and telescope. plus, I believe you have to eat the shipping both ways.

 

Correctors are not readily swappable, however, it has been done fairly, to barely, successfully. There is a fair likelihood of an optical mismatch since they are supposedly matched for 'power'.

 

Sadly, I have heard and personally had nothing but issues with UPS, I would never use them to ship even a brick (despite their delivery personnel being absolutely lovely most of the time; the damage is done before it gets on the truck I assume). I would expect the brick to arrive chipped or broken.

 

They are sadly notorious for denying claims, however, it is my understanding that if it is packed by a UPS store that someone, whether the UPS or the store itself, will honor the claim eventually.

 

I agree with the prior post, that if the claim is not honored , you will likely look towards the seller to have your money refunded, but that will certainly depend on the cellar, and they may insist on it being sent back. By FedEx ground next time, please. Often shipping is actually the buyers risk, but most telescope sellers would treat ot as their own risk and make good, unless you insisted on a specific method as it appears you did here.

 

As far as what to do with it then, I'm sure you will find a market for someone to buy the remains, likely at a fraction of what you paid, but there are enough people out here they would like to experiment with a broken large SCT. I would.

 

I bought, at 1/4 the usual price, a M8 with a bad secondary coating, later found to also have been misassembled by the factory, horribly misassembled, but more than got my money's worth of fun learning how the design works, eventually turning it into a decent performer pending a recoat.

 

I believe there are always people looking to replace a nonworking lx200 mount, so you should be able to sell that separately for reasonable amount of money.

 

Tripod too, if it was part of your package. Heavy tripods are getting tough to find, and expensive.

 

Good luck with the claim, if not, good luck with selling the parts, they'll go.

I appreciate the thorough explanation. What about buying a new OTA and putting it into the fork? I've googled it and everything I find says it's extremely difficult, but these were all articles written 10+ years ago, so I'm not sure if anything has changed.



#13 sunrag

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Posted 13 July 2020 - 08:12 PM

It is tough to see this happen to a good telescope. From the picture it looks like the secondary fell on top of the primary, so now all 3 optical elements are suspect. Since the OTA is damaged, you can try to remove it without too much remorse from the base, and definitely use the fork mount for other OTAs.

 

One suggestion is to take this opportunity to make the mount separate from the OTA. The 10" fork mount + OTA is a beast to carry as one piece. I was thinking of modifying the two saddles on the fork arms by fitting them with dovetails. Then you can slide in any 10" OTA with suitable dovetails on it. (or you can use put a 8" OTA with 1" spacers).

 

Good luck!


Edited by sunrag, 13 July 2020 - 08:15 PM.


#14 markb

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 08:33 AM

The link in post #2 covers the process pretty well, and it appears quite similar to other SCTs I've deforked.

 

The OTA is very heavy, so I would not under any circumstances suggest doing it alone.

 

Much depends on your mechanical ability, those with little mechanical experience must make sure they can handle all the steps before even starting. but it certainly does not look like a difficult job in any way other than handling the off-center masses involved. But those lacking confidence and ability with tools, not just information, should avoid even thinking about a tube swap without help.

 

I would use good mechanics grade Allen T wrenches or mechanics grade Allen sockets on a socket wrench if the Allen bolts are indeed that tight or lock-tited. Damaging the interior of an allen head is not a fun way to start disassembly.

 

The other hitch could be bolt patterns and any possible variants in mounting point diameters.

 

20 years ago I bought a GPS 11 base and a slightly older C11, and the threaded hole bolt patterns were completely incompatible. Due to work issues I never found the block of time necessary to research safe disassembly and tapping. After retirement, suffering through correcting alignment issues on two SCTs, I now can handle the disassembly and tapping process which I will complete after I move.

 

So swapping in a different OTA could be very problematic unless you can verify all mounting points are identical. Meade is unlikely to be of any help, even getting a replacement corrector retainer for a M8 years ago took several phone calls and was like pulling teeth, and that was a simple swap requiring no specific information.


Edited by markb, 14 July 2020 - 08:41 AM.


#15 white1ce

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 11:38 AM

The link in post #2 covers the process pretty well, and it appears quite similar to other SCTs I've deforked.

 

The OTA is very heavy, so I would not under any circumstances suggest doing it alone.

 

Much depends on your mechanical ability, those with little mechanical experience must make sure they can handle all the steps before even starting. but it certainly does not look like a difficult job in any way other than handling the off-center masses involved. But those lacking confidence and ability with tools, not just information, should avoid even thinking about a tube swap without help.

 

I would use good mechanics grade Allen T wrenches or mechanics grade Allen sockets on a socket wrench if the Allen bolts are indeed that tight or lock-tited. Damaging the interior of an allen head is not a fun way to start disassembly.

 

The other hitch could be bolt patterns and any possible variants in mounting point diameters.

 

20 years ago I bought a GPS 11 base and a slightly older C11, and the threaded hole bolt patterns were completely incompatible. Due to work issues I never found the block of time necessary to research safe disassembly and tapping. After retirement, suffering through correcting alignment issues on two SCTs, I now can handle the disassembly and tapping process which I will complete after I move.

 

So swapping in a different OTA could be very problematic unless you can verify all mounting points are identical. Meade is unlikely to be of any help, even getting a replacement corrector retainer for a M8 years ago took several phone calls and was like pulling teeth, and that was a simple swap requiring no specific information.

Thanks again for the info, likely far more complicated than what I want to deal with.



#16 DSOGabe

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 02:50 PM

Today I received a Meade 10" LX200, and unfortunately the lens is broken. I have already put in a claim with UPS, but what is my move? Can this even be repaired or is my best bet buying a new 10inch OTA and removing the fork and putting it on the new one? Has anyone done that and is it a pain or not that difficult? 

 

Here is a picture of the lens: https://imgur.com/a/imeTurM

Why buy a whole scope only to defork it? Much cheaper and easier to simply buy the OTA. Meade offers the plain OTA. 

I had a Meade LX200 that I planned to defork. I spoke with Meade but got the warning that once removed, its difficult to re-mount. Something about properly re-aligning the gears (its been a while and and can't recall exact words). I understand that its feels like throwing good money after bad, but maybe getting a OTA and GEM instead. You can always try to sell the forks; someone is always looking for parts.



#17 dustyc

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 09:02 PM

Thanks, it just feels weird throwing the unit in the garbage, but I don't want to sink more money into something that won't be the same.

 

 

 

It was shipped from a UPS store, I paid a significant amount for them to inspect/package it. The claim has already been filed through the UPS store.

The UPS stores I've dealt with have told me that even if they pack it, since it has glass they won't cover it. Let us know how the claim goes. I would have loved to be able to ship a scope across the country (opens up the pool of interested buyers) but that risk has tempered my euthuasim. 

Good luck!



#18 white1ce

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 03:05 PM

The UPS stores I've dealt with have told me that even if they pack it, since it has glass they won't cover it. Let us know how the claim goes. I would have loved to be able to ship a scope across the country (opens up the pool of interested buyers) but that risk has tempered my euthuasim. 

Good luck!

Still waiting, but I've read the T&Cs a hundred times and just did again after what you said and there is nothing about glass.



#19 RJ80

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:21 PM

If a UPS store packaged it, they should be held responsible for any damage regardless of what is inside. If nothing else, filing a small claims lawsuit in your local courthouse is typically easy and inexpensive to do. It will also require UPS to fly their lawyer to your locale to defend the case. At that point, they will probably acquiesce and simply pay out on the claim since that is the cheaper option for them. 

 

I do agree with others that if you self packaged the OTA, you're likely out of luck. 

 

Meade's bankruptcy is far, far overblown by many members here. The company will restructure, dump its debt obligations to creditors, and again be a viable company. It's the American way!




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