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Takahashi Serial Numbers

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#1 Bomber Bob

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 07:57 PM

My FC-50's Serial Number is 8424.  So, it was made in 1984, according to 2 different articles on Takahashi, up until Tak started using a Letter + Number scheme, the first 2 digits in the SN are year made...

 

So, the Seller was most correct among all the date estimates made on it thus far.

 

(Couldn't find confirmation on an official Takahashi document, but I asked Mulder & Sculley to check the X-Files.)


Edited by Bomber Bob, 08 September 2020 - 08:04 PM.


#2 Esso2112

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 09:29 PM

Kurt, what is that date based on?  Tak documentation?  No offense, and my feelings aren't hurt, but if we're gonna re-date my scope, it should based on more than Seller says, but I say, but he/she says...

JW,

 

It from the Takahashi Japan website, under the history tab. Google Translate calls it Light Green Leather. Lots of useful info. 

 

BTW- MC objective also indicates late 1980’s. What is the SN of your FC-50?
 

E20D1D91-2A8B-4ECF-B7CF-395AE3591BF7.jpeg


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#3 Bomber Bob

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 10:24 PM

My FC-50's Serial Number is 8424.  So, it was made in 1984, according to 2 different articles on Takahashi, up until Tak started using a Letter + Number scheme, the first 2 digits in the SN are year made...

 

So, the Seller was most correct among all the date estimates made on it thus far.

 

(Couldn't find confirmation on an official Takahashi document, but I asked Mulder & Sculley to check the X-Files.)

Post #41....



#4 Esso2112

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 07:22 AM

My FC-50's Serial Number is 8424.  So, it was made in 1984, according to 2 different articles on Takahashi, up until Tak started using a Letter + Number scheme, the first 2 digits in the SN are year made...

 

So, the Seller was most correct among all the date estimates made on it thus far.

 

(Couldn't find confirmation on an official Takahashi document, but I asked Mulder & Sculley to check the X-Files.)

Tak used two variations on the serial numbers. A 5 digit number where the first two numbers are the year, 84295 which would be 1984, and a 4 digit number where only the first number indicates the year, 8424, which would make yours 1988.  The 5 digit number started with the first Taks back in the late sixties and went through 1984.  In 1985, they switched to the 4 digit number.  The  2000’s seemed to have switched back to the 5 digit pattern.  About 2015,  they switched to the letter and number series which is indecipherable.  
 

Be happy yours is from 1988, it has a multicoated objective.  The early ones had a tendency to fog up.   My 1984 FC-76 was fogged and no matter what I did it wouldn’t clear up.  Ended up putting a newer MC objective in.  Since the Flourite element was broke, I played around with the fogged element a lot.  Repolishing did get rid of the fogging, but now it has no coating and I probably screwed up the figure.  


Edited by Esso2112, 09 September 2020 - 07:29 AM.

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#5 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 07:50 AM

Tak used two variations on the serial numbers. A 5 digit number where the first two numbers are the year, 84295 which would be 1984, and a 4 digit number where only the first number indicates the year, 8424, which would make yours 1988. The 5 digit number started with the first Taks back in the late sixties and went through 1984. In 1985, they switched to the 4 digit number. The 2000’s seemed to have switched back to the 5 digit pattern. About 2015, they switched to the letter and number series which is indecipherable.

Be happy yours is from 1988, it has a multicoated objective. The early ones had a tendency to fog up. My 1984 FC-76 was fogged and no matter what I did it wouldn’t clear up. Ended up putting a newer MC objective in. Since the Flourite element was broke, I played around with the fogged element a lot. Repolishing did get rid of the fogging, but now it has no coating and I probably screwed up the figure.


Again, what's the source of this info? There are lots of threads debating the serial numbers, with equally compelling evidence that these are production line numbers,not data codes -- which really makes sense when Tak shifted to Letter + Number as the first 2 digits.

#6 Terra Nova

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 07:52 AM

Tak used two variations on the serial numbers. A 5 digit number where the first two numbers are the year, 84295 which would be 1984, and a 4 digit number where only the first number indicates the year, 8424, which would make yours 1988.  The 5 digit number started with the first Taks back in the late sixties and went through 1984.  In 1985, they switched to the 4 digit number.  The  2000’s seemed to have switched back to the 5 digit pattern.  About 2015,  they switched to the letter and number series which is indecipherable.  
 

Be happy yours is from 1988, it has a multicoated objective.  The early ones had a tendency to fog up.   My 1984 FC-76 was fogged and no matter what I did it wouldn’t clear up.  Ended up putting a newer MC objective in.  Since the Flourite element was broke, I played around with the fogged element a lot.  Repolishing did get rid of the fogging, but now it has no coating and I probably screwed up the figure.  

So my FC-60 is #97045 and is MC (multi-coated), so that would make it a 1997. And knowing that the model FC-60 (F8.3) wasn’t introduced by Takahashi until 1990, that makes perfect sense!

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Edited by Terra Nova, 09 September 2020 - 08:04 AM.

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#7 Terra Nova

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 08:04 AM

Again, what's the source of this info? There are lots of threads debating the serial numbers, with equally compelling evidence that these are production line numbers,not data codes -- which really makes sense when Tak shifted to Letter + Number as the first 2 digits.

The Takahashi History Website shows the FC-50 being introduced in 1981. They show three period examples and they are all trimmed in grey.

 

They show the FC-60 being introduced in 1990 and it is shown as trimmed in pale green. Other models introduced prior to 1988 are also shown as trimmed in grey and those introduced in 1988 or later as trimmed in pale green, for example the FC-100 which explicitly shows the 1981 (grey) and 1988 (pale green) versions.

 

http://www.astrosurf...kahashi_fc.html

 

I don’t know how much clearer it needs to be!


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#8 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 08:14 AM

I'm talking about the SNs not the paint colors. The colors are also debated in other threads -- especially the blue. Tell ya what, when I get a letter from Tak on their letterhead & notarized, I'll accept that as authoritative.

 

[Was on my phone at the Doctor's office.]


Edited by Bomber Bob, 09 September 2020 - 09:04 AM.

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#9 starman876

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 08:29 AM

I'm talking about the SNs not the paint colors. The colors are also debated in other threads -- especially the blue. Tell ya what, when I get a letter from Takb on their letterhead & notarized, I'll accept that as authoritative.

I would stand my ground lol.gif  Who do these people think they are rulez.gif


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#10 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 09:09 AM

I would stand my ground lol.gif  Who do these people think they are rulez.gif

Seriously...  Old Folks nit-pickin' & fussin' when most (sane) CNers on this thread want to see Scope Pictures...

 

I was being tongue-in-cheek earlier.  Here's BB's Challenge to Authoritative Sources:  IF you have an official vendor document that explains serial numbers, paint codes, etc.  SCAN it, upload it to a public site, and post a link (URL) to it.  On any of these contentious issues that matter only to CSNs (Classic Scope Nutz).  If we're gonna insist on being rational & sciency, then present the evidence.  Just that simple, folks.


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#11 starman876

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 09:14 AM

Seriously...  Old Folks nit-pickin' & fussin' when most (sane) CNers on this thread want to see Scope Pictures...

 

I was being tongue-in-cheek earlier.  Here's BB's Challenge to Authoritative Sources:  IF you have an official vendor document that explains serial numbers, paint codes, etc.  SCAN it, upload it to a public site, and post a link (URL) to it.  On any of these contentious issues that matter only to CSNs (Classic Scope Nutz).  If we're gonna insist on being rational & sciency, then present the evidence.  Just that simple, folks.

I agree, more pictures less talk


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#12 Terra Nova

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 10:15 AM

I'm talking about the SNs not the paint colors. The colors are also debated in other threads -- especially the blue. Tell ya what, when I get a letter from Tak on their letterhead & notarized, I'll accept that as authoritative.

 

[Was on my phone at the Doctor's office.]

To re-phrase that the way my father would have said it: “One needs to know when to quit!”

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#13 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 10:18 AM

To quote another fictional character, "Show me the Money!"

 

Really, Terra?  We're parsing a date of 1984 vs 1988, not selecting a Mars landing site.  And, so far, we're relying on authoritative statements.  I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for solid evidence to support claims...

 

Here's another quote:  Everybody Says, but... Does Anybody KNOW?  There are at least 3 Everybody Says Groups for just the serial numbers:  First 2 Digits are Dates;  First 2 Digits are Dates, but only for SNs with 5+ characters;  SNs are production line codes, that may correlate with a date.  So... take your pick, 'cause I haven't seen one Source Document for ANY of these 3 Everybody Says Groups...


Edited by Bomber Bob, 09 September 2020 - 10:24 AM.


#14 nicknacknock

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 10:29 AM

To quote the TOS, let’s keep this civil and friendly ;)
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#15 Terra Nova

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 11:01 AM

To quote another fictional character, "Show me the Money!"

 

Really, Terra?  We're parsing a date of 1984 vs 1988, not selecting a Mars landing site.  And, so far, we're relying on authoritative statements.  I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for solid evidence to support claims...

 

Here's another quote:  Everybody Says, but... Does Anybody KNOW?  There are at least 3 Everybody Says Groups for just the serial numbers:  First 2 Digits are Dates;  First 2 Digits are Dates, but only for SNs with 5+ characters;  SNs are production line codes, that may correlate with a date.  So... take your pick, 'cause I haven't seen one Source Document for ANY of these 3 Everybody Says Groups...

Well, we (two of us) have shown you evidence that you are wrong, and you have shown nothing to prove that you are right. Again, to quote one of my many life lessons that I learned, albeit hardheadedly, from my father: “ It takes a bigger person to admit that they were wrong, than one who continues to espouse that they are right when they aren’t.”

Anyway, I’ll leave you with a thought from Tolstoy,  

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#16 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 11:28 AM

Well, we (two of us) have shown you evidence that you are wrong, and you have shown nothing to prove that you are right.

 

Where's a Source Document for the interpretation of the Serial Number?  I'll keep askin' until I see it, thanks.  Until then, there's No Proof.  Just Posts.



#17 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 11:31 AM

Well, we (two of us) have shown you evidence that you are wrong, and you have shown nothing to prove that you are right.

 

Where's a Source Document for the interpretation of the Serial Number?  I'll keep askin' until I see it, thanks.  Until then, there's No Proof.  Just Posts.

 

Pictures please.  

 

Jon



#18 Esso2112

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 11:35 AM

Well, we (two of us) have shown you evidence that you are wrong, and you have shown nothing to prove that you are right.

 

Where's a Source Document for the interpretation of the Serial Number?  I'll keep askin' until I see it, thanks.  Until then, there's No Proof.  Just Posts.

I have no proof on the 5 vs 4 digit sn, just observations.  Proof is lime green color (1988) and multicoated objective (October 1986). 
 

Here’s a link to the google translated page from the Takahashi Japan corporate website. Click the third button down on the left side and it will show you the history of when things changed, when they were introduced, etc. 

 

https://translate.go..._RHIRR6ChUNspfw



#19 Terra Nova

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 11:43 AM

Pictures please.  

 

Jon

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#20 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 11:57 AM

Again, I'm talking about the Serial Number, not the paint color...  Go over to the REFRACTOR Forum, and spend a day going through all the threads on assigning dates to Tak refractors based on physical characteristics -- it's not as solid as the posts in this thread...

 

Charlie has asked nicely that we drop this off-topic stuff.



#21 Kasmos

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 02:06 PM

I once did some research into decoding serial numbers for dating and identifying models on another product. What I found was, when you compare a known sample group's numbers and features, by a process of elimination you can come up with a logical conclusion. Therefore, using the color information along with the serial numbers should give you enough data to date them.


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#22 starman876

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 02:08 PM

Why not ask Tak to explain the numbering system. Would be a lot easier than all this speculation of how it works.



#23 Terra Nova

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 02:11 PM

Again, I'm talking about the Serial Number, not the paint color...  

 

And I’m talking about trim colors used in the FC-series. Trim Color is a good indicator of age as the company selected different colors over the years to accent their scopes. It was apparently an ‘out with the old, in with the new’ as far as those colors went. There is no indication that they used different colors simultaneously over the years and in fact, the color change being discussed (grey to green) is highlighted in the company history as taking place in 1988. It’s interesting that about this time (around end of the 1980s or beginning of the 1990s) other high-end Japanese telescope manufacturing companies implemented a similar change (from some shade of grey or black to some shade of green); Vixen and Pentax being examples. 
 

Here’s a better view of the FC-100 from the Takahashi history web site that I linked above:

 

Top is the 1981 version, trimmed in grey. Bottom is the 1988 version, trimmed in pale green: 

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#24 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 02:12 PM

Why not ask Tak to explain the numbering system. Would be a lot easier than all this speculation of how it works.

There's a post on a thread in the Refractor Forum where a CNer contacted Takahashi USA about the SNs; but, I think that was just for the FC-100 models.



#25 starman876

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 02:16 PM

There's a post on a thread in the Refractor Forum where a CNer contacted Takahashi USA about the SNs; but, I think that was just for the FC-100 models.

Well, call them back and get the information on the scopes you guys are interested in.   They are very nice people to deal with.   I have a good number of Taks so I am always talking with them for something.  You ask about a serial number dating and they tell you straight away how to tell the year of production.  




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