Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Takahashi Serial Numbers

  • Please log in to reply
74 replies to this topic

#51 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,114
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 09 September 2020 - 06:19 PM

I’ll sleep like a baby. The whole SN thing is interesting, but what matters is what you see when you look through one of these fine little refractors.

Me too! All I know is that I love my two Taks! And also, as a general rule of thumb:

  1. The grey-trimmed ones are older than the light green-trimmed ones.
  2. Most of the grey ones if not all, date from the 1980s, the green ones come after.
  3. The MC objectives are later than the non-multicoated ones.
  4. The basic working dates we have are 1981 for the inception of the FC-series and 1988 for the color change of the trim from grey to green.

I find the color and coating attributes useful in the gross, relative determination of what’s an early one and what’s not.


Edited by Terra Nova, 09 September 2020 - 06:42 PM.

  • Defenderslideguitar, Esso2112 and Marcus Roman like this

#52 Kasmos

Kasmos

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,084
  • Joined: 19 Aug 2015
  • Loc: So Cal

Posted 09 September 2020 - 06:26 PM

It wouldn't be the first time a retailer was wrong. Sometimes the people who make and or sell a product aren't into the details of their products as much as the fanatics that own them. Especially years later. (If an example is needed I'll give it).

 

If I was Bob I'd look to see if there's any evidence of it being repainted. Visible or otherwise. I have a hunch it wasn't.

 

That said, it's his scope so he can believe what he likes. 


  • Terra Nova and Defenderslideguitar like this

#53 Defenderslideguitar

Defenderslideguitar

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,580
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2016
  • Loc: Connecticut

Posted 09 September 2020 - 06:26 PM

could it be that the switch  to light green from gray   took place at different times  on different models   like when some sizes  still had nos?

 

 

 

 

 

and Oh brother     These  discussions and pics of  the 50 and 60 mm Taks get me thinking  I love to add a small classic Tak      In addition to my jones on the old FC-76      but we have time    they pop up now and then...


Edited by Defenderslideguitar, 09 September 2020 - 06:28 PM.

  • Terra Nova likes this

#54 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,114
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 09 September 2020 - 06:30 PM

You guys might no sleep right tonight with all these issues on serial numbers.  So let me get this straight.  You do not trust what one of the leading retailers of Tak products on their reports on serial numbers.  That seems logical foreheadslap.gif  Looks like you guys are going to have to figure this out on your own.  Who knows what you will come up with.  I can loan you my Green Lantern magic decoder ring if that will help smirk.gif

Well I loose confidence in such when it is reported (JW/BB word of mouth from representative at Texas Nautical) that the FIRST TWO NUMBERS = YY of manufacture, eg. 84XX = made in 1984, and then we have a member (Marcus Roman) with a scope (FC76) with SN 64XX and paperwork that is was new in 1986.

 

Can you please explain that to me?

 

(Other than its the Birth Year of the Emperor + 64.)

 

And then we have Rolo’s grey-trimmed FC-50. It’s first two numbers are 71 but FC-50s were introduced in 1981! Explain that!

 

That make NO sense to me! You can’t have it both ways!


Edited by Terra Nova, 09 September 2020 - 06:51 PM.

  • Marcus Roman likes this

#55 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 22,297
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 09 September 2020 - 07:18 PM

Well I loose confidence in such when it is reported (JW/BB word of mouth from representative at Texas Nautical) that the FIRST TWO NUMBERS = YY of manufacture, eg. 84XX = made in 1984, and then we have a member (Marcus Roman) with a scope (FC76) with SN 64XX and paperwork that is was new in 1986.

 

Can you please explain that to me?

 

(Other than its the Birth Year of the Emperor + 64.)

 

And then we have Rolo’s grey-trimmed FC-50. It’s first two numbers are 71 but FC-50s were introduced in 1981! Explain that!

 

That make NO sense to me! You can’t have it both ways!

My advice is to call the vendor and ask them these questions.  You are not going to find the answers here.  


  • Bomber Bob and 7Soeurs like this

#56 Esso2112

Esso2112

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,184
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2017
  • Loc: Magnolia, TX

Posted 09 September 2020 - 08:18 PM

Mulder and Scully may be able to help. Personally, I am going with the smoking man, he seemed to know more about what was going on. 


  • Terra Nova and Defenderslideguitar like this

#57 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,114
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 10 September 2020 - 06:20 AM

My advice is to call the vendor and ask them these questions.  You are not going to find the answers here.  

The thing is, I really don’t care how the serial numbers work. My whole thing was the colors not the serial numbers in the first place (when this discussion first began in the other thread), and that is completely settled as far as I’m concerned- grey 1981-1988, pale green 1988-.  I’ll leave the SN sorting to those so inclined, happily.



#58 Esso2112

Esso2112

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,184
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2017
  • Loc: Magnolia, TX

Posted 10 September 2020 - 07:28 AM

I can buy that the objective became fogged and they sent it in to have it replaced and repainted.  My FC-50 has a replacement objective.  

You are better off with the MC objective.  


Edited by Esso2112, 10 September 2020 - 07:33 AM.


#59 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 22,297
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 10 September 2020 - 07:47 AM

BRIAN WAS RIGHT -- My FC-50 was Re-Painted...

 

And... I have the photos -- I even posted some when I took the lens out to clean it:

 

attachicon.gifTakahashi FC-50 S003 (Lens Cell Disassembled).jpg

 

The inner parts of the outer cell are Battleship Gray.  And, TAK got a bit sloppy -- some of the green is on the last threads where the dewshield screws on.

 

Mystery of BB's FC-50 Solved:

- Made in 1984

- Warranty Service at / after 1988

- New Lens

- Repainted Hardware (exterior only -- the parts seen when assembled)

 

No idea on how old the lens is.  Based on the little I know about TAK, I wouldn't think they'd put an inferior to the original lens in a relatively expensive warranty service.  That Owner must've really liked this scope.

 

The Main Point:  If anyone can find & buy an Oddball Takahashi, it's Ol' BB.  I guess I'll start calling it "TOT" -- Tiny Odd Takahashi...

and you guys were doubting the vendors knowledge of these scopes.  Think of how many taks they have seen over the years. How many they have serviced and how many they have sold.  I am sure they have a master spreadsheet of serial numbers plus a magic decoder ring.


  • Bomber Bob likes this

#60 Kasmos

Kasmos

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,084
  • Joined: 19 Aug 2015
  • Loc: So Cal

Posted 10 September 2020 - 02:05 PM

While my hunch was wrong, I did wonder if there were visible signs of a repaint. That said, I would have thought a repaint would be a little harder than it turned out to be, in that it might completely covering any earlier paint. It brings up the question, who actually did or does the repainting? LS&S, TAK USA, or a outside vendor for one of them? 


  • Terra Nova likes this

#61 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 17,969
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, USA

Posted 10 September 2020 - 08:11 PM

My FC-50's Serial Number is 8424.  So, it was made in 1984, according to 2 different articles on Takahashi, up until Tak started using a Letter + Number scheme, the first 2 digits in the SN are year made...

 

So, the Seller was most correct among all the date estimates made on it thus far.

The Seller said 1983, so he was off by just 1 year.  Considering the rest of this thread, that was High Precision.



#62 AstroKerr

AstroKerr

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,244
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2017

Posted 10 September 2020 - 09:09 PM

if 84 is taken as the year, then the last two digits limit production to 100 units - 8400 thru 8499. Is that reasonable?

 

I believe paint matters.

 

We should break for Pommy juice, Lindt Lindors and grapes.


Edited by AstroKerr, 10 September 2020 - 09:14 PM.


#63 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 17,969
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, USA

Posted 10 September 2020 - 09:14 PM

if 84 was the year, then the last two digits limit production to 100 units - 8400 thru 8499. Is that reasonable?

No... 8499... 84100... 84101... all the way to 84999 -- Tak adds a last digit when it rolls over... 


  • AstroKerr likes this

#64 AstroKerr

AstroKerr

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,244
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2017

Posted 10 September 2020 - 09:27 PM

Ah! Thank you!

 

This is all pretty interesting!


  • Bomber Bob likes this

#65 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 17,969
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, USA

Posted 10 September 2020 - 09:35 PM

Wish I'd taken notes during the convo -- Brian covered a lot of topics...


  • AstroKerr likes this

#66 Marcus Roman

Marcus Roman

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 264
  • Joined: 25 Jul 2018

Posted 11 September 2020 - 02:40 AM

The Seller said 1983, so he was off by just 1 year.  Considering the rest of this thread, that was High Precision.

All this is mind-boggling, maybe there was not a single serial number method for all Takahashi models or in different eras...in fact, would my FC76 a '64 year specimen so (SN 6450)??? When I have evidence it was bought new from Japanese shop in 1986...

Or maybe it is true there was a different year identification method when Takahashi moved from 4 digits SN to 5.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Taka FC76_MarcusRoman.png
  • Taka FC76_Manual.jpeg

  • Scott99, Terra Nova, Bomber Bob and 1 other like this

#67 Marcus Roman

Marcus Roman

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 264
  • Joined: 25 Jul 2018

Posted 13 September 2020 - 06:16 AM

 By the way a friend of mine was lucky enough to buy a Taka FC100N whose original owner said was bought in 1992. SN, five digits, matches...so this seems to incidentally support the theory of different year number identification methods passing from 4 digits to 5....

Attached Thumbnails

  • F68A99D3-BA2D-46DF-B775-871D0AF05D85.jpeg

  • Scott99, Terra Nova and Bomber Bob like this

#68 Esso2112

Esso2112

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,184
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2017
  • Loc: Magnolia, TX

Posted 13 September 2020 - 09:00 AM

Stumbled across this FC-50 for sale. Battleship grey with fogged non-MC objective.  4 digit serial number, apparently made in early 1986 (pre October MC change) or 1962. 
 

975FC589-F465-4350-9D40-F4F7B4144CB6.jpeg
 


  • Scott99, Terra Nova, Bomber Bob and 1 other like this

#69 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,114
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 13 September 2020 - 09:23 AM

Stumbled across this FC-50 for sale. Battleship grey with fogged non-MC objective.  4 digit serial number, apparently made in early 1986 (pre October MC change) or 1962. 
 

attachicon.gif975FC589-F465-4350-9D40-F4F7B4144CB6.jpeg
 

I think we can pretty safely assume it’s (not) 1962. :lol:


  • Esso2112 and Marcus Roman like this

#70 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,114
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 13 September 2020 - 10:12 AM

My wonderful FC-76, like my FC-60 also appears to be 1997 (S97035). This is the most optically perfect instrument I have ever owned.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5A2C5791-A2FA-4056-A223-6F8F6EC295A2.jpeg

Edited by Terra Nova, 13 September 2020 - 10:13 AM.

  • Scott99, Esso2112 and Marcus Roman like this

#71 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 17,969
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, USA

Posted 13 September 2020 - 11:13 AM

FC-50 was introduced in 1981, so if the 1st / 4 digits is the Year, there should be some 1nnn, 2nnn, 3nnn, 4nnn serial numbers...  Anybody own an FC-50 with a SN that low?  Or, any pix of FC-50 labels out there that start at 1, 2, 3, or 4??



#72 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 17,969
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, USA

Posted 13 September 2020 - 12:30 PM

Interesting...

 

On the Tak Japan time line, the year entries are displayed:   YYYY Snn, as in 1988 S63.  The S refers to Showa (Emperor Hirohito's reign), with an anniversary on our calendar of December 25th.  Showa 64 would have marked 1989 on our calendar, but the Emperor died on January 7, 1989, which ended the Showa Era...

 

Brian @ LS&S stated that the FC-50 line began with SN 8101; and, that someone else at LS&S either owned SN 8202, or had seen it at a gathering...

 

What I'd like to know:  On the labels, did Tak use the Showa Year for domestic models, and the Gregorian Calendar on models intended for export?  Since the SNs were mainly for inventory control, was Tak consistent in using the SY or GC exclusively?  (Brian did joke that Tak Owners are a lot more serious about SNs than Tak or its vendors -- except for tracking inventory, warranty issues, repairs, etc.)

 

I don't think Tak was consistent -- at least the way we'd prefer.  I think the SN scheme changed many times over the years, and (probably) varied by models / types.  I base some of this on what I know Royal Astro did:  They had runs of a particular model, so those SNs are sequential; BUT, they continued with the next SN, even if the scope was a different model or type -- again, the main concern was inventory, not date codes for future owners...  [Stephen (Stargoat) has done A LOT of research on the AOs, and can correlate SNs with years.]

 

Maybe by 1985 / 1986, Tak had sold enough FC-50s that it made sense to go with a 4/5 digit system, with the SN equaling Ynnn~n; or, production run Xnnn~n...

 

I do know that Brian was right about my FC-50:  It was re-painted.  And, the lens was replaced.  When?  Who knows.  Tak has lots of good info for owners, but it's not like calling Questar, where they can look up a serial number and tell you all about your Q.  (In my imagination, I see Jim taking down a Middle-Ages style leather-bound tome with bronze clasps that lock it shut, and making new / correcting old entries with a Quill.)


Edited by Bomber Bob, 13 September 2020 - 12:34 PM.

  • Marcus Roman likes this

#73 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 23,114
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Northern Kentucky

Posted 13 September 2020 - 01:13 PM

I don’t think the S necessarily refers to a Showa date based on the emperor’s reign (Hirohito, b. April 1901 – d. 7 January 1989, ascended to Emperor 25 December 1926.) Case in point, my FC-60’s serial number is 97045, while my FC-76 has a serial number S97035. Both look identical in color and basic construction and I assume that both were made in 1997. (If the S97 were a Showa-type date, it would indicate that it was built in 2022 which of course is impossible without Doc Brown’s DeLorean.) I initially thought the S simply stood for Serial Number when I first got the FC-76. (That was a year or two prior to when I got the FC-60.) And quite frankly, I didn’t give it any thought that one had an S and the other did not, until today. I wonder what that is about, (the S on one, not on the other, and both having similar five-digit numbers)? And is my assumption that they were both built in 1997 even correct? The whole serial number thing becomes more and more baffling the more one looks into it. However JW, were it not for the knowledge that the color-change took place in 1988, and were it not for my initial comment that your green trimmed FC-50 should have been grey-trimmed if it was indeed made in 1984 (which I now accept), we might not have ever known that it had been re-painted and did in fact start out its life with grey trim.


Edited by Terra Nova, 13 September 2020 - 01:17 PM.

  • Marcus Roman likes this

#74 Esso2112

Esso2112

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,184
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2017
  • Loc: Magnolia, TX

Posted 13 September 2020 - 03:35 PM

To add to the general SN discussion, Here is a list of the Taks I have owned over the years and their SN as well as the color of the trim.  

TS-65 (65 x 1000) Black trim.  SN 70070

TS-65P (65 x 500) Black Trim  SN 76009
FC-50 Metallic Grey trim.         SN 82063
FC-76 Grey trim.                      SN 84019

FCT-100 Lime Green trim.       SN 87035

FCT-76 Lime Green trim.         SN ?
FCT-125 Lime Green trim.       SN 9002

FC-76 Lime Green (parts scope) SN 90423

Mewlon 210 lime green trim.    SN 08047
FS-128 Lime green & blue trim SN 03031
FS-152 Lime green & blue trim SN 03xxx 

FSQ-85 Lime green trim.          SN 12012

All of my current & past Taks have had a 5 digit serial number except the FCT-125, which is a 4 digit and is either a 1989 or 1990 and doesn’t help clarify anything. 
 

However, several have a 5 digit serial number with numbers less than 99 and have a 0 in between the year and the number. 
 


  • Bomber Bob likes this

#75 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 17,969
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, USA

Posted 13 September 2020 - 03:58 PM

Barring an explanation from Takahashi, gathering as many Tak scopes with serial numbers into a spreadsheet -- like the Registry -- would help make sense of their system...


  • Terra Nova and Esso2112 like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics