Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

ZWO ASI 294 MM PRO: First impressions and test images.

  • Please log in to reply
959 replies to this topic

#551 Jim Thommes

Jim Thommes

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,128
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2004
  • Loc: San DiegoCA USA

Posted 23 November 2020 - 07:29 PM

Regarding mottling in flats.....

 

Without the intention of any specific hypothesis to test, I happened to have used a friend's Astrodon 3nm Ha filters and my own Baader 6 nm Ha and taken flats on both. My observation was that the mottling appeared on the 3 nm filter but am not seeing this on the 6 nm filter.

 

Thinking about the high contrast expected in the 3 nm filters, this could bring out any slight irregularities in the sensor's AR coating. Perhaps also coupled with the longer wavelength in Andy's hypothesis and Lead_Weight's observation, this could be an impact causing the mottling.

 

But it also seems to me that if any/all of the hypotheses are correct, than flats absolutely would calibrate the image. (Since the pixel non-uniformity would be fixed in the pixel array and not random.)

 

I've only see it appear in my narrowband light subs of HA and SII, but not in OIII. And it's not appeared in any broadband images for me.

 

 


 



#552 andysea

andysea

    Aurora

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 4,671
  • Joined: 03 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Seattle, WA

Posted 23 November 2020 - 08:18 PM

Those are good questions Jim, I will have to see if the current ASCOM driver also covers the FW but I think it does and it also covers the EAF. When I installed it, it asked me to remove the current ASCOM drivers for the ASI cameras, FW and EAF focuser.

 

Regarding the mottling, your observations match mine. I have the 3nm and 5nm AD h-alpha filters and I see a similar behavior to what you mention. 



#553 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 11,855
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 23 November 2020 - 09:40 PM

I will have to see if the current ASCOM driver also covers the FW but I think it does and it also covers the EAF. When I installed it, it asked me to remove the current ASCOM drivers for the ASI cameras, FW and EAF focuser.

I have run the ZWO_ASI_Camera_ASCOM.exe and can verify that it 'does' first remove and then update all three. This seems to be different from previous where EFW, etc. needed to installed separately. Regards

 

 

IMPORTANT: This is ZWO ASI ASCOM driver and is different from ASCOM platform; latest ASCOM platform needs to be present/installed first

Attached Thumbnails

  • Capture1.jpg

Edited by mmalik, 23 November 2020 - 09:47 PM.


#554 lakerunr

lakerunr

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2018
  • Loc: WI

Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:04 PM

I downloaded latest ASCOM Platform and camera drivers from ZWO. Now the camera settings default to BIN 1 = pixel size 2.315 microns, and pixel scale 8288 x 5644, FIT image file size 91,367 KB. BIN 2 is previous default settings (4.63 micron pixels, etc.). This is both with SGP and ASI Studio (ASICap).

 

The only downside I see to the change at this point is that the FIT files image headers now show the 4.63 pixel mode as BIN 2. This seems to work OK with previous darks and flats libraries using PI ImageCalibration, however batch pre-processing (BPP and WBPP) fails, because it looks at image headers binning mode instead of image geometry. I rarely use batch pre-processing unless I just want to get a preview of a partially complete object data.

 

Also, I was using 4x4 binning for plate-solving, but now that scale will be halved. It will probably be fine, though. Due to weather, I probably won't get to try this for a few days.

 

I've only had the camera since Oct. 7, and so far have only used it with one rig, so it's not a terrible ordeal to re-do libraries.

 

Does anyone know if there is a utility to batch edit FIT file headers?

 

I bet there will be some confusion until all utility/tool sites like Astronomy Tools update their camera data.



#555 andysea

andysea

    Aurora

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 4,671
  • Joined: 03 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Seattle, WA

Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:19 PM

I would just take new calibration frames, they are very easy to take and that way there will be no confusion.


  • lakerunr likes this

#556 lakerunr

lakerunr

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2018
  • Loc: WI

Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:21 PM

Regarding mottling in flats.....

 

Without the intention of any specific hypothesis to test, I happened to have used a friend's Astrodon 3nm Ha filters and my own Baader 6 nm Ha and taken flats on both. My observation was that the mottling appeared on the 3 nm filter but am not seeing this on the 6 nm filter.

 

Thinking about the high contrast expected in the 3 nm filters, this could bring out any slight irregularities in the sensor's AR coating. Perhaps also coupled with the longer wavelength in Andy's hypothesis and Lead_Weight's observation, this could be an impact causing the mottling.

 

But it also seems to me that if any/all of the hypotheses are correct, than flats absolutely would calibrate the image. (Since the pixel non-uniformity would be fixed in the pixel array and not random.)

 

 

 

I have both Chroma 3 nm and Astrodon 5 nm narrowband filters. I see the odd patterns on Ha and SII with both sets of filters on flats and light frames. It seems to calibrate out using flats and dark flats. I do not see these patterns using LRGB or OIII. Flipping the filters and adding spacers have not solved the problem.



#557 suvowner

suvowner

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 642
  • Joined: 22 May 2016
  • Loc: Arkansas

Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:23 PM

5min sub at 2.315 pixels with asi294mm- pro F3.57 and 357mm focal length gain 120 for both

 

files are 93mb each

 

heart_300sec_1x1__0002 (3).jpeg  

 

bin 2x2 - 4.63 pixels 5 min astrodon 3nm ha filter

 

heart_300sec_2x2__0002 (1).jpeg


Edited by suvowner, 23 November 2020 - 11:57 PM.

  • starhunter50, mmalik, lakerunr and 1 other like this

#558 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 11,855
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:41 PM

Does anyone know for sure how original 2x2 bin was being implemented in MM? Was it on-chip or software based? In other words, now that we have 1x1 option available, can we tell retrospectively how 2x2 was originally being implemented? With 1x1 exposed, now if we bin 2x2, would it be on-chip or software based? Would it be different 2x2 kind of binning than original/default? Can definitive answers be had of these questions? Does anyone know? Would ZWO tell us? Regards


Edited by mmalik, 23 November 2020 - 11:42 PM.


#559 Astrojedi

Astrojedi

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,344
  • Joined: 27 May 2015
  • Loc: SoCal

Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:51 PM

x2 binning is in HW. This is Sony’s new quad bayer architecture which HW bins the sub pixels.



#560 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 11,855
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 24 November 2020 - 12:17 AM

x2 binning is in HW. This is Sony’s new quad bayer architecture which HW bins the sub pixels.

Question actually was how does native x2 HW binning compare to now that it has been unlocked. Is 2x2 now hardware or software binning? Can someone post results of the comparison as to if there are any differences or not? Does 2x2 automatically revert back to HW binning? Regards


Edited by mmalik, 24 November 2020 - 12:17 AM.


#561 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 11,855
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 24 November 2020 - 12:27 AM

2.315 pixels

 

bin 2x2 - 4.63 pixels

Here is the close-up; stars will not line up due to varied orientation. Regards

 

 

Note: 1x1 'seems' less noisy with less AG?

Attached Thumbnails

  • Compare2.jpg

Edited by mmalik, 24 November 2020 - 12:31 AM.


#562 suvowner

suvowner

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 642
  • Joined: 22 May 2016
  • Loc: Arkansas

Posted 24 November 2020 - 12:47 AM

5 min gain 0 bin 1x1 2.315 pixels at F3.57 and 357mm astrodon ha 3nm 

 

heart_300sec_gain_01x1__0004 (1).jpeg

 

same settings expect bin 2x2 4.63 pixels

 

heart_300sec_gain_0_Ha_2x2__0003 (1).jpeg

 

fyi the banding only shows up like this in the significantly reduced jpg files


Edited by suvowner, 24 November 2020 - 12:48 AM.


#563 VittorioL

VittorioL

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 21 Nov 2020
  • Loc: Italy

Posted 24 November 2020 - 05:26 AM

Hi and thanks for accepting me in this forum and...sorry for my terrible english :-)

I have an ASI 294 mm-pro since few days (before I had an ASI 1600 mm.pro) and I have some question:

- I need to do Bias frames?

- With a FWC of 66 ke and a QE of about 90%, on your opinion, is better (for narrowband imaging) to do longest exposures (to take advantage of the higher FWC) or shorter (to take advantage of the higher QE)?

I wrote to ZWO but without reply.

 

Thanks

Vittorio



#564 cloudynites

cloudynites

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: 24 Jan 2016

Posted 24 November 2020 - 08:18 AM

Hi and thanks for accepting me in this forum and...sorry for my terrible english :-)

I have an ASI 294 mm-pro since few days (before I had an ASI 1600 mm.pro) and I have some question:

- I need to do Bias frames?

- With a FWC of 66 ke and a QE of about 90%, on your opinion, is better (for narrowband imaging) to do longest exposures (to take advantage of the higher FWC) or shorter (to take advantage of the higher QE)?

I wrote to ZWO but without reply.

 

Thanks

Vittorio

Interesting questions Vittorio!



#565 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 11,855
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 24 November 2020 - 09:10 AM

- With a FWC of 66 ke and a QE of about 90%, on your opinion, is better (for narrowband imaging) to do longest exposures (to take advantage of the higher FWC) or shorter (to take advantage of the higher QE)?

No need go too long. With ever sensitive chips, NB exposures are starting to coming down. 3-5 min seems quite optimal for NB under decently dark skies. Regards


Edited by mmalik, 24 November 2020 - 05:50 PM.

  • VittorioL likes this

#566 Astrojedi

Astrojedi

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,344
  • Joined: 27 May 2015
  • Loc: SoCal

Posted 24 November 2020 - 09:42 AM

Question actually was how does native x2 HW binning compare to now that it has been unlocked. Is 2x2 now hardware or software binning? Can someone post results of the comparison as to if there are any differences or not? Does 2x2 automatically revert back to HW binning? Regards

It is the same as before. The x2 bin now is the same as the prior default x1 bin mode. This is driven by Sony’s quad pixel architecture. Not sure why you keep asking same question.



#567 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 11,855
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 24 November 2020 - 10:04 AM

The x2 bin now is the same as the prior default x1 bin mode. This is driven by Sony’s quad pixel architecture. Not sure why you keep asking same question.

I understand Quad Bayer; please stop answering and let others chime in.

 

 

My question is quite simple, what's the demark now between HW binning and software binning? Is HW binning now gone and all binning is now software? I think most understand my question but there may not be an answer. Regards



#568 Astrojedi

Astrojedi

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,344
  • Joined: 27 May 2015
  • Loc: SoCal

Posted 24 November 2020 - 10:09 AM

I understand Quad Bayer; please stop answering and let others chime in.

 

 

My question is quite simple, what's the demark now between HW binning and software binning? Is HW binning now gone and all binning is now software? I think most understand my question but there may not be an answer. Regards

I think I answered that but for some reason you don’t want to accept it. The x2 bin is still HW bin using the quad pixel architecture. 
 

if you x3 or x4 bin using the ZWO driver (not on chip HW binning) after the update that will likely result in SW binning since the quad bayer architecture only supports the sub pixel binning.

 

The 2.3 micron units being exposed by ZWO & QHY are better thought of as sub pixels in Sony’s architecture. Based on their FB post ZWO reads out the sensor in the default mode for x2 bin which results in a hardware binned 4.6 micron pixel.

 

Not sure where the confusion is...

 


Edited by Astrojedi, 24 November 2020 - 10:21 AM.

  • mmalik likes this

#569 A. Viegas

A. Viegas

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,065
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2012
  • Loc: New York City/ CT

Posted 24 November 2020 - 12:44 PM

Will the older 294mc also be “unlocked” with the new driver download ?

Al

#570 Lead_Weight

Lead_Weight

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,949
  • Joined: 21 Jul 2016
  • Loc: Houston

Posted 24 November 2020 - 01:35 PM

Here is the close-up; stars will not line up due to varied orientation. Regards

 

 

Note: 1x1 'seems' less noisy with less AG?

I noticed this right away on my ASI6200 at Bin1 and Bin2. The smaller pixels of Bin 1 really means the size of the noise pixels are smaller, and it does a better job of hiding the noise. Can't wait to try this camera at Bin 1, I didn't realize they already released the drivers, as it was just in beta testing it seemed earlier this week.



#571 sharkmelley

sharkmelley

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,514
  • Joined: 19 Feb 2013
  • Loc: UK

Posted 25 November 2020 - 02:26 AM

I just downloaded the new SDK to use the 294 at the resolution of 8288x5644 pixels. It seems to be working fine.

The way it seems to work is that bin1x1 is now the higher resolution setting and it's the default. If one wants to enjoy the benefits of the larger pixels then bin 2x2 must be selected. I will run the sharp cap sensor analysis later today but I'm expecting the bin 1x1 image to be 12 bit.

Have you had a chance to check whether or not the 47 megapixel mode of the ASI 294MM PRO is 12bit?

 

Over on the QHY thread, the first "unlocked" 47 megapixel images from the QHY294M PRO (i.e. mono) camera are only 10bit:

https://www.cloudyni...ing/?p=10678651

 

Mark


Edited by sharkmelley, 25 November 2020 - 02:42 AM.


#572 suvowner

suvowner

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 642
  • Joined: 22 May 2016
  • Loc: Arkansas

Posted 25 November 2020 - 05:12 AM

bin 1 asi294mm pro on sharpcap

 

Screen Shot 2020-11-25 at 4.09.57 AM.jpg


  • sharkmelley and Astrojedi like this

#573 Astrojedi

Astrojedi

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,344
  • Joined: 27 May 2015
  • Loc: SoCal

Posted 25 November 2020 - 06:47 AM

Thanks. Looks like a full 12bits of dynamic range. But the sensor linearity does not seem right. Only 70% linear? Was this analysis run using even illumination?



#574 imtl

imtl

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,487
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2016
  • Loc: Down in a hole

Posted 25 November 2020 - 06:55 AM

I think its because the analysis goes up to really high gains. hmm.gif



#575 Dimperev

Dimperev

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2017
  • Loc: Saint-Petersburg

Posted 25 November 2020 - 07:01 AM

According to the information on the QHY294M Pro camera, in the 47 MP mode and with an amplification above 1600 (above 120 for ZWO), there should be a sharp decrease in the reading noise to 0.8 electron.




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics