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California fires killing astronomy

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#26 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 06:23 PM

In short, there's no guarantee summer climate conditions favorable to wildfires won't be a prevailing climate feature in California for years to come before returning to a less fire-vulnerable prevailing state..

 

 

There is no guarantee that the climate in California will ever return to a "less fire-vulnerable prevailing state.."

 

Jon


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#27 25585

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 10:27 PM

Blood sky in SF

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#28 TOMDEY

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 06:01 AM

Hi, Red! Oh, but I do visit friends close to LA and Portland frequently, for decades, and am very familiar with the situation. Neglect of controlled burns is the major culprit. It's nature saying pay me now or later. The list of reasons to avoid the area continues to expand.    Tom


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#29 MJB87

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 11:40 AM

Just a friendly reminder that our TOS restrict topics that can be posted:
 
"Topics about politics, religion, or ‘hot-topic’ issues (global warming, taxes, lifestyles, etc.) that can easily become incendiary are not welcome here. Moderators have the discretion to determine if a topic or post is within these boundaries."
 
We've had to remove some of the posts that strayed into "hot-topic" areas.
 
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#30 Ron359

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 11:41 AM

There is no guarantee that the climate in California will ever return to a "less fire-vulnerable prevailing state.."

 

Jon

There are a couple factors not mentioned - if you look at the GOES satellite images the entire central and coastal ranges from Calif into Oregon are a series of individual huge wildfire plumes that look like the entire range of Cascade Volcanoes have all erupted at once.   This is not due to "natural causes" of random lightning strikes and many if not most must be due to humans setting the fires either intentionally or by 'mistake'.  NPS says 85% of all wildfires are set by humans. Also the smoke from the CA-Ore. fires spread over the entire western US and into the midwest on some days.  With a central high pressure over the west, smoke from wildfires here in CO. was actually going into N. Mex. and AZ while CA Smoke was being carried into MT and south into CO.  and was thick enough to smell and obscure the Sun and other stars, here for several weeks., -killing all astronomy across the western US and midwest much of this summer.   We had a brief break of snow and clouds this week, but its only enough to re-direct the CA-OR smoke somewhere else and I fully expect it will be back here, along with smoke from the 4 big fires still burning in CO.   

 

https://rammb-slider...r&x=1751&y=3907


Edited by Ron359, 11 September 2020 - 11:59 AM.


#31 Cali

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 11:48 AM

I went out to get the paper this morning and the smoke was so dense that there was a cloud of haze between my abode and the house across the street. The car in the driveway was covered in ash. My p-gram is in the back, protected with a black tarp that is now a ghostly white. 

 

The "Red Dawn" sky of a few days ago was downright eerie, lifeless. The only color of the sky, ground, trees, neighbor's cat, everything was one color: red, and a dirty red at that with blackish gray shadows.

 

I just crossed Mars off of my bucket list.

 

- Cal


Edited by Cali, 12 September 2020 - 11:51 AM.


#32 jcj380

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 02:10 PM

GOES East shows the SoCal smoke plume has almost reached Chicago today.  Clouds and rain the past week, but it's supposed to clear tomorrow.  Curious to see conditions once the clouds are gone.


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#33 Cali

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 02:15 PM

I learned a new word today.

 

pyrocumulonimbus

 

- Cal



#34 Chucke

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 05:53 PM

Yesterday afternoon I went out to look at the sun. It looked a lot like Mars through a telescope.  A little plume even mimicked the darker albedo features. This in SE AZ.


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#35 SonnyE

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 07:28 PM

We've had apocalyptic skies here since the Gender Reveal Party set off their Pyrotechnics in the dried up National Forest.

All it takes is one idiot, and a match.

 

And Lord knows, we have plenty of both.

 

I've woken up to Red Ball Sunrises, Brown Sunsets, and looked up from peeing in the yard to ominous blank skies for a couple of weeks now.

Like Clouds and Rain, all we can do is wait it out.

 

And... it's only going to get worse. (The idiocy)


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#36 LDW47

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 10:56 AM

The fires are even affecting the sky conditions way over east where I live and not just a bit according to the mapping ! I wondered why on the clear nights it wasn’t quite the same. Unreal, I really feel for all that live right under that dome.


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#37 LDW47

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 10:59 AM

We've had apocalyptic skies here since the Gender Reveal Party set off their Pyrotechnics in the dried up National Forest.

All it takes is one idiot, and a match.

 

And Lord knows, we have plenty of both.

 

I've woken up to Red Ball Sunrises, Brown Sunsets, and looked up from peeing in the yard to ominous blank skies for a couple of weeks now.

Like Clouds and Rain, all we can do is wait it out.

 

And... it's only going to get worse. (The idiocy)

And they probably still think they didn’t do anything wrong ? What are the repercussions for them, its a terrible world right now ! 



#38 LDW47

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 11:03 AM

There is no guarantee that the climate in California will ever return to a "less fire-vulnerable prevailing state.."

 

Jon

Scary ! I hope you are wrong, we easterners do feel for you guys, even from Canada.



#39 MessyA

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 11:20 AM

It is another "I can't do that right now" event on top of the others, which makes it even more upsetting.

I can't hang out with all the people I would like to, or go out to eat anywhere I want, or perform as a musician with my band, or...., or any number of things I enjoy- because of being 70 and very cautious about the virus. Now, one activity that  I could do "isolated"- getting out with my scope, has been taken off the possibility list. I'm lucky to live in Tucson where the skies are usually so clear and the evenings not too cold. And this is the ideal time with the planets and the Summer Milky Way..

I stepped outside last night and looked up at the sky- I could barely see Jupiter (and it was orange)...  Stars? Nope. None. And it's almost New Moon!


Edited by MessyA, 13 September 2020 - 11:23 AM.

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#40 csa/montana

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 11:50 AM

After over a week of clear skies, the California/Oregon fires smoke has once again made it to Montana.

 

IMGP1850.JPGsmall.JPG


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#41 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 12:13 PM

After over a week of clear skies, the California/Oregon fires smoke has once again made it to Montana.

 

 

 

:waytogo:

 

I suspect the Oregon fires are also making it over your way.

 

The fires are quite far to the north of me but my sunrises are very similar to your photo.

 

Last night there were a few semi-clear patches, enough to see some brighter DSOs.

 

Jon



#42 LDW47

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 12:21 PM

Skies at my home are supposed to be average tonite, I’ll give it another try as a bit of an experiment !



#43 FirstSight

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 12:23 PM

It's been kind of cloudy and wet here in the Southeastern US - which obscures whether any of the western wildfires smoke is making it this far yet.



#44 Kevin Thurman

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 10:19 PM

Was supposed to be a clear night tonight in chicago. I noticed just before sunset a wave of dark haziness and I'm imaging through that haze now. Cassiopeia is hard to find. I dobut the data will be very valuable. I hope this isn't smoke because if the smoke is this bad even over here I might have wasted money on renting a cabin for a dark sky trip nearby this coming week. At least I still have a house, I guess, but this sucks!



#45 jcj380

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 09:48 AM

Looks like a smoke plume is running from Colorado to Pennsylvania now.  Really high humidity this morning so I'm not sure what's what, but the sky here is cream of something soup right now.  tongue2.gif

 

I guess my dark site trip will have to wait.


Edited by jcj380, 14 September 2020 - 09:49 AM.


#46 KTAZ

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 09:51 AM

A picture is worth a thousand words...I just check the GOES Image Viewer every morning for my sector of the US. I check it a few times a day and it tells me everything I want to know with respect to the smoke trail.

Edited by KTAZ, 14 September 2020 - 02:12 PM.

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#47 csa/montana

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 09:52 AM

Smoke for the west coast fires, much worse here today, from yesterday!



#48 byi

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 10:51 AM

I've been wondering how much to factor in smoke for my observing plans. Not something I have previously had to think about here on the east coast, but I'm thinking of scrubbing my plans for a trip to Cherry Springs tomorrow after looking at GOES and RAP data. Anyone have any pointers on converting maps and forecasts into expected conditions on the ground? Has anyone had any experience with Astrospheric's new smoke transparency model? I know it uses RAP data, but I do not know how it converts from smoke density to transparency.


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#49 BrettG

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:01 PM

The smoke has reached Massachusetts - the blue parts of the sky are not nearly as blue, and the sunlight coming through the particles is dispersed.



#50 Kevin Thurman

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:29 PM

I've been wondering how much to factor in smoke for my observing plans. Not something I have previously had to think about here on the east coast, but I'm thinking of scrubbing my plans for a trip to Cherry Springs tomorrow after looking at GOES and RAP data. Anyone have any pointers on converting maps and forecasts into expected conditions on the ground? Has anyone had any experience with Astrospheric's new smoke transparency model? I know it uses RAP data, but I do not know how it converts from smoke density to transparency.

For me (Chicago area) astrospheric's transparency is just a white bar (indicates "cloudy") for the foreseeable future. We will see how this evolves over the course of the week.


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