27 replies to this topic

[F.Meiresonne]

Hello everyone,

Who has experience with Epic eyepieces from Orion? They are now available in Belgium too.Like the Lv's from Vixen then also have 20 mm eyerelief.I am considering buying one(a 5.1mm) but I am wondering if the are of the same quality as the Lv's.The price is a lot less compared to the Lv's!

Freddy

[erik]

the epics have been covered numerous times in the equipment threads, but at the risk of being redundant, i'll share my opinion of them again. i don't find them very useful due to the blacking out problem they have. while some people don't find it annoying, to me the epics (and celestron's x-cel?) are the worst offenders out there when it comes to that problem. some people have gotten around it by using a rubber eyeguard, but i find the epic eyepieces to be utterly useless because of the kidney beaning effect. the performance other than that is okay, i just think you're MUCH better off buying plossls in the longer lengths and ultrascopics or ultimas in the shorter lengths for better eye relief than plossls. or use a plossl and a barlow. some may disagree, but i'd say to stay away from the epics!

[jwaldo]

The Epics beat the pants off my plossls. They have a wider FOV, better edge sharpness, better contrast, and great color correction. The blacking out thing is only a problem for me when I hold my eye too close, or use a barlow. It's well worth the extra price, I'm replacing my most often used focal lengths with Epics.

[Tim2723]

Gotta love these forums! Couldn't ask for two more different opinions. That's what it's all about, getting the whole story from all sides! Only in America!

I recommend going for the 5mm Vixen Lanthanum (not the wide angle). Had mine for a year now and haven't been disapointed once. Love that long ER!

[RGM]

I have 2 Epics. All long eye relief eyepieces do not work if your eye is too close. High end models like Pentax and Radian have built in eye guards that keep your eye 20mm away. If you purchase from Orion, just buy some of their bellow style eyeguards along with the eyepieces. That is what I did. With this combination you have a great eyepiece for the money. I have never had them blackout and use them all the time for public viewing.

[erik]

yes, all long eye relief ep's have blacking out problems, but the epics are far worse than others with longer eye relief. my 2" 40mm optiluxe blacks out a little bit if i put my eye too close, but it's nothing compared to the epic's, which continually black out unless your eye is perfectly still at the exact "sweet spot" in front of the ep. i haven't tried every focal length in the epic series, but the ones i have tried all exhibited the same problem. and i disagree vehemently that they're crisper than plossls. the exact opposite is true for me. the highlight plossls blow them away in edge sharpness and brightness. and if you try an orion ultrascopic, you'll probably forget about the epics, because the ultrascopics are the best planetary ep's you can buy for a sharp detailed image. DEFINITELY try the epics out before you waste your money on them, if you don't find the blacking out to be as annoying as i do, great! but for $20 more you can get the ultrascopic, which is totally flawless. just my opinion....

[F.Meiresonne]

Yes , in fact its true ,my Lv 15 mm blacks out sometimes, but if find it not a big issue.My LV zoom is better for that case. However, my 25 mm Plossl in combination with my barlow lens blacks out too and in this case i find it obstrusive.So the black out syndrome should therefore not be ignored.Question : do short focal length blackens out more easily?In fact in my case it comes to this : should i buy the LV 5 mm or is the Epic 5mm as good????

Freddy

[erik]

buy the 5mm ultrascopic...

[jwaldo]

Hmm thats strange I've never had those problems with my epics or my X-cels (identical celestron EP) It might be worse with the Epics than with the X-cels, so I'll check tonite. The Lanthanums are just out of my price range

[F.Meiresonne]

Eric,

Well , i am going to check it out.I believe the local dealer could sent me a ultrascopic and an epic. I want to try them for meself and see how good each one of them performs.
Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Clear skies

freddy

[erik]

freddy, cool, i believe when you compare them side by side, you'll be pretty impressed with the ultrascopic. they're my favorite planetary eyepieces and even eyepiece snobs with $620 naglers and such usually like them....

[F.Meiresonne]

Erik,

Monday the ultrascopic and the epic will arrive from a local dealer here in Belgium. Unfortunately the weather forecast is bad for the next couple of days.As soon as the weather clears up , this forum will be notified of my findings...
The Ultrascopic is rather expensive here in Belgium. The 5 mm costs 135 euro ,that is 163,79 dollars.For that amount of money i can buy me an LV 5mm , it's even 2 euro cheaper!

Clear skies,

[F.Meiresonne]

Ultrascopic or Epic : first impressions

Well today they arrived! The Epic is a rather big eyepiece compared to the Ultrascopic.It is well made seems to have nice coatings( i could not detect any white reflections when i flashlighted it).The ultrascopic is much smaller and seems to have excellent coatings, the colour reflections are much darker compared to the Epic eyepiece.
So I could not wait anymore and putted first the Epic and then the Ultrascopic in the focuser and took al look in broad daylight through the window and caught a tree.(bad idea i know, but still...)
And yes Erik, everything you told me about the Epic is true. It has an incredible blacking out problem!!!!It is almost impossible to keep your eye at the right spot!Although the view is not bad if you can get your eye right and keep it right but then again you cannot hold your eye at the right spot so the kidney bean is very ,very unpleasant indeed.
The Ultrascopic does not have that problem at all, the field of view is smaller though then the Epic but the view of the tree even through the windows appeared sharper and had more contrast. However the eyerelief was a bit short (but then again it is a 5mm piece).I think it has about the same eye relief as a simple plössl 10 mm I own.
So the next test will be on the stars when the weather clears up, but the choice i think is allready too obvious...

Clear skies everyone

[erik]

freddy, hopefully you'll have better luck with the epics at night, the blackout is especially bad for daytime viewing. at night it's only *almost* unbearable. i'm also very impressed with the coatings on the ultrascopics. even though the epics are supposedly fully multi coated like the ultrascopics, even just looking at the ep's side by side during the day, it's obvious that the ultrascopics have less reflections that the epics. good luck with both ep's, some people like the epics, so maybe you won't find the blackout so bothersome at night...

[F.Meiresonne]

Epic 5.1 mm or Ultracopic 5 mm : final verdict

Well after splitting the double double and looking intensively at M13 as DSO i'll keep the Ultrascopic.It is a real winner.

why?
The ultrascopic gives sharper views - gives far more better contrast - i could not detect any ghosting or flares - eye relief is shorter then an LV of course, but is still quite enough. Yesterday i had the best view of M13 if ever had in my life at 250x in my 10 inch!
I could detect background stars around the double double i could not or bearly see in the Epic. My Kellner 6.3 ,was better for that matter compared to the Epic 5.1 mm.
The Epic has - a serious black out problem wich is bothersome although at nights is it not so bad as at daytime, that much is true.I shows also ghosting.I is not as sharp as the Ultrascopic nor as I descent 7.5 mm Plössl i own.
I has however a generous field of view and of course 20 mm eye relief. I could be an useful in longer focal lengths, say 25 or 30 mm to search for objects and perhaps the black-out syndrome is less in longer focal lengths so it would be not so bothersome then. So in that case perhaps you'll have a descent eyepiece for the money,...i think ... i am not quite sure yet...


So exit Epic...

[Mogster]

How long is the eye relief on the Ultrascopics/Ultima's?

I thought it was still pretty short, 5mm or less for the lower focal lengths. I can't really find it quoted anywhere.

Edit.................

5mm - er= 4mm
7.5mm - er= 5mm
10mm - er= 7mm

Sounds a bit cornea grazing

[F.Meiresonne]

Which focal lenghts did you try?

[F.Meiresonne]

For the 5mm is more then that because it has a barlowlens inside , ;)so a 5mm ultrascopic is in fact a 10 mm that is barlowed.The eyerelief is better then a 7,5mm Plossl i own a slighty less then a 10 mm Plössl, i think it is arround a good 8 mm. I really could not cope with a piece that has only 4 mm eye relief, it is much too hard to observe for longer periods of time through such an ep for me. That's why i originaly liked the Lv's so much. In fact i still do but the next ep purchase will probably an ultrascopic again.

[LarryinCA]

For a lot of info on eypiece specs take a look at Mike's Eyepiece Database in the Files section of the Yahoo Orion Telescopes forum.

[LarryinCA]

For a lot of info on eyepiece specs, take a look at Mike's Eyepiece Database in the Files section of the Yahoo Orion Telescopes forum.

[F.Meiresonne]

Larry, do you have an exact link for that?

[Mogster]

I got the eyerelief stats off the Celestron Ultima web page. I've no idea how accurate they are.

[LarryinCA]

Freddy,
Here's the link, http://groups.yahoo....lescopes/files/

[EdZ]

The Celestron Ultima 5mm has no barlow and has extremely short eye relief, probably about 4mm. The 7.5 Ultima is much more comfortable to use, more comfortable than a 7mm UO ortho. The 7mm UO may provide a clearer view.

edz