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Looking for an 10" Dobsonian

reflector observing equipment dso
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#26 dlagoeka0217

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 12:31 AM

+1 I own one & its never disappointed me.

 

https://explorescien...ht-10-dobsonian

 

 

I agree with the last 2 posters and suggest looking at the Explore Scientific First Light (Bresser in Europe).  It's not so well known as it hasn't been out long.  Here's a link: https://explorescien...ht-10-dobsonian

 

FL-DOB1005-01_1800x1800.jpg?v=1573839817

 

A couple of years ago I spent time in a number of shops comparing commercial Dobsonians soon after the First Light came out.  In the end I bought an upmarket used Orion Optics UK (not to be confused with Orion US).  However the First Light was my second choice. It's also highly thought of by a number of members of the UK-based Stargazer's Lounge forum who have used it in the field, and a search there will reveal several topics.

 

One of the most overlooked parts of a Dob is the mount.  It's easy to upgrade the accessories, but not the mount.  Therefore I feel that this is possibly the most important factor in choosing which make to buy. 

 

The First Light has large altitude rings.  Firstly, this makes it smoother.  Secondly, it's much easier to carry the tube as you can use the altitude ring to do so.  In fact an able-bodied person should be able to carry the tube in one hand and the mount in the other. Being somewhat disabled this allowed me to buy a 10 inch compared with only an 8 inch with makes without an altitude ring.

 

The Bresser also has tube rings.  This makes it easier to balance different weight eyepieces and accessories, and also rotate the tube.  It also means it's easier and less costly to convert to an equatorial mount later if you want to.

 

Some other features:

 

Primary mirror: made from low expansion glass so cools down ready to view quicker.

 

Focusser: A very good heavy duty focusser that you can easily convert at low cost to dual speed for easier fine adjustment.

 

Eyepieces: Only 1 but it's higher quality than with some competitors.  Many buyers of the poorer quality eyepieces quickly upgrade them anyway, which of course adds to the cost

 

IMO, the First Light is well worth the small amount extra money.  You'll forget this very soon but will appreciate the advantages for a long time.

 

 

That 10" ES is a nice looking scope. The rings plus large altitude bearings will make for a good viewing experience.

 

The only issue I see on that is it appears to have a single speed focuser. Not a deal breaker, but a dual speed would be nice.

 

There's a truss version at costco too, same deal with the focuser it seems.

 

https://www.costco.c....100505499.html

Oh okay :) I really appreciate your comments!!!!! I should really consider the 10" ES and Explore Scientific! I am really learning a lot of variety of telescopes from all of you! Thank you!



#27 dlagoeka0217

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 12:34 AM

I researched dobs last winter and settled on the 10" class size as I thought a 12" F5 would be a bit on the large side for my vehicle. Still not sure I made the right choice there, but I wound up with an AD10. The included accessories at the price point were what sold me, though I was sorely tempted by the Costo version of the ES truss tube 10" dob ($599). It's a stripped down version of their 'standard' 10" truss dob ($949) but still seems to be a good buy. I didn't even consider the ES First Light 10" dob because I didn't realize it existed. If I were in the market again I'd be interested in that model as well for the same reason others have mentioned - larger altitude bearings and tube rings are a plus.

Having said all that, I like my AD10 and I'm not tempted to sell it and pick up either of the ES options. It holds collimation well and is easily manageable, plus I've had fun adding upgrades. It's a 'push-to' dob now after adding the EZ Push-To kit from Romer Optics ($100), which is something you can't do with the ES scopes. Unless someone comes along and wants to trade me their AD12 or Z12 for my AD10 and some cash, I'm keeping it and will eventually convert to Go-to with Onstep.

Oh! Awesome! I never knew I could get a push-to separately. That would make me have a variety of options! I thought if I wanted a push-to, then the only option would be the Orion XT10i (included with a push to), but now I understood that I'd be able to buy the romer optics push-to separately! Thank you so much for your reply! :)



#28 dlagoeka0217

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 12:38 AM

There's a quick and easy upgrade to dual speed that Explore Scientific/Bresser offer.

 

 

 

 

This thread has good pix of the ES bits in detail

https://stargazerslo...essier-10”-dob/

 

 

10" newt on an equatorial mount? Possible, of course, but not a great experience.  This is how dobs became popular in the first place.

I'll check out how the ES is and do some more research on the ES! It's surprising to know that it's on a equatorial mount though. I think it would be a good option as well in some partssmile.gif Thank you so much all!


Edited by dlagoeka0217, 23 July 2020 - 12:38 AM.


#29 dlagoeka0217

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 12:39 AM

Wow that is awesome! :)



#30 dlagoeka0217

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 12:42 AM

I agree with the last 2 posters and suggest looking at the Explore Scientific First Light (Bresser in Europe).  It's not so well known as it hasn't been out long.  Here's a link: https://explorescien...ht-10-dobsonian

 

FL-DOB1005-01_1800x1800.jpg?v=1573839817

 

A couple of years ago I spent time in a number of shops comparing commercial Dobsonians soon after the First Light came out.  In the end I bought an upmarket used Orion Optics UK (not to be confused with Orion US).  However the First Light was my second choice. It's also highly thought of by a number of members of the UK-based Stargazer's Lounge forum who have used it in the field, and a search there will reveal several topics.

 

One of the most overlooked parts of a Dob is the mount.  It's easy to upgrade the accessories, but not the mount.  Therefore I feel that this is possibly the most important factor in choosing which make to buy. 

 

The First Light has large altitude rings.  Firstly, this makes it smoother.  Secondly, it's much easier to carry the tube as you can use the altitude ring to do so.  In fact an able-bodied person should be able to carry the tube in one hand and the mount in the other. Being somewhat disabled this allowed me to buy a 10 inch compared with only an 8 inch with makes without an altitude ring.

 

The Bresser also has tube rings.  This makes it easier to balance different weight eyepieces and accessories, and also rotate the tube.  It also means it's easier and less costly to convert to an equatorial mount later if you want to.

 

Some other features:

 

Primary mirror: made from low expansion glass so cools down ready to view quicker.

 

Focusser: A very good heavy duty focusser that you can easily convert at low cost to dual speed for easier fine adjustment.

 

Eyepieces: Only 1 but it's higher quality than with some competitors.  Many buyers of the poorer quality eyepieces quickly upgrade them anyway, which of course adds to the cost

 

IMO, the First Light is well worth the small amount extra money.  You'll forget this very soon but will appreciate the advantages for a long time.

Also, thank you so much for such a detailed reply! I'm really getting the big picture of the features :)
I really appreciate your explanation! :)


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#31 stevenrjanssens

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 01:56 AM

Hello! Thank you so much for your reply! I'm actually new to a dob (I actually only used a refractor before.) Will you explain to me what the Telrad is used for, and possibly link me a product that you recommend? Also, for the RACI finder too! Thank you smile.gif

Happy you're catching up, looks like you've received a lot of good info. The RACI finder is easy, the AD10 will come with one if you choose to go this route. The others will also come with a finder scope, but some are straight through without a diagonal which is much less ergonomic IMO.

 

The Telrad is a 1x finder that makes it very easy to line up that first star for star hopping either with the RACI finder (typically ~8x magnification) or a low power eyepiece. But what sets the Telrad apart from other red dot finders are the 0.5°, 2° and 4° rings—with notches—it projects onto the sky. You can then overlay this pattern on your star charts (the SkySafari app makes this dead easy, but paper atlases typically come with Telrad rings as well). If your skies are dark enough, you can often match the position of the rings to stars in your chart to move the scope directly onto your target. Here's a link to its product page on astronomics:

 

https://www.astronom...s-and-base.html



#32 havasman

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 08:28 AM

Hello! Thank you! I'm really happy to join this forum! I really appreciate your specific explanation smile.gif I've got a lot of information and a big picture from your recommendation and replies on my questions! Where did you buy the XT10i or the other accessories? I heard buying it from Amazon might be too dangerous. I'd like to buy it from a reliable seller, and possibly some more discounts.

When I bought my first telescope I knew NOTHING about amateur astronomy, astro magazines or Cloudy Nights. I just thought I wanted a scope. I found my XT10i on ebay and bought it from somebody I did not know. I am the 4th owner but I got lucky and everything worked. I do not recommend that option as the risks of buying a less than serviceable scope are relatively high.

 

I recommend you buy from Orion via  -  https://www.telescop...pe/p/102013.uts

or from a seller you may find on AstroMart  -   -  which is a well controlled site that you must pay $15/year to use but sellers are identified clearly.


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#33 n2dpsky

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 11:07 AM

Hello Chris,
Thank you so much for your response smile.gif Is the flextube much portable compared to other one-tubed telescopes? I'd like to take it to a nearby hill, but unfortunately the stairs up to the hill doesn't allow cars to go up. I might have to take the telescope all the way up. Also, for your recommendation of a closed tube version telescope, may you add a link for me please? Thank you:)

As for weight, you don't save much there.  The big thing it that it shrinks by about a foot in height.   That may make the difference between comfortably getting it into a car/storage space or not.    You'd definitely want to carry the rocker box and tube separately.   I just weighed my tube with no finder and it's 36 lbs.    Assuming space isn't a concern, I don't think you can go wrong with either a closed tube or the flex-tube.  The flex-tube would need a shroud over the trusses to improve contrast, so that's an added expense and although it holds collimation quite well, the close tube might do a slightly better job.  Both types of telescope would offer excellent performance.    I've been pretty impressed with the Sky-Watcher dobs.  Nice build and optical quality.  I am also familiar with those made by GSO and they are also fine telescopes. I think you would be happy with either, so I'd recommend shopping by feature/price.    If you don't need the space savings, I'd look at the closed tubes.  I will say I love mine and would buy another if something happened to mine.

 

I'm tall so I also built a platform to raise the eyepiece up a bit, added an astrozap light shroud, telrad, cooling fan and just flocked my upper tube assembly yesterday.    Hope this helps and good luck.

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#34 stargazer193857

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 12:03 AM

The stands people put their 8" and 10" dobs on sure does scream how much they prefer a 60" focal length.

Do you think a 50" or even 55" focal length would be preferable to a teenager?


...

After looking at charts, it seems a 9 year old would need 50" but could stand on a step ladder, and a 13 year old could peer into a scope of 60" FL. Pretty much if they can move it, they can see into it, otherwise a ladder works.

Edited by stargazer193857, 24 July 2020 - 12:12 AM.

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#35 Second Time Around

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 03:20 AM

Like many, I much prefer to observe sitting down. Not only is it more comfortable but I can actually see more, especially threshold objects.

So for me, raising my 1200mm (just under 48 inch) scopes isn't needed at all.
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#36 NC Startrekker

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 08:47 AM

The stands people put their 8" and 10" dobs on sure does scream how much they prefer a 60" focal length.

Do you think a 50" or even 55" focal length would be preferable to a teenager?


...

After looking at charts, it seems a 9 year old would need 50" but could stand on a step ladder, and a 13 year old could peer into a scope of 60" FL. Pretty much if they can move it, they can see into it, otherwise a ladder works.

The tradeoff becomes diminishing FOV.  60" FL would make the 10" f/6 and the 8" f/7.5.  But hose focal ratios would make them quite nice planetary reflectors if the optics were of good quality.



#37 stargazer193857

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 09:56 AM

The tradeoff becomes diminishing FOV. 60" FL would make the 10" f/6 and the 8" f/7.5. But hose focal ratios would make them quite nice planetary reflectors if the optics were of good quality.

A hair over one degree with a 1.25" eyepiece. Putting a coma corrector in an f5 is only 9% bigger. Plenty of tradeoffs.



Good news is we only must choose between f4.7 and f5. Orion is f4.7, and zhumell is f5.

Edited by stargazer193857, 24 July 2020 - 10:02 AM.


#38 Steve Cox

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 04:22 PM

The tradeoff becomes diminishing FOV.  60" FL would make the 10" f/6 and the 8" f/7.5.  But hose focal ratios would make them quite nice planetary reflectors if the optics were of good quality.

Actually wouldn't be a bad f/l at all for a 10", around 1.6deg TFOV with a 31T5 eyepiece.  It would be a very nice planetary scope, coupled with my 102ED for widefield views.  I considered a Discovery 10" f/6 split-tube for quite a while and came very close a couple times to buying one.  Sadly, it looks like I'll never see one as it seems Discovery is no more; or at least they aren't updating their website, nor does OPT carry them anymore which is how I would've ordered for a bit extra "protection".


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#39 Tom Stock

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:48 PM

I'll check out how the ES is and do some more research on the ES! It's surprising to know that it's on a equatorial mount though. I think it would be a good option as well in some partssmile.gif Thank you so much all!

No it's not on an equatorial mount.. someone mentioned that it's in rings so it COULD be put on a german equatorial mount. I highly recommend not doing that.  The awkwardness and bulk of a large reflector on a german equatorial mount is what led to the idea of the dobsonian.  Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE the look of a large reflector on a big hefty german mount and might even like to have one if I was certain I would never have to move it.  I'd probably look at it more than looking thru it though.

 

So the fact that the the ES is in a cradle system isn't really all that useful in my opinion, other than for adjusting balance.

 

For a first telescope I highly recommend with goto or push to for object location.  Nothing makes a scope sit more than someone not being able to find anything with it. You will get tired of looking at the 3 things you can find easily.


Edited by Tom Stock, 28 July 2020 - 01:35 PM.

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#40 stargazer193857

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 07:55 PM

How much does it cost to add push to later? I'm guessing the GSO systems are proprietary?

#41 BrettG

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 08:25 AM

How much does it cost to add push to later? I'm guessing the GSO systems are proprietary?

 

Depends on which system you add.

 

Romer has a PushTo system specifically for GSO's that's about $100 USD.  https://romer-optics...ant=32181703758

 

Another very popular option is a Nexus, Nexus II, or Nexus DSC and encoder kit from Astro Devices https://www.astrodevices.com/ - this option is a little more flexible - the Romer option, you have to use their app.  With any of the Nexus options, you can use something like SkySafari or another app (I think), or the DSC works as it's own unit.  These will range from about $400 USD -> $700/$800 depending on encoders and the like.

 

I have a Nexus II and the 8,192 Step Azimuth encoder kit for the GSO on order currently.  I have SkySafari Pro on all of my devices, so I didn't see a need for the DSC at the moment.

 

You can also install your own encoders, but to me, it's easier to get the kit that is specifically made for your telescope, if it doesn't have encoders already.


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#42 stargazer193857

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 11:42 AM

Depends on which system you add.

Romer has a PushTo system specifically for GSO's that's about $100 USD. https://romer-optics...ant=32181703758

Another very popular option is a Nexus, Nexus II, or Nexus DSC and encoder kit from Astro Devices https://www.astrodevices.com/ - this option is a little more flexible - the Romer option, you have to use their app. With any of the Nexus options, you can use something like SkySafari or another app (I think), or the DSC works as it's own unit. These will range from about $400 USD -> $700/$800 depending on encoders and the like.

I have a Nexus II and the 8,192 Step Azimuth encoder kit for the GSO on order currently. I have SkySafari Pro on all of my devices, so I didn't see a need for the DSC at the moment.

You can also install your own encoders, but to me, it's easier to get the kit that is specifically made for your telescope, if it doesn't have encoders already.


By app, do you mean you have to use your cell phone? Does the Orion push-to require a cell phone?

#43 BrettG

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 11:47 AM

By app, do you mean you have to use your cell phone? Does the Orion push-to require a cell phone?

The Nexus and Nexus II require an app, either on cell phone, tablet, or PC.  The Nexus DSC is a standalone device (self contained) - it does NOT need an external App.

 

The Romer app requires a cell phone (at the very least - I am sure it runs on a tablet, but do not know that for certain).

 

The Orion Intelliscopes are their own self-contained devices (Like the Nexus DSC) - no app needed as far as I know.  I've never used one, but I have read about them.


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#44 kevinclark

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 01:36 PM

Hi folks! I’m in roughly the same boat as the poster, so thought my questions would fit in here. I don’t want to hijack the thread though, so feel free to tell me to shove off. It’s my first post so I’m still figuring etiquette.

I’m also looking at a 10” Dob for my first scope. I’m pretty sold on the 10” ES truss model. I like the portability and storage aspects the truss design gives and it sounds like the quality is pretty decent. I’m entirely lost when it comes to figuring what eyepiece(s) to buy for it though and what other accessories I should definitely get out the gate.

I’m going to be all visual - planets and DSO if I can manage it. I’m in Alameda County, CA so light pollution will be a thing, though I’m pretty far into the hills so it’s not so bad as it could be. I expect I’ll need a shroud and it sounds like general wisdom is to get a telerad ASAP?

#45 Tom Stock

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 01:41 PM

By app, do you mean you have to use your cell phone? Does the Orion push-to require a cell phone?

No it doesn't but you can link your phone or an ipad to it if you want to view a chart and choose objects that way.

 

I've had many many scopes over the past 25 years or so, and actually just recently ordered an Orion X10i push to scope for myself.  I think it will be a nice change from my C8 on a german mount for visual use.


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#46 cuzimthedad

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:21 PM

Hi folks! I’m in roughly the same boat as the poster, so thought my questions would fit in here. I don’t want to hijack the thread though, so feel free to tell me to shove off. It’s my first post so I’m still figuring etiquette.

I’m also looking at a 10” Dob for my first scope. I’m pretty sold on the 10” ES truss model. I like the portability and storage aspects the truss design gives and it sounds like the quality is pretty decent. I’m entirely lost when it comes to figuring what eyepiece(s) to buy for it though and what other accessories I should definitely get out the gate.

I’m going to be all visual - planets and DSO if I can manage it. I’m in Alameda County, CA so light pollution will be a thing, though I’m pretty far into the hills so it’s not so bad as it could be. I expect I’ll need a shroud and it sounds like general wisdom is to get a telerad ASAP?

Welcome to Cloudy Nights Kevin! You have enough questions to start another topic so please feel free to do so. You'll be given enough information to get you started and more!



#47 kevinclark

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:28 PM

Welcome to Cloudy Nights Kevin! You have enough questions to start another topic so please feel free to do so. You'll be given enough information to get you started and more!

Thanks! I'll do that.




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