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Do you use these processes in Pixinsight?

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#1 Ballyhoo

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 12:35 PM

So many procs, and some cool scripts too, but only one lifetime to learn them all.

 

Some ones that at first sight  are counter intuitive. Well, if any proc is counter intuitive it would have to be noise generator. Who wants to generate noise? Well, I took some time to watch Adam Block's video on it; and not that I understand its use, there does appear to be some circumstances where it might be of use, for example, if you went too far in noise reduction and you end up with that soft cloudy look.  Well, when that happens to me I just back up a few steps or tone down the MLT.

 

But does anyone here turn to noise generator on an even irregular basis?

 

And Image containers: Interstingly I have been using PI for more than a year now and I never used them. It seems to me one of those proccs we could live without but might make things more seamless at times.

 

Another insteresting one I came across is rescale. I do not know that much about it, but I am wondering whether one could use it to combine various masters from differnt optical systems. For example if I imaged one target  LR with my larger refractor, and GB with my smaller one. Perhaps rescale could scale the masters together.

edit, or could rescale be used just to make the geometry of different masters equivalent?

 

oh and another one I am wanting to learn, that I am sure most here know how to use, is defect map. Sadly, the Keller book does not devote any pages to it except in a brief reference. I believe it is a simplified version of CC and no more.

 

edit,

And how about digitial development.? I mean, it sounds cool. but I know nothing about it. 


Edited by Ballyhoo, 08 August 2020 - 12:39 PM.


#2 Astronomia Oaxaca

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 01:03 PM

Yes, I use all of them regularly


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#3 Bretw01

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 01:40 PM

I use noise generator on most images when performing Adam Blocks Star De-Emphasis - https://www.adambloc...cles/star_demph


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#4 Ballyhoo

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 01:46 PM

I use noise generator on most images when performing Adam Blocks Star De-Emphasis - https://www.adambloc...cles/star_demph

I will put this on my list. If  just had unlimited time....



#5 RonaldNC

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 01:58 PM

I'm currently using Nebulosity 4 to process my images and like it "okay".  I keep thinking of purchasing Pixinsight... but you are vocalizing much of the reasons I have not.  The learning curve seems so steep for an "amateur".

 

I guess my question is... is it worth it?  It's not so much about the monetary investment... it's an issue of time investment.  I would love to hear your unvarnished opinion.

 

Thanks,

Ron



#6 scadvice

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 02:00 PM

On another note but related. I've started a little book with the scripts name and what it improves or replaces in my processing. It helps answer the questions like Bally is asking. Sometimes not just a simple "use or replace with this, instead of using all of those" thing so it's also knowing and understanding the processes it replaces is important at times

 

My current script I'm playing with is Auto Color. It's one you have to install.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=pgUbx89xdA8


Edited by scadvice, 08 August 2020 - 02:03 PM.

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#7 kathyastro

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 02:25 PM

There are way more PI processes that I know nothing about than those that I use regularly.  Chances are no one on the planet knows then ALL.  At least not well.  No one expects you to know them all.

 

I don't know how you can work without Rescale.  It's for making the picture bigger or smaller.  My camera produces images that are about 3300x2500 pixels in size.  That is way too big for posting on most forums.  I rescale them down to 1000 pixels on the long size (and usually about 750-ish on the short side) for posting to forums. 

 

[edit] Sorry, I was thinking about Resample.  Rescale is something else.


Edited by kathyastro, 08 August 2020 - 05:23 PM.

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#8 terry59

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 02:31 PM

I'm currently using Nebulosity 4 to process my images and like it "okay".  I keep thinking of purchasing Pixinsight... but you are vocalizing much of the reasons I have not.  The learning curve seems so steep for an "amateur".

 

I guess my question is... is it worth it?  It's not so much about the monetary investment... it's an issue of time investment.  I would love to hear your unvarnished opinion.

 

Thanks,

Ron

I recommend taking PI one process at a time. In the beginning scripts such as batch preprocessing and the new EZ Processing Suite help. I definitely recommend it and Adam Block's instruction series


Edited by terry59, 08 August 2020 - 02:31 PM.

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#9 Stelios

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 02:38 PM

I'm currently using Nebulosity 4 to process my images and like it "okay".  I keep thinking of purchasing Pixinsight... but you are vocalizing much of the reasons I have not.  The learning curve seems so steep for an "amateur".

 

I guess my question is... is it worth it?  It's not so much about the monetary investment... it's an issue of time investment.  I would love to hear your unvarnished opinion.

 

Thanks,

Ron

YES! It's worth it. 

 

The problem with PI is the lack of good instruction and documentation (their documentation is too detailed or missing). That's why the Adam Block videos are so awesome. It's not just the techniques and the explanation of what the parameters actually DO (the Rogelio Bernal Andreo book also is good at the latter). It's watching Adam use PI! I learned so much just by seeing him click around and organize his work. The way he uses previews (he has lessons on them) is just awesome and far beyond what you'd glean by just reading WK's book. 

 

Once you start figuring out how to effectively use PI, the flexibility blows your mind. 

 

And to go back to Ballyhoo's post: I've used noise generator and rescale. I've not used image containers as I rarely want to apply the same process to a lot of images. Defect maps apply more to CCD's than CMOS cameras. 

 

But it's not important to know and use all the 91 PI scripts (there are more not in the latest release) and 105 processes! You don't get a quiz and the one with the most processes wins! You need to know what to use for your images. For LRGB processing you may need to know

(pre-process/stacking stage)

Image Calibration

Image Integration

Cosmetic Correction

Star Alignment

(process stage)

Dynamic Crop

DBE

Deconvolution (includes the Render/PSFImage script *if* wanted)

MLT (denoise)

Screen Transfer Function (STF) (also uses Histogram Transformation (HT))and/or curves for stretching (Arcsinh is also nice to know here)

Channel Combination (CC)

Background Neutralization (BN)

Photometric Color Calibration (PCC)

LRGB combination

LHE for sharpening

Color Saturation

TGV Denoise (final)

Morphological Transformation for star reduction

 

That's a fairly complete processing (and more than what most do) with about 18 processes. 

 

Pixinsight is a bit like learning Kanji. There's more than 50,000 Kanji, but fewer than 2,500 are in daily use, and even scholars will rarely know more than 10,000. Many are simply obsolete. You need books and tutorials to know what's important to learn. 


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#10 jdupton

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 03:08 PM

Kathy,

 

I don't know how you can work without Rescale.  It's for making the picture bigger or smaller.  My camera produces images that are about 3300x2500 pixels in size.  That is way too big for posting on most forums.  I rescale them down to 1000 pixels on the long size (and usually about 750-ish on the short side) for posting to forums. 

   I think you are thinking of Resample rather than Rescale.

 

   I also use Resample all the time to change image pixel dimensions. I rarely use Rescale which takes the intensity range of an image and stretches it to take up the full 0 to 1 normalized intensity range.

 

 

John


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#11 Becomart

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 03:31 PM

My use of Pixinsight evolves as I slowly learn more about the program. I tried the HSV Repair script this week for the first time and learnt that using a masked stretch on a lum channel is a bad idea.



#12 terry59

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 04:03 PM

My use of Pixinsight evolves as I slowly learn more about the program. I tried the HSV Repair script this week for the first time and learnt that using a masked stretch on a lum channel is a bad idea.

Have you looked at this? I added the scripts and am just starting to use them

 

https://www.cloudyni...ocessing-needs/



#13 Alex McConahay

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 04:42 PM

I'm currently using Nebulosity 4 to process my images and like it "okay".  I keep thinking of purchasing Pixinsight... but you are vocalizing much of the reasons I have not.  The learning curve seems so steep for an "amateur".

 

I guess my question is... is it worth it?  It's not so much about the monetary investment... it's an issue of time investment.  I would love to hear your unvarnished opinion.

 

Thanks,

Ron

>>>>>vocalizing much of the reasons I have not.

 

What ballyhoo is saying is that there is a lot more to it than he has taken advantage of. You seem to take that as a reason not to pursue it. But just because something has a lot more than you normally use is no reason not to use what you can use in it. 

 

Imagine a fine cooked meal at a fancy restaurant. Do you have to worry about all the things that could be served there besides what you are eating? Do you need to worry about what else the chef can do besides what he or she is doing for your meal?  Nope. Just get what you want out of it.  

 

Did you get the point that Ballyhoo is working away with PixInsight, and having a grand old time processing images? He has it working fine. It is just that he sees other things that other people might be using, and he cannot figure out their purposes. That is not the same thing as "I cannot get the program to work." 

 

Now, it may be true that PixInsight has a lot of stuff going on. But, you know, you do not have to use it all.

 

There are plenty of things the computer I am typing on can do, and mysterious ways to get the computer to do these things. I don't need to know all of them, or use all of them to have a great time using my computer.

 

Alex



#14 RonaldNC

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:14 PM

>>>>>vocalizing much of the reasons I have not.

 

What ballyhoo is saying is that there is a lot more to it than he has taken advantage of. You seem to take that as a reason not to pursue it. But just because something has a lot more than you normally use is no reason not to use what you can use in it. 

 

Imagine a fine cooked meal at a fancy restaurant. Do you have to worry about all the things that could be served there besides what you are eating? Do you need to worry about what else the chef can do besides what he or she is doing for your meal?  Nope. Just get what you want out of it.  

 

Did you get the point that Ballyhoo is working away with PixInsight, and having a grand old time processing images? He has it working fine. It is just that he sees other things that other people might be using, and he cannot figure out their purposes. That is not the same thing as "I cannot get the program to work." 

 

Now, it may be true that PixInsight has a lot of stuff going on. But, you know, you do not have to use it all.

 

There are plenty of things the computer I am typing on can do, and mysterious ways to get the computer to do these things. I don't need to know all of them, or use all of them to have a great time using my computer.

 

Alex

Oh, I get your point.  My point is that I see a lot of discussions like this about scripts/processes... and the lack of documentation.  I'm good with watching a few videos to learn the basics, but how much do I need to learn to do better that Nebulosity4?  It is very well documented and has a lot of capability I don't use... does Pixinsight improve on this reasonably easy?  In other words, will I be able to jump in fairly quickly and get results similar to Nebulosity... then progress from there?



#15 Becomart

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:16 PM

Have you looked at this? I added the scripts and am just starting to use them

 

https://www.cloudyni...ocessing-needs/

Yes, I've installed them and have used some of them...liked easy decon but not sure about the noise reduction tool. Think I'm at that dangerous stage at the moment where I know my way around Pixinsight enough to be dangerous that I'm now trying out new things (often with disastrous consequences - see my Iris neb I just posted up on Astrobin). I'm trying to find faster ways to do things and have got obsessed with starless images as I can dispense with the more awkward masks but haven't got the recombination right at the moment. How have you found the new scripts?



#16 kathyastro

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:22 PM

Kathy,

 

   I think you are thinking of Resample rather than Rescale.

 

   I also use Resample all the time to change image pixel dimensions. I rarely use Rescale which takes the intensity range of an image and stretches it to take up the full 0 to 1 normalized intensity range.

 

 

John

You are right, I misread it.  I meant Resample, so my comments are irrelevant to the OP.



#17 terry59

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:49 PM

Yes, I've installed them and have used some of them...liked easy decon but not sure about the noise reduction tool. Think I'm at that dangerous stage at the moment where I know my way around Pixinsight enough to be dangerous that I'm now trying out new things (often with disastrous consequences - see my Iris neb I just posted up on Astrobin). I'm trying to find faster ways to do things and have got obsessed with starless images as I can dispense with the more awkward masks but haven't got the recombination right at the moment. How have you found the new scripts?

I'm just getting started but so far I like the results



#18 WadeH237

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:57 PM

Who wants to generate noise?
 
But does anyone here turn to noise generator on an even irregular basis?

I use NoiseGenerator all the time. I don't use it to introduce noise over the entire field. Most of the techniques out there for star repair or removal will leave an unnaturally smooth area around the star (or where it was in the case of removal). NoiseGenerator makes it possible to introduce noise to the smoothed area to better blend in with the surrounding area.
 

And Image containers: Interstingly I have been using PI for more than a year now and I never used them. It seems to me one of those proccs we could live without but might make things more seamless at times.

I don't use ImageContainer often, but occasionally I have an operation that I want to perform on a bunch of images, and that's what it's for. It gets even more powerful when you combine it with ProcessContainer. With those two things in combination, you can do fairly complex actions on a large number of images with just a few clicks.
 

Another insteresting one I came across is rescale. I do not know that much about it, but I am wondering whether one could use it to combine various masters from differnt optical systems. For example if I imaged one target  LR with my larger refractor, and GB with my smaller one. Perhaps rescale could scale the masters together.
edit, or could rescale be used just to make the geometry of different masters equivalent?

Ok, you got me on that one. I've never used Rescale.
 

oh and another one I am wanting to learn, that I am sure most here know how to use, is defect map. Sadly, the Keller book does not devote any pages to it except in a brief reference. I believe it is a simplified version of CC and no more.

No, it is not the same thing as CosmeticCorrection. CosmeticCorrection can statistically find outlier pixels to blend with their neighbors. DefectMap is just a way that you can declare a number of specific pixels that you want to ignore. I would say that it's best application is for column defects. None of the cameras that I've used in the past few years have bad columns, so I rarely use it.
 

And how about digitial development.? I mean, it sounds cool. but I know nothing about it.

DigitalDevelopment is just another automatic stretching algorithm, like MaskedStretch, ArcsinhStretch, etc. It's a pretty old algorithm and was used lots in the days when most people were using software like MaxIm/DL, ImagesPlus, etc. for processing. The newer algorithms work better in my opinion. But I often use HistogramTransformation and CurvesTransformation manually because I like the control.


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#19 Alex McConahay

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 07:03 PM

Oh, I get your point.  My point is that I see a lot of discussions like this about scripts/processes... and the lack of documentation.  I'm good with watching a few videos to learn the basics, but how much do I need to learn to do better that Nebulosity4?  It is very well documented and has a lot of capability I don't use... does Pixinsight improve on this reasonably easy?  In other words, will I be able to jump in fairly quickly and get results similar to Nebulosity... then progress from there?

 You know, if you are happy with what you are producing, and you feel you are getting as much out of the data as you can reasonably get, there is no reason to go hunting elsewhere. 

 

At the time PixInsight was developed it was really a substantial improvement over the other software that was available--and that other software was generally a collection of different programs. Other programs have been developed since then that offer quite a lot--enough to get pretty far along in the processing. 

 

I certainly do not use all that PixINsight has to offer, and I am probably not processing my data as well as it deserves. I could imagine I would be very happy with some of the other programs that have been developed that get you a good image----even without all the weird processes and scripts PixInsight can use to do even better. 

 

Whether PixInsight has anything to offer you is really something you would have to discover for yourself. And, you cannot discover it without bulling your way through some of its geeky stuff. But, really, that geeky stuff is not all that geeky once you have been through it once or twice, and it really is powerful. 

 

 

Alex



#20 Ballyhoo

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 07:34 PM

YES! It's worth it. 

 

<...snip...> 

One issue I have with Adam, if you could call it that, is I think he goes overboard with some things. Like, really, 6 videos on DBE -- totalling about 2 hours in total.  I guess it does not sound like that much but, is that not over-kill, or making mountains out of mole-hills? It is the same for most processes.  I wished he had conceptual videos, like on combining NB masters and NB to LRGB. I mean I know it there, but its underneath a lotta video footage you got to get to.  

One the otherhand, WK is completely the opposite. Where Adam spends 2 hours, warren spends 2 minutes.    I wished there was an in between.

 

Adam is great. But I am not retired and I do not have unlimted time. 



#21 Alex McConahay

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 09:41 PM

>>>>>>I mean I know it there, but its underneath a lotta video footage you got to get to.

 

one problem with videos instead of books!

 

Not taking sides here, because there are a lot of advantages with the videos, too.....but Yeah, if only videos were easily searchable. 

 

Alex


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