Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Ed Ting's Orion 120 Review

  • Please log in to reply
243 replies to this topic

#26 peleuba

peleuba

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,641
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 27 August 2020 - 07:20 PM

Of course it is.  

 

No.  Its really not.   Its a product demonstration by showing the results one can get - not a review.  There is a distinct difference.  A product demonstration is certainly part of a good review but by itself its just that, a demonstration.

 

Anyway, as I previously said, this takes nothing away from what it is, but don't confuse it for something its not.   

 

I have a high bar when it comes to product reviews as should everyone/anyone who may rely on such a review to drive a purchase decision.


Edited by peleuba, 27 August 2020 - 07:31 PM.

  • Jeff B and aeajr like this

#27 sw196060

sw196060

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 384
  • Joined: 16 Apr 2020

Posted 27 August 2020 - 07:30 PM

Semantics
  • zjc26138, daquad, Heywood and 1 other like this

#28 bandazar

bandazar

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 442
  • Joined: 19 Oct 2005

Posted 27 August 2020 - 07:42 PM

I had one for a brief period of time.  I liked the skywatcher 150mm f/5 version a little bit better even though it requires a bigger mount.

Now if they could fit the 120ed into a 120 f/5 tube by using a focal reducer, that would be perfect.  Or even a 150ed in an f/5 by using a focal reducer.


  • clusterbuster likes this

#29 Jeff B

Jeff B

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,239
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2006

Posted 27 August 2020 - 08:09 PM

That's not exactly what I meant, but I was unclear. What I said sounded more negative than it was intended.

 

I have a ST120 and I like it a lot. It is a very inexpensive telescope for what it is, but it doesn't do everything well. My point was that, instead of trying to go up to a premium apo to try to cover for those weaknesses (and if you try to get that apo in F/5, it will be a lot of money), you can just get something else specifically to handle them, because the ST120 is so cheap it leaves you loads of money to buy a second scope. The ST120 is cheaper than the majority of eyepieces I use in it, and the diagonal I use in it.

Ah, ok and sorry.  My bad.  I am overly sensitive at times.  My apologies.

 

Jeff



#30 RLK1

RLK1

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 619
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2020

Posted 27 August 2020 - 08:56 PM

I see OPT sells the same scope for $229.99, drop shipped from Orion or the manufacturer.



#31 peleuba

peleuba

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,641
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 28 August 2020 - 07:52 AM

Semantics

 

Uh - huh.   Product demo does not equal a product review.  To think otherwise means you don't understand the point of either.


Edited by peleuba, 28 August 2020 - 07:55 AM.

  • Bean614 likes this

#32 PatrickVt

PatrickVt

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 561
  • Joined: 20 Apr 2018
  • Loc: Vermont, US

Posted 28 August 2020 - 09:04 AM

That was a fine review.  I wish he had more video reviews of telescopes.  His reviews are the type I am looking for when thinking about a particular telescope.  I look forward to more video reviews from him.

 

Patrick


  • zjc26138, turtle86, daquad and 2 others like this

#33 zjc26138

zjc26138

    Loved By All

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,427
  • Joined: 24 Feb 2005
  • Loc: Steubenville, Ohio

Posted 28 August 2020 - 12:10 PM

I enjoyed his review as well. Plus he has a great channel!


  • beanerds likes this

#34 Scott99

Scott99

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,329
  • Joined: 10 May 2007
  • Loc: New England

Posted 28 August 2020 - 12:20 PM

my favorite reviews were the democratic ones where he asked 4-5 club members to "vote" on the scope they preferred and to give the reasons


  • turtle86 and Tyson M like this

#35 RLK1

RLK1

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 619
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2020

Posted 28 August 2020 - 12:23 PM

With regards to more "in-depth" reviews that may reveal a strehl ratio or some other value, you're still only seeing a result of a sample of one. That's only one data point and may not be generalized to an entire series.

I found Ed Ting's review on this scope to be highly practical to a potential buyer/user and therefore more helpful than a quantitative assessment of a widefield scope...


  • turtle86, daquad, Bomber Bob and 2 others like this

#36 turtle86

turtle86

    Mr. Coffee

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,698
  • Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posted 28 August 2020 - 04:46 PM

With regards to more "in-depth" reviews that may reveal a strehl ratio or some other value, you're still only seeing a result of a sample of one. That's only one data point and may not be generalized to an entire series.

I found Ed Ting's review on this scope to be highly practical to a potential buyer/user and therefore more helpful than a quantitative assessment of a widefield scope...

 

I agree.  Ed’s review was both practical and critical, and went well beyond a mere product demo IMO, as it explained in some detail how it performs in comparison to a high end scope, both visually and photographically. His review gave more useful info than one could hope for for a $200 scope.  I’ve always greatly enjoyed Ed’s reviews over the years, and sure hope he’ll keep them coming.  


Edited by turtle86, 28 August 2020 - 04:46 PM.

  • Nate B., daquad, BFaucett and 2 others like this

#37 Jetfuel

Jetfuel

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 50
  • Joined: 17 Feb 2013
  • Loc: Edmonton, Alberta

Posted 28 August 2020 - 09:01 PM

I was out with my ST120 last night.  Looking over houses, Jupiter was 14° a over the horizon.  I noticed that there was a dark spot at about 8 o’clock on the surface.  I checked SkySafari and Callisto was transiting.  I’d say the scope held up just fine. Now mine has some mods but I think it is a great grab’n’go, even a starter scope.


  • turtle86 and mwedel like this

#38 George Methvin

George Methvin

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,039
  • Joined: 30 Jan 2006
  • Loc: Central Texas

Posted 29 August 2020 - 09:27 AM

Same here I also have done some mods on my 120mm but the first thing I did was to make sure it was collimated and after checking I found it was a little off so a few mins later and a little adjustment and the collimate was spot on maybe not a big deal but it did seem to help when viewing at higher power and it seem to lessens the false color just a bit. On good night of steady seeing good detail are to be seen on both Jupiter and  Saturn now the views may not be on par with what you are able to seen through a $2000 dollar 120mm ed scope but still not to bad for a $249 dollar scope, if I had any family member that were into this hobby that's what they would be getting under there X-mas tree this year lol.


Edited by George Methvin, 29 August 2020 - 09:34 AM.

  • BFaucett likes this

#39 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,421
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 29 August 2020 - 10:53 AM

I’ve had two (none now). They were always fun, super portable as a g&g, and the most bang for your refractor buck on the planet. There’s a world of practical difference between an ST120 and it’s little brother the ST80 or it’s big brother the ST150. The ST120 is the Goldilocks scope of the three. It’s definitely not a planet scope but I found the views of Jupiter and Saturn quite serviceable up to 150X or so. It’s a refractor why? Refractor why not, story. I could almost see myself getting another one. They’re great car-travel scopes, for just knocking around the skies and looking at this and that. The Milky Way and open clusters are wonderful, most other DSO’s enjoyable, and everything else is nice at a casual glance. With an ST120, a 2” diagonal and box of 2” eyepieces and a decent alt-az or eq-mount and you can be one happy camper- Hours of fun on a clear night in the country. The only reason I sold mine was that I had too many scopes. 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 8CB09E9B-69AB-4FF2-ADDF-F32DC9534F90.jpeg

  • tony_spina, Jim7728, turtle86 and 12 others like this

#40 George Methvin

George Methvin

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,039
  • Joined: 30 Jan 2006
  • Loc: Central Texas

Posted 29 August 2020 - 11:07 AM

Terra you are so right just a fun scope to use I have read many post about folks that have seller regret after selling there 120 st only to buy another one I plan to keep mine. For just easy causal enjoyable no fuss viewing this scope is hard to beat when the grandkids come over this is the scope they enjoy looking through there nothing like a low power wide field views of the milky way through a nice wide field 38mm or 32mm 70 deg 2" inch eyepiece.


Edited by George Methvin, 29 August 2020 - 11:11 AM.

  • Starman81 and Terra Nova like this

#41 Jeff B

Jeff B

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,239
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2006

Posted 29 August 2020 - 11:24 AM

I’ve had two (none now). They were always fun, super portable as a g&g, and the most bang for your refractor buck on the planet. There’s a world of practical difference between an ST120 and it’s little brother the ST80 or it’s big brother the ST150. The ST120 is the Goldilocks scope of the three. It’s definitely not a planet scope but I found the views of Jupiter and Saturn quite serviceable up to 150X or so. It’s a refractor why? Refractor why not, story. I could almost see myself getting another one. They’re great car-travel scopes, for just knocking around the skies and looking at this and that. The Milky Way and open clusters are wonderful, most other DSO’s enjoyable, and everything else is nice at a casual glance. With an ST120, a 2” diagonal and box of 2” eyepieces and a decent alt-az or eq-mount and you can be one happy camper- Hours of fun on a clear night in the country. The only reason I sold mine was that I had too many scopes. 

Hey Terra, that's the Stonelick parking lot!  

 

I recognize the tree line.....and the red neck burn out marks on the pavement.

 

Jeff


  • Terra Nova likes this

#42 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,421
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 29 August 2020 - 12:24 PM

Jeff, it most definitely is! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif



#43 ismosi

ismosi

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 994
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2014
  • Loc: New London, Pennsylvania, USA

Posted 29 August 2020 - 01:23 PM

If we ever get back to normal it seems to me that this 'scope could be a great choice for outreach, especially if one is too skittish about having the general public near a 'premium' telescope. I know I am ;)



#44 peleuba

peleuba

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,641
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 29 August 2020 - 03:17 PM

With regards to more "in-depth" reviews that may reveal a strehl ratio or some other value, you're still only seeing a result of a sample of one. That's only one data point and may not be generalized to an entire series.

I found Ed Ting's review on this scope to be highly practical to a potential buyer/user and therefore more helpful than a quantitative assessment of a widefield scope...

 

 

My point has been missed - entirely - by some readers.   

 

What you describe above is a product demonstration.  And, they are - by definition - quite practical and extremely useful in that it shows what to expect by demonstrating the product in real world usage.  Technical details are not really part of these product demonstrations.  However they are quite complimentary to a more in-depth review that delves into the physical attributes, design and some optical tests. 

 

In-other-words a product demo is not a review, but can (should?) be a component of one.

 

I would not make a purchase decision based on this demo.  I would need to see more.

 

If anyone is curious about what equipment reviews should really be like, check out the Japanese publication Temmon Guide.  Many of  the product reviews found in this magazine are deep and take no prisoners.  Which is really the way it ought to be.


Edited by peleuba, 29 August 2020 - 03:19 PM.

  • Jeff B and Paul Sweeney like this

#45 zjc26138

zjc26138

    Loved By All

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,427
  • Joined: 24 Feb 2005
  • Loc: Steubenville, Ohio

Posted 29 August 2020 - 03:31 PM

It's obvious to most on this post that it is indeed a review of the 120mm. Maybe not super in depth, but a review none the less.

 

At any rate this review will help some determine if they want to buy said scope or not.


  • Jim7728, turtle86, Terra Nova and 3 others like this

#46 RLK1

RLK1

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 619
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2020

Posted 29 August 2020 - 03:46 PM

My point has been missed - entirely - by some readers.   

 

What you describe above is a product demonstration.  And, they are - by definition - quite practical and extremely useful in that it shows what to expect by demonstrating the product in real world usage.  Technical details are not really part of these product demonstrations.  However they are quite complimentary to a more in-depth review that delves into the physical attributes, design and some optical tests. 

 

In-other-words a product demo is not a review, but can (should?) be a component of one.

 

I would not make a purchase decision based on this demo.  I would need to see more.

 

If anyone is curious about what equipment reviews should really be like, check out the Japanese publication Temmon Guide.  Many of  the product reviews found in this magazine are deep and take no prisoners.  Which is really the way it ought to be.

Your point about "a more in-depth review that delves into the physical attributes, design and some optical tests" sounds impressive but when you consider the physical attributes such as the weight of the optical tube in question, with and without accessories, the esoteric size of rings to support it,  and the weight necessary to support the unit on a mount seem to reasonably covered in the review. The design is a known factor, ie how much more does one need to know about the design of a short focus F5 rich field refractor? Do you really need to know the type of glass in the objective?How many baffles? The length of a dew cap? The amount of camera weight its standard focuser can support?  And what about those optical tests? Strehl ? Interferometry? On a single sample of one mass-produced RFT? How helpful is that? 

I think you're right though in that you wouldn't be able to make a decision based upon all of the information in the video and that's something I can agree with...


  • BFaucett and kksmith like this

#47 peleuba

peleuba

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,641
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 29 August 2020 - 03:47 PM

It's obvious to most on this post that it is indeed a review of the 120mm. Maybe not super in depth, but a review none the less.

 

At any rate this review will help some determine if they want to buy said scope or not.

 

Yes - it would seem that many folks have a low bar as to what constitutes a review...

 

Fix your link - its not working.



#48 peleuba

peleuba

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,641
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 29 August 2020 - 04:00 PM

Your point about "a more in-depth review that delves into the physical attributes, design and some optical tests" sounds impressive but when you consider the physical attributes such as the weight of the optical tube in question, with and without accessories, the esoteric size of rings to support it,  and the weight necessary to support the unit on a mount seem to reasonably covered in the review. The design is a known factor, ie how much more does one need to know about the design of a short focus F5 rich field refractor? Do you really need to know the type of glass in the objective?How many baffles? The length of a dew cap? The amount of camera weight its standard focuser can support?  And what about those optical tests? Strehl ? Interferometry? On a single sample of one mass-produced RFT? How helpful is that? 

I think you're right though in that you wouldn't be able to make a decision based upon all of the information in the video and that's something I can agree with...

 

Optical testing is very helpful.  You said its a particular data point which is better then no data points.  Why are you hung up on Strehl and interferometry?  (FULL DISCLOSURE:  I have an optical bench with two interferometers and perform autocollimation testing)  I don't find Strehl values that important on a telescope like this, but rather qualitative testing certainly is.

 

The design is a known factor?   I don't swim in this end of the pool (short focal length imported refractors).  So personally, I don't know the details of the design nor baffle count.  But a good review would include this.  A product demo, probably not; and this one didn't.

 

Agree to disagree...


Edited by peleuba, 29 August 2020 - 04:02 PM.


#49 aeajr

aeajr

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 14,401
  • Joined: 26 Jun 2015
  • Loc: Long Island, New York, USA

Posted 29 August 2020 - 04:03 PM

I thought it was a wonderful review.   

 

For a $250 I don't think full spectral analysis or whatever it is people would like are necessary. They are not the target for this review.  

 

In fact I have been looking at a used one.  I have had my eye on an AT102ED for $600.   But I can pick one of these up used for $150 with the rings.   I may get it. 

 

Hopefully it will do OK on my ES Twilight 1 mount. 


  • tony_spina, zjc26138, Jim7728 and 4 others like this

#50 samovu

samovu

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,555
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2013
  • Loc: So CA

Posted 29 August 2020 - 04:17 PM

I signed up and am following Ed as I mentioned in my previous post. Whatever this one YouTube video is, the more of us sign up, I’m guessing the more Ed will be motivated to do more. 

 

Cheers,

John




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics