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Orion Sirius ED80-EQ-G Computerized GoTo Plus Refractor For Beginner

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#1 Aquawind

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 10:47 PM

Hello everyone, This is my first post here. I am looking at getting the Orion Sirius ED80-EQ-G for astrophotography. I had a reflector before with great success viewing, but DSOs are in my focus. I understand this is a good DSO beginner setup. I understand I need a reducer/flattener along with other accessories. What specific add-ons would you suggest to maximize my usage. Specific items and model#'s that are reasonably/unreasonably priced for the best photo results. It's going to take time to dial it all in, I understand. Thank you very much for your time. 


Edited by Aquawind, 10 August 2020 - 11:11 AM.


#2 ShaulaB

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 11:18 PM

Posting in one of the imaging forums might yield more replies.

 

When I highlighted the title of this post and clicked "open link in new tab," I got this:

 

Free Shipping on Orders Over $75 & Installment Billing on Orders over $350 (Exclusions Apply)
Home

Page Not Found
A galaxy far, far, away
We're Sorry...

The page you requested cannot be found.

 

There is a link in the toolbar above the post text area for adding a link. Maybe that would work better.

An FYI, people viewing these posts on a smartphone only see the first few words of a subject line.


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#3 bobzeq25

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 11:22 PM

I've been doing this for five years, and advising beginners for a good chunk of that.

 

Here's my strongest advice.

 

That's an excellent setup for starting out, for that budget.  Some experienced imagers will have suggestions for tweaks.

 

Keep things simple.  Your two most important accessories will be:

 

A good stacking/processing program.  I recommend Astro Pixel Processor.  There are serious advantages to an astro specific program that both stacks and processes.  As oppose to a common choice, DSS plus a terrestrial editing program.

 

https://www.astropixelprocessor.com/

 

This book.  The best $40 you'll ever spend on DSO AP.

 

https://www.amazon.c.../dp/0999470906/

 

Less important.  You'll want the reducer flattener designed for that specific lens.  It comes from another company that uses the same lens.

 

https://www.skywatch...-for-evostar-80


Edited by bobzeq25, 09 August 2020 - 11:23 PM.

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#4 ris242

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 11:41 PM

https://www.telescop...160/p/24281.uts


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#5 Aquawind

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 11:01 AM

Ooops.. I did not mean to post the full link in the Title.. Newbie here pretty obvious. That is the working link that Mariner 2 posted. Thank you.

I didn't see how I could edit the title only the message. Thanks for the details ShaulaB. I hate reposting stuff out of respect for the board but, I may do so. I got the moderators to move and edit the title! 

bobseq25 Thank you as well. This is the kind of stuff I need to know. Out of the box is always needing some tweaking and add-ons. 

 

This is what comes in the box.

Orioin Sirius 80 ED EQ-G Refractor w/GoTo Controller optical tube assembly
25mm Orion Sirius Plossl telescope eyepiece (1.25")
Prism Star Diagonal (1.25")
2" - 1.25" telescope eyepiece adapter
Tripod
Equatorial GoTo mount
Computerized hand controller
8x40 finder scope
Tube Rings
Tube ring mounting plate
11 lb counterweight
Tripod accessory tray
Dust cap
12V DC Power cable
GoTo hand controller cable for Sirius EQ-G
GoTo hand controller cable for Atlas EQ-G
GoTo hand controller bracket
Wire clip
Starry Night special edition software digital download insert


Edited by Aquawind, 10 August 2020 - 11:42 AM.


#6 Aquawind

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 12:02 PM

Would this AutoGuider be ok? 

 

Would this Field Flattener be ok? It's cheaper than the one bobseq25 posted. 

 

I am concerned about buying incompatible or limiting stuff, but also don't want to go too cheap. 

 

I am thinking I want to go with a 2" eyepiece. Any reason not to do so other than money? If not I will probably want 2 different eyepieces as well. 



#7 terry59

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 12:10 PM

Would this AutoGuider be ok? 

 

Would this Field Flattener be ok? It's cheaper than the one bobseq25 posted. 

 

I am concerned about buying incompatible or limiting stuff, but also don't want to go too cheap. 

 

I am thinking I want to go with a 2" eyepiece. Any reason not to do so other than money? If not I will probably want 2 different eyepieces as well. 

The autoguider is fine. I've used that for years but there are more sensitive guide cameras now

 

I used the ED80 and that reducer....it worked just ok with APS-C size sensors. The best field flattener for the scope is the matched 0.85x

 

https://www.bhphotov...attner_for.html


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#8 Stelios

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 12:22 PM

Would this AutoGuider be ok? 

 

Would this Field Flattener be ok? It's cheaper than the one bobseq25 posted. 

 

I am concerned about buying incompatible or limiting stuff, but also don't want to go too cheap. 

 

I am thinking I want to go with a 2" eyepiece. Any reason not to do so other than money? If not I will probably want 2 different eyepieces as well. 

You can get a better autoguider by just combining this (same guidescope!) and this (better camera).

 

The mount/scope combo is a great beginner choice. 

 

The Flattener you show may be OK. I've used (still do) this flattener successfully with the ED80. 

 

You will only need eyepieces if you plan to do visual astronomy. If you get a 2" EP, you will also need a 2" Diagonal. As the provided 25mm EP gives you a low 24x power, you will want higher power EP's (I would get a 8mm for 75x and 4mm for 150x--or you may just want the 8mm and a 2x Barlow). There's little benefit in getting those in 2" format.


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#9 Aquawind

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 01:09 PM

"it worked just ok with APS-C size sensors. The best field flattener for the scope is the matched 0.85x"  

 

Thanks terry59 now I get more reading about APS-C sensors. So much to learn. 

 

"You will only need eyepieces if you plan to do visual astronomy. If you get a 2" EP, you will also need a 2" Diagonal. As the provided 25mm EP gives you a low 24x power, you will want higher power EP's (I would get a 8mm for 75x and 4mm for 150x--or you may just want the 8mm and a 2x Barlow). There's little benefit in getting those in 2" format."

 

Well said.. skip the 2" for now and get better 1.25 options. And the AutoGuider option is good stuff! I like the price of that flattener. Thank you Stelios! 

 

Why is it so often nothing is in stock and you have to wait? Is this a made to order industry? 


Edited by Aquawind, 10 August 2020 - 01:30 PM.


#10 Huangdi

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 01:37 PM

The autoguider is fine. I've used that for years but there are more sensitive guide cameras now

 

I used the ED80 and that reducer....it worked just ok with APS-C size sensors. The best field flattener for the scope is the matched 0.85x

 

https://www.bhphotov...attner_for.html

+1 for the matched flattener. I have the same scope and went with a different flattener to get 0.8x reduction and I don't have pretty corner stars. 


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#11 bobzeq25

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 01:43 PM

I _strongly_ recommend you get the flattener designed for that specific lens (the Skywatcher).  This is a _really_ bad place to save a few bucks, you run the risk of issues with a generic version (optical design is tricky), and, trust me, you'll have enough issues.  <smile>  Spend the money, it shortly will be trivial, compared to everything else.  <smile>.

 

Stelios is correct about building an autoguider with the modern ASI120 camera (which I've used) instead of the ancient SSAG.  It's cheaper, also.

 

It's important to mount the autoguider securely, not in a finder shoe.  Differential flexure between the scopes is another nasty problem, easy to get, hard to diagnose.  Your guiding looks fine because the guidescope is tracking well, but your stars are bad, because the main scope isn't.  Tiny flexure is a problem that cannot be detected with your hand.  Another bad place to save a few bucks.  Here's how it's done.  Two point mounting to triangulate the load.

 

It's unintuitive how sensitive everything is.

 

https://www.cloudyni...ardrails/page-4

 

Stuff is in short supply now because most everything is coming from China.


Edited by bobzeq25, 10 August 2020 - 01:45 PM.

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#12 Stelios

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 01:50 PM

"it worked just ok with APS-C size sensors. The best field flattener for the scope is the matched 0.85x"  

 

Thanks terry59 now I get more reading about APS-C sensors. So much to learn. 

 

"You will only need eyepieces if you plan to do visual astronomy. If you get a 2" EP, you will also need a 2" Diagonal. As the provided 25mm EP gives you a low 24x power, you will want higher power EP's (I would get a 8mm for 75x and 4mm for 150x--or you may just want the 8mm and a 2x Barlow). There's little benefit in getting those in 2" format."

 

Well said.. skip the 2" for now and get better 1.25 options. And the AutoGuider option is good stuff! I like the price of that flattener. Thank you Stelios! 

 

Why is it so often nothing is in stock and you have to wait? Is this a made to order industry? 

Note that some are *flatteners* and some are *reducers* (reducers are flatteners as well).

 

A reducer has advantages in that it reduces (speeds up) the F/ratio, increases the FOV (field of view) and reduces the time required to get same amount of signal by the square of the reduction. So an .85 reducer will make the required time for the same signal 0.85*0.85 = 72% of what would be otherwise required. 

But a reducer also has disadvantages. It increases the image scale and thus makes the actual image a bit smaller. And reducers are much harder to make and fit a scope than flatteners. This is partly why the 0.85X reducer proposed by Bob and Terry is more expensive. The flattener I suggested will be portable between different scopes with F/5 to F/8 ratios, but the reducer may not be. 

 

I generally use reducers when shooting larger objects, and flatteners (without the reduction) for medium-to-smaller objects. 

 

There is a backlog of many items now because there's a high demand for astro-equipment and because COVID-19 has forced restrictions on how companies operate. 


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#13 bobzeq25

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 03:18 PM

Note that some are *flatteners* and some are *reducers* (reducers are flatteners as well).

 

A reducer has advantages in that it reduces (speeds up) the F/ratio, increases the FOV (field of view) and reduces the time required to get same amount of signal by the square of the reduction. So an .85 reducer will make the required time for the same signal 0.85*0.85 = 72% of what would be otherwise required. 

But a reducer also has disadvantages. It increases the image scale and thus makes the actual image a bit smaller. And reducers are much harder to make and fit a scope than flatteners. This is partly why the 0.85X reducer proposed by Bob and Terry is more expensive. The flattener I suggested will be portable between different scopes with F/5 to F/8 ratios, but the reducer may not be. 

 

I generally use reducers when shooting larger objects, and flatteners (without the reduction) for medium-to-smaller objects. 

 

There is a backlog of many items now because there's a high demand for astro-equipment and because COVID-19 has forced restrictions on how companies operate. 

Fair enough, but...

 

With a native F7.5, he'll want the (modest) reduction.

 

For a beginner, inexperienced at diagnosing problems, this is not a risk worth taking to save a few bucks, when there's a piece designed by experts to match that specific lens.


Edited by bobzeq25, 10 August 2020 - 03:23 PM.

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#14 Aquawind

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 05:50 PM

I so much appreciate everyone's input! Ok I am up around $2100 and I have yet to get a camera. 

 

Orion Sirius ED80 EQ-G Computerized GoTo Refractor Telescope - 24281
$1,649.99

Sky-Watcher 0.85X Reducer/Corrector for Pro 80ED Telescope - S20200
$275.00

Orion Mini 50 mm Guide Scope - 08891
$79.99

ZWO ASI120MM Mini Monochrome Astronomy Camera - ASI120MINI

$149.00

 

I am not sure what would be a good fit for this budget. I am sure the $999 cooled unit would be good but, how about these? 

 

Color

 

Monochrome

 

Again I appreciate your time and any input! 



#15 bobzeq25

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 06:33 PM

I so much appreciate everyone's input! Ok I am up around $2100 and I have yet to get a camera. 

 

Orion Sirius ED80 EQ-G Computerized GoTo Refractor Telescope - 24281
$1,649.99

Sky-Watcher 0.85X Reducer/Corrector for Pro 80ED Telescope - S20200
$275.00

Orion Mini 50 mm Guide Scope - 08891
$79.99

ZWO ASI120MM Mini Monochrome Astronomy Camera - ASI120MINI

$149.00

 

I am not sure what would be a good fit for this budget. I am sure the $999 cooled unit would be good but, how about these? 

 

Color

 

Monochrome

 

Again I appreciate your time and any input! 

If you're not going to get a cooled camera, a Nikon D5300/5500/5600 is much better than the very small chip CMOS cameras you listed.  About the same money, similar sensitivity, much larger field of view.  Low thermal noise for a DSLR, I have a 5500.

 

Cooled mono plus filters is very expensive (its only drawback).  At your budget, this would be excellent.

 

https://astronomy-im...533mc-pro-color

 

Cooling does two things for you.  It inherently lowers thermal noise.  It makes correcting the majority of the residual noise with "darks" work really well.  The cooling lets you precisely match the temperature of the lights with the darks.  With any uncooled camera, that's a struggle.  It's a major advantage, not a tweak.

 

I no longer use the DSLR except with camera lenses.  For the scopes, I want a decent field of view and cooling.


Edited by bobzeq25, 10 August 2020 - 06:43 PM.


#16 Aquawind

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 07:00 PM

bobzeq25 

 

Dang and here I thought the mount was the big expense..lol So I guess it's $3000 for a good beginner setup. The color camera you linked does not need color filters? I thought monochrome staking with filters was the way to go versus color cameras. The monochrome link that includes a filter kit will give me distorted or just mediocre pics even with stacking? 

 

How about this camera?


Edited by Aquawind, 10 August 2020 - 07:05 PM.


#17 Huangdi

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 07:24 PM

bobzeq25

Dang and here I thought the mount was the big expense..lol So I guess it's $3000 for a good beginner setup. The color camera you linked does not need color filters? I thought monochrome staking with filters was the way to go versus color cameras. The monochrome link that includes a filter kit will give me distorted or just mediocre pics even with stacking?

How about this camera?


If I may give you a perhaps controversial piece of advice. Don't just blindly follow it. The best way to make sure the problem is the gear and not you is to check out images taken by others with the same gear. Astrobin is a great website to do that as most people list their equipment used on there.
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#18 Aquawind

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 09:40 PM

If I may give you a perhaps controversial piece of advice. Don't just blindly follow it. The best way to make sure the problem is the gear and not you is to check out images taken by others with the same gear. Astrobin is a great website to do that as most people list their equipment used on there.

Thanks. That is a great website. I am sure I will be the problem at first. 



#19 bobzeq25

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 12:28 AM

bobzeq25 

 

Dang and here I thought the mount was the big expense..lol So I guess it's $3000 for a good beginner setup. The color camera you linked does not need color filters? I thought monochrome staking with filters was the way to go versus color cameras. The monochrome link that includes a filter kit will give me distorted or just mediocre pics even with stacking? 

 

How about this camera?

Mono plus filters is the best way to go (especially in light pollution), but _really_ expensive.  You still want a cooled camera (more important than mono).  So the lowest price I've ever seen is $1480.

 

https://astronomy-im...00mm-c-mini-kit

 

Mostly beginners use one shot color cameras, and they are capable of fine images.  I have both types, use them both.

 

The difference between the 533 and the 183 is pixel size.  The 183 (I own both versions) has tiny 2.4 micron pixels.  They have reduced signal to noise ratio, so you need more total imaging time.  It's a touchy camera that's unforgiving of typical beginner errors.

 

The 533 has 3.76 micron pixels.  Better signal to noise ratio, easier to use.  It also matches your scope better.

 

The difference is significant.  I think you'd be happier with a 533.

 

The color cameras have an internal Bayer matrix color filter, so you need no additional filters.  It's the same system used on DSLRs.

 

One thing makes astrobin images less useful for evaluating equipment.  The experience of the imager is very important.  An experienced imager can use equipment that drives beginners crazy.

 

That's also a problem with Cloudy Nights recommendations.  Experienced imagers frequently recommend equipment they would personally like to have, and are reluctant to recommend anything they personally wouldn't use, even though it might be the best choice for a beginner.

 

My recommendations are aimed at the specific needs of beginners.  Note that I'm steering you away from the 183 which I own.  I use them with a C8 RASA 400mm, F2.  The short and very fast scope (and my experience) makes the most of the tiny pixels.

 

Matched flattener.  533 (or a Nikon D5300/5500/5600).  Everything I'm recommending is intended to make this as easy as possible for you.

 

No one has ever quit DSO AP because they found it too easy, not enough of a challenge.  <smile>


Edited by bobzeq25, 11 August 2020 - 12:44 AM.

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#20 Aquawind

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 05:42 AM

Mono plus filters is the best way to go (especially in light pollution), but _really_ expensive.  You still want a cooled camera (more important than mono).  So the lowest price I've ever seen is $1480.

 

https://astronomy-im...00mm-c-mini-kit

 

Mostly beginners use one shot color cameras, and they are capable of fine images.  I have both types, use them both.

 

The difference between the 533 and the 183 is pixel size.  The 183 (I own both versions) has tiny 2.4 micron pixels.  They have reduced signal to noise ratio, so you need more total imaging time.  It's a touchy camera that's unforgiving of typical beginner errors.

 

The 533 has 3.76 micron pixels.  Better signal to noise ratio, easier to use.  It also matches your scope better.

 

The difference is significant.  I think you'd be happier with a 533.

 

The color cameras have an internal Bayer matrix color filter, so you need no additional filters.  It's the same system used on DSLRs.

 

One thing makes astrobin images less useful for evaluating equipment.  The experience of the imager is very important.  An experienced imager can use equipment that drives beginners crazy.

 

That's also a problem with Cloudy Nights recommendations.  Experienced imagers frequently recommend equipment they would personally like to have, and are reluctant to recommend anything they personally wouldn't use, even though it might be the best choice for a beginner.

 

My recommendations are aimed at the specific needs of beginners.  Note that I'm steering you away from the 183 which I own.  I use them with a C8 RASA 400mm, F2.  The short and very fast scope (and my experience) makes the most of the tiny pixels.

 

Matched flattener.  533 (or a Nikon D5300/5500/5600).  Everything I'm recommending is intended to make this as easy as possible for you.

 

No one has ever quit DSO AP because they found it too easy, not enough of a challenge.  <smile>

I am sure the learning curve to get my gear dialed in is going to take a lot of time and frustration no matter what gear I choose but, my time is not cheap either so if a few hundred dollars can shorten that curve and save my nerves I am all for it. Again I appreciate your time! Now it looks like it will be a matter of patience for all of the gear to arrive. 



#21 Aquawind

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 06:13 AM

I only get a DC adapter for the mount. I need to power the mount and camera. I plan on doing most if not all of my imaging from home so I can use a 110V extension chord and power strip. It says the mount can run on a 12Volt battery. Does this mean I can use my new deep cycle marine battery in the field and if so how much time would it give me on a full charge? 


Edited by Aquawind, 11 August 2020 - 06:26 AM.


#22 terry59

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 06:33 AM

I only get a DC adapter for the mount. I need to power the mount and camera. I plan on doing most if not all of my imaging from home so I can use a 110V extension chord and power strip. It says the mount can run on a 12Volt battery. Does this mean I can use my new deep cycle marine battery in the field and if so how much time would it give me on a full charge? 

You need the AC connector for the Sirius or you can use the DC adapter and a converter like the one below. I use my plug for the 383L+ when I'm using it. I also have my dew buster configured with pole connectors and it always runs through mine

 

Yes a marine battery is good for dark skies. Buy a kill-a-watt meter and spend a session measuring the draw

 

 

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Edited by terry59, 11 August 2020 - 06:38 AM.

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#23 Aquawind

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 09:14 AM

Thank you Terry59!

 

Well I hit the buy button! I hope I get it all this year! lol

 

Thanks to everyone for helping me define my decisions! 


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#24 Complexmystery

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 04:55 PM

Another huge thing is a dew heater depending upon where you live. In Louisiana, I can kiss my nights goodbye without having one. Thousands of dollars in gear yet it does me no good to have a fogged up mirror/lens. 
 

-Josh


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#25 Aquawind

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 05:53 PM

Another huge thing is a dew heater depending upon where you live. In Louisiana, I can kiss my nights goodbye without having one. Thousands of dollars in gear yet it does me no good to have a fogged up mirror/lens. 
 

-Josh

Thanks Josh! I hear ya.. I am in North Carolina and expect that could be an issue as well. I will have to look into getting one. I assume this is only a problem in summer weather? That's right everyone I am still looking for add-on suggestions. I am told that everything but, the mount and scope should be here in a few weeks. Lake September for the mount n scope. I reckon so. 




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