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ADC Question in Firecapture

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#1 dcaponeii

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 07:19 AM

Good morning,

 

When using the ZWO-ADC and the ADC alignment feature in Firecapture, I'm getting stable circles to work with and they seem to align vertically without any trouble when I position the prisms.  However, the circles end up SLIGHTLY beside each other and not directly on top of each other.  Is this an indication that the ADC is not EXACTLY horizontal?  The bubble level on the device is very helpful but probably not entirely accurate as the bubble is about 50% of the volume of the liquid-filled tube.

 

Thanks ahead of time for the help,

 

Don

Waxahachie, TX



#2 happylimpet

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 08:08 AM

the alignemtn thing isnt 100% reliable as some planets have variable colour from side to side or top to bottom  - like mars with a bright white pole. So dont expect perfect correction to always coincide with the circles overlapping.

 

I just look at the colours of the edge of the overexposed disk while adjusting.


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#3 TorstenEdelmann

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 02:18 PM

the alignemtn thing isnt 100% reliable as some planets have variable colour from side to side or top to bottom  - like mars with a bright white pole. So dont expect perfect correction to always coincide with the circles overlapping.

Hmm... while thinking about I'm not sure if this plays a role at all. The ADC alignment feature uses a simple barycentre algorithm for each color channel. In other words it 'counts' pixels above background signal, e.g. even if the haze in your Mars image looks blue that doesn't mean there is no signal for R and G in the data. At least more than background level. From that perspective it doesn't matter if the signal is just 1% above background or 90% (pole). Sure it's not 100% reliable but my guess is that seeing has most influence here...

Torsten   
 


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#4 dcaponeii

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 02:33 PM

Hmm... while thinking about I'm not sure if this plays a role at all. The ADC alignment feature uses a simple barycentre algorithm for each color channel. In other words it 'counts' pixels above background signal, e.g. even if the haze in your Mars image looks blue that doesn't mean there is no signal for R and G in the data. At least more than background level. From that perspective it doesn't matter if the signal is just 1% above background or 90% (pole). Sure it's not 100% reliable but my guess is that seeing has most influence here...

Torsten   
 

If I'm asking questions that have the developer of Firecapture thinking about things then I'm going to consider that to be a good question in any case.  On a related note, have you found a reason why the cut box wouldn't follow the planet in ver 2.7 beta yet.  I found a thread the other day that I thought said you had a new version to download but when I select the update feature in settings the talk back was that I have the latest version already.  I made another attempt last week but still with the same results.  The cut box is yellow and will not follow the planet.  No problems in ver 2.6 at all.


Edited by dcaponeii, 16 July 2020 - 02:33 PM.


#5 TorstenEdelmann

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 02:40 PM

Can you check in the settings under system->general if the 'let cutout box track planet' checkbox is ticked

Torsten


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#6 Tulloch

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 04:49 PM

I've found the cutout box box in ver 2.7 tracks the planet just fine, as long as you tell the program to do it :)

 

Thanks for the new version Torsten, I'm still playing with the new focus aid btw, nice feature.

 

Andrew


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#7 dcaponeii

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 05:58 PM

Can you check in the settings under system->general if the 'let cutout box track planet' checkbox is ticked

Torsten

Yes the box was checked in settings.  I've got good weather predicted for this evening.  I'll give it another shot.  I really like the differences in v2.7 but I've not been able to get the cut box to track the planet.  It's got to be something on my end if others are not seeing the same issue.



#8 Tulloch

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 06:48 PM

The cut box needs the ROI box to be about 25% larger than the cut box, otherwise it won't track. It needs space around itself to move into, maybe your cut box is too large?

 

Just a thought, Andrew


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#9 RedLionNJ

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 08:06 PM

Good morning,

 

When using the ZWO-ADC and the ADC alignment feature in Firecapture, I'm getting stable circles to work with and they seem to align vertically without any trouble when I position the prisms.  However, the circles end up SLIGHTLY beside each other and not directly on top of each other.  Is this an indication that the ADC is not EXACTLY horizontal?  The bubble level on the device is very helpful but probably not entirely accurate as the bubble is about 50% of the volume of the liquid-filled tube.

 

Thanks ahead of time for the help,

 

Don

Waxahachie, TX

Hi Don,

 

When I get in this situation (and I'm feeling particularly bloody-minded about eking all I can out of my system), I move the planetary disk around on my sensor a bit (full chip preview). There is often a location on the sensor where the disperson is totally nulled-out in both dimensions.  This doesn't always work, but I've had success often enough to suspect there may be something to this.

 

No harm in giving it a try.

 

Grant


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#10 phileefan

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 09:25 PM

The cut box needs the ROI box to be about 25% larger than the cut box, otherwise it won't track. It needs space around itself to move into, maybe your cut box is too large?

 

Just a thought, Andrew

Andrew, what is this cut box you guys are talking about? confused1.gif  This sounds interesting........ 



#11 Tulloch

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 09:30 PM

Hi Phil, it's called "Crop Target" in FC, and you can find it in the image below. You draw a box around the target, and FC will keep it in the center of the frame. It makes stacking in AS!3 much easier also, check it out!
 

Make your Region Of Interest (ROI) about 50% larger than the target, then create the cut box tool to track.

 

Andrew

Attached Thumbnails

  • FireCapture settings.png

Edited by Tulloch, 16 July 2020 - 09:31 PM.

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#12 phileefan

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 09:35 PM

Hi Phil, it's called "Crop Target" in FC, and you can find it in the image below. You draw a box around the target, and FC will keep it in the center of the frame. It makes stacking in AS!3 much easier also, check it out!
 

Make your Region Of Interest (ROI) about 50% larger than the target, then create the cut box tool to track.

 

Andrew

Thanks Andrew, I'll definitely check it out! waytogo.gif  


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#13 DMach

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 05:46 AM

I just look at the colours of the edge of the overexposed disk while adjusting.

I like this approach also: with the ADC alignment tool turned on, ramp up the gain until the planet if completely over-exposed, with only a thin coloured edge to it. Adjust the ADC levels until that coloured edge is even (as opposed to one side being yellow, the other blue).



#14 DMach

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 05:48 AM

It makes stacking in AS!3 much easier also, check it out!

Makes the image measurements in WinJUPOS much easier, too! I often find that no adjustment is needed between captures (assuming you get no rotation).


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#15 dcaponeii

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:41 AM

Andrew, what is this cut box you guys are talking about? confused1.gif  This sounds interesting........ 

Thought of that this morning and tried resizing it but to no effect.  I'm using the same parameters as I use on the ver2.6 software so I'm really at a loss on this one.  Is the cut box yellow now instead of white like in ver 2.6?



#16 KTAZ

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:52 AM

I’m still not quite clear on what the “cut box” offers that is superior to simply cropping your ROI. Can someone please elaborate?

 

Holy cow...2.7 is out? I guess I better grab it so I can check it out.

 

EDIT: Where is the 2.7 Beta version available?


Edited by KTAZ, 17 July 2020 - 10:13 AM.


#17 KiwiRay

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:45 AM

When using the cut box, will the fps be constrained by the size of the cut box, or the ROI? I've tried using a cut box, but since I still have to make manual adjustments to keep the planet within the ROI, it didn't seem to offer any great advantage.  If the cut box could be used with maximum ROI and the fps was only constrained by the size of the cut box, then it would be really useful.  I have a feeling, though, I'm missing something in how to use this tool.


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#18 KTAZ

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:53 AM

When using the cut box, will the fps be constrained by the size of the cut box, or the ROI? I've tried using a cut box, but since I still have to make manual adjustments to keep the planet within the ROI, it didn't seem to offer any great advantage.  If the cut box could be used with maximum ROI and the fps was only constrained by the size of the cut box, then it would be really useful.  I have a feeling, though, I'm missing something in how to use this tool.

I guess I am thinking the same. I usually use maximum view to get the planet centered, then I draw a ROI box with my mouse, accept it, and immediately start tracking to keep it centered in the ROI.


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#19 RedLionNJ

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:07 PM

On a well-tuned system, the maximum frame rate is dictated by the vertical size of the data frame being sent via the USB connection.

 

So all the cut-out does is keep the planet centered and reduce the size of each frame as stored to file.

 

It is still the vertical ROI which determines the maximum possible fps - all that data is still being transferred over USB.


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#20 RedLionNJ

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:08 PM

Hi Phil, it's called "Crop Target" in FC, and you can find it in the image below. You draw a box around the target, and FC will keep it in the center of the frame. It makes stacking in AS!3 much easier also, check it out!
 

Make your Region Of Interest (ROI) about 50% larger than the target, then create the cut box tool to track.

 

Andrew

Andrew - is the screen capture associated with post #11 above TYPICAL for your conditions? Or exceptional?  Because it's easily a factor of ten better than typical for here!

 

Grant



#21 KTAZ

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:13 PM

On a well-tuned system, the maximum frame rate is dictated by the vertical size of the data frame being sent via the USB connection.

 

So all the cut-out does is keep the planet centered and reduce the size of each frame as stored to file.

 

It is still the vertical ROI which determines the maximum possible fps - all that data is still being transferred over USB.

So I think you just confirmed that there is no difference between using a reduced ROI and Auto Guiding within it versus using a cut-out box?



#22 dcaponeii

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:30 PM

So I think you just confirmed that there is no difference between using a reduced ROI and Auto Guiding within it versus using a cut-out box?

Except that FC keeps the planet exactly centered within the crop target while you are working on keeping the planet within the chosen ROI.



#23 KTAZ

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:44 PM

Except that FC keeps the planet exactly centered within the crop target while you are working on keeping the planet within the chosen ROI.

tongue2.gif I appear to be super mentally challenged this morning.

 

When I reduce my ROI and set "Auto Guide" it keeps the object centered in the ROI. I will see the little directional arrows in the corner as they bump the planet now and then to keep it centered.

 

How is the Crop Box different? Is there some sort of reduction in drift movement during auto guiding?



#24 TorstenEdelmann

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 01:21 PM

Andrew - is the screen capture associated with post #11 above TYPICAL for your conditions? Or exceptional?  Because it's easily a factor of ten better than typical for here!

 

Grant

Grant,

Believe it or not but despite my poor location (48N) I very often experience the exact same exceptional conditions. Unfortunately this happens only when using dummycam like Andrew did in post #11. 

Sorry couldn't resist... tongue2.gif

Torsten



#25 dcaponeii

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 01:27 PM

tongue2.gif I appear to be super mentally challenged this morning.

 

When I reduce my ROI and set "Auto Guide" it keeps the object centered in the ROI. I will see the little directional arrows in the corner as they bump the planet now and then to keep it centered.

 

How is the Crop Box different? Is there some sort of reduction in drift movement during auto guiding?

No I've just explained it badly.  My apologies.  Still trying to get it to work on my computer in ver 2.7.  Had to stay with ver 2.6 overnight.  Tried again but cannot get the box to track the planet in ver 2.7.  Set up is the same (at least as near as I can tell) but while ver 2.6 works just fine, ver 2.7 will not track the planet.  The yellow box just stays frozen in the ROI.


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