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Jupiter, Saturn, capture, How?

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#1 Ettu

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 10:42 AM

I have never captured Jupiter or Saturn with my Canons.

Recommendations? How to?

What's best practice these days, cheapest, easiest?

 

 

The last time I tried, with 5DM2, mirror slap made it impractical

I understand some use Live View capture to overcome this?

How do you, or can you use movie mode? How do you take that apart to get individual photos?



#2 dcollier

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 11:36 AM

I've not done this personally,  but I would think you would need to do the Eyepiece Projection Method to get the image anywhere big enough to do it with a DSLR.

 

           -Dave



#3 DubbelDerp

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 11:58 AM

Use a program like BackyardEOS and capture 5X live view from the center of the sensor. Then you can run the video through autostakkert!3 to select the best frames for stacking. I’ve done this a number of times on the moon, but I’m gearing up to try it with my 8” f/10 SCT with 2x Barlow. I think that gets me in the ballpark of getting a reasonably sized image...
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#4 cdndob

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 02:36 PM

Use a program like BackyardEOS and capture 5X live view from the center of the sensor. Then you can run the video through autostakkert!3 to select the best frames for stacking.

^ This.

 

Might want to check out "Solar System Imaging & Processing" area, lots of good info there.

I just did my first attempt at Jupiter last week with my T2i.

 

What scope / mount are you planning to use?



#5 Ettu

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 09:46 PM

Thanks guys,

I'm using a C11 Edge, at F10 (2800mm FL) to a Canon Ra

Which I calculate to be about 100-120 px for the width of either J or S

I don't know that much about this, (yet) but it seems to me that higher magnification isn't going to increase resolution. The scope is only capable of so much (Dawes limit) But with more subs though should be a way to increase the rez. But what do I know?

Much to learn, and a wk or so before the moon comes up a little later so I can get back to my deep sky projects.

For tonight, I'm going to just see what kind of ISO and shutter speed work the best. If the seeing cooperates. The fastest I can image the traditional way (image, download, image dnld....), the only way I know how to do it at this point, will give me about 20-30 images per minute. And with the Ra, there's no shutter or mirror slap. So, hopefully ....



#6 cdndob

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 10:14 PM

For tonight, I'm going to just see what kind of ISO and shutter speed work the best. If the seeing cooperates. The fastest I can image the traditional way (image, download, image dnld....), the only way I know how to do it at this point, will give me about 20-30 images per minute. And with the Ra, there's no shutter or mirror slap. So, hopefully ....

I'd definitely try taking a movie instead of pics. Lots of "end to end" tutorials on youtube for this and you only need to download a few "free" programs and use some basic settings.


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#7 Ettu

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 10:40 PM

I'd definitely try taking a movie instead of pics. Lots of "end to end" tutorials on youtube for this and you only need to download a few "free" programs and use some basic settings.

Thx, looks like I should have some time to check those out. The seeing is lousy at the moment, and even at the meridian, J & S will only get to 23deg alt, so only on the rarest of occasions does it get much good. But good enough to explore and learn about and test some video basics.


Edited by Ettu, 04 August 2020 - 10:41 PM.


#8 cdndob

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 11:21 PM

Thx, looks like I should have some time to check those out. The seeing is lousy at the moment, and even at the meridian, J & S will only get to 23deg alt, so only on the rarest of occasions does it get much good. But good enough to explore and learn about and test some video basics.

I'm 5 degrees north of you and it's still produces what I'd call "ok" results without any special gear. It was actually very interesting watching the camera while it was recording the first time and how much the "seeing" changed second by second. I now see why the video works so well with so many frames taken.


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#9 BQ Octantis

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 04:35 AM

Thanks guys,

I'm using a C11 Edge, at F10 (2800mm FL) to a Canon Ra

Which I calculate to be about 100-120 px for the width of either J or S

I don't know that much about this, (yet) but it seems to me that higher magnification isn't going to increase resolution. The scope is only capable of so much (Dawes limit) But with more subs though should be a way to increase the rez. But what do I know?

Much to learn, and a wk or so before the moon comes up a little later so I can get back to my deep sky projects.

For tonight, I'm going to just see what kind of ISO and shutter speed work the best. If the seeing cooperates. The fastest I can image the traditional way (image, download, image dnld....), the only way I know how to do it at this point, will give me about 20-30 images per minute. And with the Ra, there's no shutter or mirror slap. So, hopefully ....

Hi Ettu,

 

BackyardEOS supports LiveView capture on the Canon EOS Ra. LiveView capture is vastly superior to single frame capture. At 30 images per minute, you'll get just 90 frames before Jupiter's rotation smudges the image—but you need 1000-2000 images for a stack at a reasonable presentation size. Since the Airy disk defines the resolution limit of an aperture, I like to use pixels per Airy disk (ppAd) as a common image scale for different aperture sizes. I find my optimal presentation size to be 4-5 ppAd, depending on seeing. Like this:

 

post-273658-0-61058500-1596334243.jpg

Jupiter w/GRS 2020-07-30 11:14 UTC

Skywatcher 180 Mak, Fujiyama 12.5mm orthoscopic, shimmed

Canon 600D/T3i 5× Live View capture @ 9 fps

2×1024 stacks, scale = 4.1 ppAd

 

Feature resolution vice detection are two different things. While the resolution limit of an aperture may very well be the Dawes limit, the detection limit of an aperture is the Sparrow limit. And Nyquist is the minimum sampling rate to not lose information—these are 2.0, 2.4, and 2.6 ppAd for Rayleigh, Dawes, and Sparrow, respectively. But for DSLR images of Jupiter, Mars and Venus, I submit there is minimal benefit to skimping on spatial sampling. I regularly sample Jupiter at 8 ppAd—my limit is just keeping the scene (Jupiter plus moons) on the 5× sensor crop. And I do all my processing at 8 ppAd before downsampling. Here's a view of the various scales for reference, along with a comparison of scaling of each to a final output of 4 ppAd (zoom in and compare the Airy disks).

 

(Click for full size.)

ppAd_exemplar.jpg

 

For Saturn, I sample at 4 ppAd, which gives me the same lux on the sensor as Jupiter (so I use practically the same capture settings). But I find I need at least 2000 frames for a good result at 4 ppAd. Like this:

 

post-273658-0-74522200-1591508523.jpg

Saturn, Enceladus, Mimas, Tethys, Dione & Rhea, 2020-06-06 16:24 UTC

Skywatcher Mak 180, Fujiyama 18mm orthoscopic, shimmed

Canon 600D/T3i 5× Live View capture @ 8.2 fps

1×2048 frames, scale = 4.5 ppAd

 

I attach my 600D/T3i to my scope like this:

 

post-273658-0-73884900-1556697456.jpg

 

post-273658-0-96655700-1556698565.jpg

 

Rigid T-thread rings means zero clamp slip in a wind storm—capture conditions I encounter frequently in the outback. And orthoscopic (Abbe) eyepieces mean razor sharp images. But most planetary imagers use high quality barlows.

 

That is all.

 

BQ

 

P.S. My capture settings are 1/160sec at ISO12800, AWB. But LiveView is fixed at 30 fps, so in actuality the camera is shooting at 1/30sec at ISO2400.


Edited by BQ Octantis, 06 August 2020 - 03:44 AM.

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#10 Okcman

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 08:58 AM

BQ OCtantis - did you mean 30 frames per second ? and fantastic captures ! - Also how dark were the skys ?



#11 Ettu

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 11:04 PM

I've downloaded and installed BackyardEOS and am getting myself acquainted with it.

BQ - Wow! your results certainly speak for themselves, about what works. Outstanding!

 

It's been a while since I looked at Jupiter, I was quite surprised how red the Red Spot is again,

Last I looked it was rather brown, and visually not real distinct.



#12 BQ Octantis

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 12:27 AM

I've downloaded and installed BackyardEOS and am getting myself acquainted with it.

BQ - Wow! your results certainly speak for themselves, about what works. Outstanding!

 

It's been a while since I looked at Jupiter, I was quite surprised how red the Red Spot is again,

Last I looked it was rather brown, and visually not real distinct.

 

Thanks! Last year the GRS was quite active. This year it's been quite tame. And Saturn has been rather tame for two years.

 

 

BQ OCtantis - did you mean 30 frames per second ? and fantastic captures ! - Also how dark were the skys ?

Thanks! LiveView does run at 30 frames per second; the recording rate depends on the software. I only get 8-10 frames per second in AstroDSLR; BackyardEOS users have reported 10-20 frames per second. But in my post, 30 frames per minute referred to the OP's effective rate reported in Post #5. Sorry for the confusion.

 

The skies weren't dark at all—the moon was a waxing gibbous quite close to Jupiter on the 30th. But you don't need dark skies to shoot the planets—they're in full sun, after all. It is atmospheric turbulence that affects the quality of planetary images. And these were lucky nights.

 

BQ



#13 BQ Octantis

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 04:24 AM

I've never seen DSLR capture with an 11-in aperture. So I simulated what an equivalent scaling would have looked like for my Jupiter capture had I used an 11-in aperture (with everything on the 1024×680 5× Live View sensor crop for a sense of how each size would fit). Had I captured the same number of pixels across Jupiter, it would have been at 5.2 ppAd. From there, you can see how the other scales would have compared, to include the final image size at 4.0 ppAd:

 

(Click for full size.)

simulated.jpg

 

So you wouldn't be undersampled at all if you magnify to max pixels across Jupiter (Barlow or eyepiece). And your shutter speed would be considerably less…

 

Cheers,

 

BQ


Edited by BQ Octantis, 06 August 2020 - 04:27 AM.



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