Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Baader Zeiss Mark V questions

  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 mtminnesota

mtminnesota

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 167
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2019
  • Loc: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted 24 July 2020 - 09:59 AM

I'm just about to order a new Mark V binoviewer, but before I do I need more info.  I've never used a binoviewer and don't know the ins and outs of using them.  I'll be using this one with a Takahashi FOA-60Q and a TSA-120, observing the moon and planets primarily.  I'd like recommendations on which eyepieces are best for that application that allow comfortable eye relief, since I wear glasses.  Of course, if necessary I could just take them off to observe.  I don't know if that would mean I wouldn't be able to focus though.  Yes, I'm really that clueless.  Also, which other accessories (if any) would I need to get with it?  Lastly, is this the best binoviewer I can buy?  Thanks for anything anyone can tell me.


Edited by mtminnesota, 24 July 2020 - 09:59 AM.


#2 Eddgie

Eddgie

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 26,559
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 24 July 2020 - 10:06 AM

In general, any eyepiece you use for monocular viewing should work well for binoviewing as long as the lens housings are sufficiently small to accommodate your IPD.

 

For example the 24mm Panoptic has a cone shaped housing that allows generous clearance at the bridge of the nose, while the far less expensive but still excellent Exlopre Scientific 24mm has a flatter and wider field lens housing shape, making clearance there more difficult.

 

An eyepiece like the 18mm Meade Ultrawide, while 1.25", has a very large diameter housing and that can make getting the IPD necessary for users with smaller IPD difficult.  

 

Some people will have trouble with some 82 degree eyepieces because unlike monovieweing, you can't turn your head slightly to take in the outside of the field. If you cannot take in the entire field of an eyepiece in monoview mode without tilting your head, then you will never be able to take it in using both eyes in the binoviewer.  Now this does not mean they won't work but it means that part of the apparent field might be wasted. 

 

Otherwise, as long as you have the IPD, if you like it for monovision, it should work fine for binoveiwer use. 


  • mtminnesota likes this

#3 Barlowbill

Barlowbill

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 873
  • Joined: 05 Apr 2018
  • Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma

Posted 24 July 2020 - 10:12 AM

I wear glasses but do not view with glasses.  Focus should not be a problem.


  • edl and mtminnesota like this

#4 mtminnesota

mtminnesota

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 167
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2019
  • Loc: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted 24 July 2020 - 10:45 AM

I won't need any other accessories with it then, like a glasspath corrector?  I can just slip it into my Baader T-2 prism diagonal, pop in a pair of eyepieces, and that's all?  I was hoping it would be that simple.  I can't wait to use it!



#5 markb

markb

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 930
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2006
  • Loc: Long Island; in transition to Arizona

Posted 24 July 2020 - 10:51 AM

I assume you've gone over the info on the Baader page, the manual is on the Download tab https://www.baader-p...-binocular.html

 

Their pages don't seem to make the search engines, but Company 7 has a great page at http://www.company7....aaderbinoV.html

 

Glasspath Correctors, absolutely. Not usually needed, just an option, but check the Mark V manual. Newts and some refractors encounter issues.

 

When I got the baby Maxbright, I immediately got the Glasspath Correctors, very reasonably priced and very useful. They solve many back focus problems as well. Usual superb Badder coatings and glass.

 

I would simply ( until the wallet cries 'uncle') pick up the other half of the pair of whatever works for you now. I built pairs of my short Naglers and medium Widescans.

 

Eddgie is spot on on checking diameters of eps. I do not have numbers for usable diameters, but you can get an idea by pulling Baader Zoom MK III and Mk IV dimensions from their site. Not recommending the Zooms given your setup, but they do help see the issues on bino use.

 

They fixed lots on the III but three of the biggest changes were to allow use in APM 'binoculars', really double telescopes. One was a slight back focus mod, the other two were slimmer main bodies and removable lightshields to let the eyepieces get closer, and for room for the poor nose.

 

If looking for ready for bino pairs, it is really tough to beat APMS Ultra Flat Fields. Made for bino use, 65-70 degree afov, usable body designs on binotelescopes. Great reviews and comfortable in use. And affordable. Don at eyepiecesetc will have them. I think APMs PA operation might still be offline, not sure.


Edited by markb, 24 July 2020 - 11:16 AM.

  • Jeff B and mtminnesota like this

#6 markb

markb

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 930
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2006
  • Loc: Long Island; in transition to Arizona

Posted 24 July 2020 - 11:00 AM

The Baader Mark V manual has the backfocus discussion starting p. 9, has an excellent, and specific, bf table on p. 10.

 

Check with your particular scope designs. I took a quick look (I'm not personally familiar with Tak refractors), and then at the Company 7 page,

;you might end up needing a GPC. Perhaps order one just in case?

 

AgenaAstro is the current Baader US distributor, IIRC, and they ship quickly if you figure out you need a GPC before the Mark V arrives.

 

I just looked, they appear to be in stock.


Edited by markb, 24 July 2020 - 11:14 AM.

  • mtminnesota likes this

#7 Jeff B

Jeff B

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,879
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2006

Posted 24 July 2020 - 11:02 AM

A really nice viewer mtminnesota and some great advice and counsel here.

 

Yes for the GPCs and I recommend the 1.25x and 1.7X.

 

And yes for the APM UFF's.  I have the 10, 15, 18 and 24 mm.  They are of a good price for a higher end eyepiece, have very good eye relief, especially when used with the GPC's to get to high magnification and they are sharp.  Oh, and also, they do not have those ROTTEN, STINKING, NO GOOD UNDERCUTS.

 

Regarding your glasses, just try it both ways.

 

Jeff


Edited by Jeff B, 24 July 2020 - 11:03 AM.

  • markb, Kunama and mtminnesota like this

#8 Kunama

Kunama

    Aussie at large

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,637
  • Joined: 22 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Canberra, Australia

Posted 25 July 2020 - 02:47 AM

Whilst your FOA60Q and TSA both have sufficient backfocus to work without the GPCs, I recommend at least the 1.25x on for the MkV  to counter the effects of the prisms on the colour correction.  The FOA60Q has 208mm from the retracted drawtube to the focal point, while the TSA has 227mm.

 

I have used both scopes with various binoviewers (Baader, Zeiss,TV & Denk).  

For the FOA60Q I designed an adapter (M47 > T2) that screws onto the drawtube to allow me to use a Baader HD Quick Connect to shorten the light path even more.  (The adapter is now available from RafCamera)

 

I tried several diagonals and eventually kept only the Baader T2 Maxbright for binoviewer use with the Zeiss binoviewer attached using another HD Quick Connect.

 

As for eyepieces I use Panoptic24s, Pentax XF 8.5s, LOA21 3D, and a bunch of Takahashi LE pairs....


  • mtminnesota likes this

#9 noisejammer

noisejammer

    Fish Slapper

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,810
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2007
  • Loc: The Uncanny Valley

Posted 25 July 2020 - 03:11 AM

I have a set of Mk V's. The nosepiece, T2 Maxbright diagonal, 1.25x corrector & quick release were all bundled with my Mk V's ... I don't know whether this is still done.

 

Beside the glass path correctors (1.25x & 1.7x), you'll need a 2" -T2 nosepiece, a suitable diagonal and (maybe) the T2 quick release.

 

If you're short on back focus, the T2 Baader Zeiss spec (01B) prism will free up an extra 12mm or so. Having tested AP 2", Tak 2", Baader Maxbright 2", Baader Maxbright T2 and a 32 mm Tak prism (from my 5-position turret), I'm convinced this is the one to get.

 

Watch out for the quick release not being properly tightened - there are several reports of people dropping the binoviewer head when it slipped. Also, try to incline the binoviewer in a way that gravity tightens its nosepiece.

 

On eyepieces - most binoviewers struggle with (rude word deleted) undercuts, the Mk V's do not. If they suit your IPD, you can even use Delos or XW pairs with the Mk V (I do). There's no need for more than about 70° field because human binocular vision only covers this amount.

 

Rolando recommends you use 10mm eyepieces or longer. I found no need for this & routinely use 5 XW & 6 Delos with the 1.25x corrector. These deliver an exit pupil of 0.55 & 0.65 mm respectively. Be conscious that correct IPD adjustment becomes critical when the exit pupil is small.


  • mtminnesota likes this

#10 mtminnesota

mtminnesota

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 167
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2019
  • Loc: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted 25 July 2020 - 04:13 PM

Whilst your FOA60Q and TSA both have sufficient backfocus to work without the GPCs, I recommend at least the 1.25x on for the MkV  to counter the effects of the prisms on the colour correction.  The FOA60Q has 208mm from the retracted drawtube to the focal point, while the TSA has 227mm.

 

I have used both scopes with various binoviewers (Baader, Zeiss,TV & Denk).  

For the FOA60Q I designed an adapter (M47 > T2) that screws onto the drawtube to allow me to use a Baader HD Quick Connect to shorten the light path even more.  (The adapter is now available from RafCamera)

 

I tried several diagonals and eventually kept only the Baader T2 Maxbright for binoviewer use with the Zeiss binoviewer attached using another HD Quick Connect.

 

As for eyepieces I use Panoptic24s, Pentax XF 8.5s, LOA21 3D, and a bunch of Takahashi LE pairs....

I ordered a 1.25x GPC, your M47 > T2 adapter, and three pair of Tak LE eyepieces (5, 7.5, 10).  This should get me started off well, from what I've learned.    

 

Thanks for your help Matt.
 


  • Kunama likes this

#11 mtminnesota

mtminnesota

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 167
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2019
  • Loc: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted 25 July 2020 - 04:21 PM

I have a set of Mk V's. The nosepiece, T2 Maxbright diagonal, 1.25x corrector & quick release were all bundled with my Mk V's ... I don't know whether this is still done.

 

Beside the glass path correctors (1.25x & 1.7x), you'll need a 2" -T2 nosepiece, a suitable diagonal and (maybe) the T2 quick release.

 

If you're short on back focus, the T2 Baader Zeiss spec (01B) prism will free up an extra 12mm or so. Having tested AP 2", Tak 2", Baader Maxbright 2", Baader Maxbright T2 and a 32 mm Tak prism (from my 5-position turret), I'm convinced this is the one to get.

 

Watch out for the quick release not being properly tightened - there are several reports of people dropping the binoviewer head when it slipped. Also, try to incline the binoviewer in a way that gravity tightens its nosepiece.

 

On eyepieces - most binoviewers struggle with (rude word deleted) undercuts, the Mk V's do not. If they suit your IPD, you can even use Delos or XW pairs with the Mk V (I do). There's no need for more than about 70° field because human binocular vision only covers this amount.

 

Rolando recommends you use 10mm eyepieces or longer. I found no need for this & routinely use 5 XW & 6 Delos with the 1.25x corrector. These deliver an exit pupil of 0.55 & 0.65 mm respectively. Be conscious that correct IPD adjustment becomes critical when the exit pupil is small.

The Mark V package is pared down now, it comes only with 2 ClickLocks, HD T-2 quick connector and case.  I already have a 1.25" Zeiss T-2 01B prism diagonal.

 

I'll be vigilant about the quick release, and try to incline it.  It would be a terrible shame to drop it.

 

And thank you for your help, Bruce.  I'll keep it all in mind. 



#12 Highburymark

Highburymark

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2019

Posted 26 July 2020 - 08:42 AM

Only one thing I don’t like about the MkV - its weight. It’s a heavy hunk of metal that really requires a strong focuser. I replaced my Tak focuser for a Feathertouch largely because of this issue. Recently I’ve also picked up the new Maxbright II. Significantly lighter and cheaper, optical quality same as MkV - just slightly narrower prisms.
  • markb and mtminnesota like this

#13 markb

markb

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 930
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2006
  • Loc: Long Island; in transition to Arizona

Posted 26 July 2020 - 11:05 AM

A bit off the topic, but it is good to hear a direct comparison between the Mark V and the Maxbright II, particularly since the Mark V quality is well established.

 

Good headsup on the weight, since I'll be moving to a Mark V or Maxbright II after I get more experience with my original Maxbright after the move, my current situation does not lend itself to multiple trips for optics, as well as having generally miserable atmospherics vis a vis planets and other targets in the southern sky


Edited by markb, 26 July 2020 - 11:07 AM.



CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics