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Suggestions for next target (stock DSLR)

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#1 polslinux

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 04:46 AM

Hello all,

this weekend I'll be in a Bortle 4 location (SQM 21.53) in northern Italy (south tyrol).

I'll hopefully have 2 clear nights to (partially) dedicate to a target I still have to choose.

 

Here's some info:

- 60-90 minutes per night of light frames (so, hopefully, a total of 120-180 minutes of integration)

- Nikon d7500 (DX) stock

- Tamron 150-600 G2

- iOptron SkyGuider Pro

- no guiding, therefore < 350mm for best results

 

What would be the best target for my setup? I looked in Stellarium, and it seems that the following could be viable targets:

  • NGC7000 (@ 150mm)
  • IC1805 + IC1848 (@ 200mm)
  • Cygnus Loop (@200mm)

My doubts are:

  • is NGC7000 a good target for a stock DSLR? And would, in the worst case, 90 minutes be enough to get a decent result?
  • IC1805 + IC1848 I guess those are a no go for a stock DSLR, even if I would manage to get a full 180 minutes integration, right?
  • Cygnus Loop: again, for a stock DSLR pointing to such a faint object, 180 minutes would be not much, right?

Do you have any other target I could shoot (and get a decent result) with the specs above?

 

Thank you waytogo.gif



#2 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 06:42 AM

NGC 7000 surely doable with a stock DSLR.

 

I did 100 subs 60 sec with 76 mm unguided with a descent result imo

 

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#3 chanrobi

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:22 AM

I did NGC 7000 and Veil with my stock canon. Very happy with the results, I think I did no more than 1.5 hours on each target and it came out very nicely.

 

I would recommend...



#4 mmalik

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:24 AM

Suggestions for next target (stock DSLR)

Try anything (may be Andromeda) but DSO is really NOT worth the effort with stock. Why spin wheels when you have no traction? Regards


Edited by mmalik, 16 September 2020 - 08:38 AM.


#5 mmalik

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:38 AM

I did 100 subs 60 sec with 76 mm unguided with a descent result imo

 

I did no more than 1.5 hours on each target and it came out very nicely

 

All good, but a modded low light sensitive MILC can get much better results than that in 1 exposure. Following single exposure at 3min taken long ago; now I can get much better results at 30sec with bit faster scope and cooled (...and with NO noise). Latest LLS MILC (2020) will be many fold better modified/cooled. Regards

 

 

Note: Click for details...

 

post-205769-0-01779100-1430349818_thumb.


Edited by mmalik, 16 September 2020 - 08:43 AM.


#6 17.5Dob

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 09:07 PM

All good, but a modded low light sensitive MILC can get much better results than that in 1 exposure. Following single exposure at 3min taken long ago; now I can get much better results at 30sec with bit faster scope and cooled (...and with NO noise). Latest LLS MILC (2020) will be many fold better modified/cooled. Regards

And a cooled 294 is even better and 1/4 the price...

Heck, my $250 Nikon D5300a did THIS in 1 minute at ISO 200 / f6.5


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#7 17.5Dob

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 09:17 PM

Hello all,

this weekend I'll be in a Bortle 4 location (SQM 21.53) in northern Italy (south tyrol).

I'll hopefully have 2 clear nights to (partially) dedicate to a target I still have to choose.

 

Here's some info:

- 60-90 minutes per night of light frames (so, hopefully, a total of 120-180 minutes of integration)

- Nikon d7500 (DX) stock

- Tamron 150-600 G2

- iOptron SkyGuider Pro

- no guiding, therefore < 350mm for best results

 

What would be the best target for my setup? I looked in Stellarium, and it seems that the following could be viable targets:

  • NGC7000 (@ 150mm)
  • IC1805 + IC1848 (@ 200mm)
  • Cygnus Loop (@200mm)

My doubts are:

  • is NGC7000 a good target for a stock DSLR? And would, in the worst case, 90 minutes be enough to get a decent result?
  • IC1805 + IC1848 I guess those are a no go for a stock DSLR, even if I would manage to get a full 180 minutes integration, right?
  • Cygnus Loop: again, for a stock DSLR pointing to such a faint object, 180 minutes would be not much, right?

Do you have any other target I could shoot (and get a decent result) with the specs above?

 

Thank you waytogo.gif

Arguably, the brightest nebula in Cygnus are the huge cluster centered around Sadr...My old stock camera did much better on them, than NGC 7000..

The Veil Nebula is really bright in Oiii, which shows up well on a stock cam..the Ha is a lot fainter...

I've only shot the Heart and Soul with my modded cam, and knowing Nikon's poor stock Ha performance, that might be a stretch


Edited by 17.5Dob, 17 September 2020 - 09:21 PM.


#8 JDShoots

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 11:54 PM

You still need another run at M31 I thought.   But another to consider is M33.  



#9 chanrobi

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 12:27 AM

Try anything (may be Andromeda) but DSO is really NOT worth the effort with stock. Why spin wheels when you have no traction? Regards

100% false.

 

https://stargazerslo...th-under-800mm/

 

https://clarkvision....to-1/index.html

 

Pretty much all of rogers images are on stock dslr


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#10 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 02:02 AM

I did NGC 7000 and Veil with my stock canon. Very happy with the results, I think I did no more than 1.5 hours on each target and it came out very nicely.

 

I would recommend...

The veil? doable yes? What equipment did you use? Did you use filters? You bring me on to ideasgrin.gif



#11 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 02:03 AM

100% false.

 

https://stargazerslo...th-under-800mm/

 

https://clarkvision....to-1/index.html

 

Pretty much all of rogers images are on stock dslr

+1



#12 BQ Octantis

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 05:15 AM

Hi Polslinux,

 

For good results with a stock DSLR, you need lots of time or a very fast lens. And my concern is that your lens is an f/5-6.3.

 

At 100% sensor scale, I get excellent results from my stock Canon at f/2.8 with 0.5-1.0 hours on very bright DSOs (e.g., the Carina Nebula and the LMC), but I need 2-3 hours on dimmer DSOs like the ones you're considering.

 

Here are the equivalent times for f/2.8, f/5.0, and f/6.3 (seconds, minutes, hours, or any fixed interval):

 

Screen Shot 2020-09-18 at 7.37.19 PM.png

 

So I would recommend either a much faster lens (if you own one) or getting up early to shoot a brighter target (like M31). At the very least, shoot at f/5!

 

BQ


Edited by BQ Octantis, 18 September 2020 - 05:19 AM.


#13 polslinux

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 11:30 AM

Thank you all guys!
I'll see what I can do, but considering how things are going right now, it may be cloudy all nights, let's see!

@BQ: nope, I don't own any fast lens >100mm :( I am thinking on how to upgrade my gear, but this will be for another post here on CN (once I'll have figure it out what I really want :))

#14 polslinux

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 11:38 AM

100% false.

 

https://stargazerslo...th-under-800mm/

 

https://clarkvision....to-1/index.html

 

Pretty much all of rogers images are on stock dslr

 

Very interesting. Is it written somewhere where these images where taken? In terms of Bortle or SQM!



#15 chanrobi

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 05:50 PM

The veil? doable yes? What equipment did you use? Did you use filters? You bring me on to ideasgrin.gif

I'm a super budget. Could barely afford the below:

 

Ioptron Skytracker (OG version)

Eos M (stock)

Samyang 135 f/2

 

crappy low res pull from my IG, bortle 2/3 site about an hour, maybe hour and a half of integration tops

 

hEeEoCi.jpg


Edited by chanrobi, 18 September 2020 - 05:51 PM.


#16 BQ Octantis

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 06:22 PM

To be fair, I've been able to get workable data with just 30 minutes at f/6—but with 2.5 minute guided subs and the target high in the sky:

 

Celestron 750mm f/6, 30 minutes:

get.jpg?insecure

 

But the tradeoff with lens speed (or session duration) is the maximum image scale before noise is apparent—and with 30 minutes at f/6, I couldn't go over 50% scale. To scale by 2×, I'd need 4× the integration time—so for usable data at 100% scale at f/6, I'd need at least 2 hours of data.

 

For more limited data, Roger Clark has a good workflow for minimalist stacks with RawTherapee:

 

https://clarkvision....th-rawtherapee/

 

I've used it to get reasonable results with a single 2-minute sub at f/3.8—limited to 30% scale:

 

Canon 200mm f/2.8L II @ f/3.8, 120 seconds (Click for full size.)

post-273658-0-85257600-1597317642.jpg

 

Unfortunately, the workflow limits the max usable size (I haven't derived a number, but probably <50-75%), so it's not a good substitute for session duration or aperture speed to get to ≥100% scale.

 

Since you have a less-noisy Nikon, plus NGC7000 is high in the sky for you, it's certainly worth a shot with your setup. At the very least, you'll learn about its limits to help you decide what to do next.

 

Cheers,

 

BQ

 

 

P.S. The value of a dark sky is its lack of light domes and harsh gradients. Some of my best work is at 50mm f/2.8 near zenith in a Bortle 3 sky:

 

Canon 50mm f/1.8 @ f/2.8, 20-30 minutes per panel

get.jpg?insecure

 

And in Bortle 1, ultra wide angle is very forgiving—even at slower focal ratios:

 

Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 8mm f/4.5, 1 hour

get.jpg?insecure


Edited by BQ Octantis, 18 September 2020 - 08:14 PM.


#17 Teddythefinger

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 07:11 PM

BQ, after the swan, what target is that other one?

#18 BQ Octantis

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 07:35 PM



BQ, after the swan, what target is that other one?


NGC 3372, The Great Nebula in Carina:

 

66 min @ f2.8 + 76 min @ f/3.8:

get.jpg?insecure

 

BQ




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