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#26 tel65

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 11:35 AM

Seattle Scot. Would you say that the ri 2 gives a good a picture as the zwo 385? I do like the idea of that package as it is an all in one solution. But I was impressed with the YouTube video on this post too. Both are similar in price here in the U.K.

#27 GazingOli

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 12:24 PM

you cannot compare the RI with a CMOS cam / notebook solution. It might be easier to handle but it is a 0.3 megpix display and not as versatile. It might be a good solution if you are not familiar with computers / software.

 

CS.Oli



#28 tel65

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 12:29 PM

I’m pretty good with computers and technology. It’s just I’m not very good with software. Looking at that software there are too many settings to look at. I’m more onto software that is almost automatic as to what you want to do.
Do you know if there is a better camera for that package these days?

#29 GazingOli

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 12:40 PM

there are... ATIK offers a package called Infinity and ZWO also offers a software called ASI Studio with ASI live which is said to be easier to handle. I think you can download it for free but you need a ZWO camera to really try it out. More info at

https://astronomy-im...t-bring-us.html

 

CS.Oli

 

edit

one point maybe you should be aware of: observing celestrial objects is not like turning a tv set on ... there is a steep learning curve when getting into EAA, even steeper when heading for astrophotography. Tryinig to easy things too much means to limit yourself to a small number of easy accessible celestrial objects.


Edited by GazingOli, 16 September 2020 - 12:45 PM.


#30 tel65

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 12:54 PM

Thank you Oli. Your right in the learning curve, but thanks to people like you I’m very slowly getting ya grips with it. I’m not too interested in doing fantastic photos, I’m more interested in seeing, learning and maybe taking the occasional snapshot just to show a few of my friends what I’m seeing. I’m definitely not clever enough to do anything like this professionally. I’m really enjoying learning about the different aspects of viewing the cosmos though. And I really appreciate people like yourself giving me a helping hand.

#31 GazingOli

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 01:18 PM

 I’m not too interested in doing fantastic photos, I’m more interested in seeing, learning and maybe taking the occasional snapshot just to show a few of my friends what I’m seeing.

that is exactly what we are doing here... the APs is a different forum smile.gif

 

this is (my) EAA:

https://www.cloudyni...58-m-16-detail/

 

and this is AP:

https://www.nasa.gov...of_creation.jpg

 

But there is a variety of ways you can go.

 

With an eVscope for example you are fully automatic and no complicated settings, but what you will get is about this:

http://www.waloszek....0823-202659.jpg

 

I do not know about what to expect from the RI... maybe you can find out - and then choose what you think is the best way for you.

 

CS.Oli


Edited by GazingOli, 16 September 2020 - 01:24 PM.


#32 Forward Scatter

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 01:23 PM

Ya'know....

Have you considered remotely imaging with Slooh? During boring meetings I would be imaging from scopes on the opposite side of the world. No one was the wiser!

 

Cheers


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#33 garyhawkins

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 02:31 PM

The software will take some getting us to.  Start with Sharpcap only if using a dedicated ZWO or similar, or SharpCap/Backyardxxx if using a Canon or Nikon DSLR - do mount control via the hand controller.  Once your comfortable, add CPWI for mount control.  Then after you have that down, add Cartes de Ceil and the ASCOM drivers necessary to interface with CPWI.

 

As for hardware, your 5SE is perfect for EAA - I love using a very similar C6 SCT.  Just purchase a Celestron x0.63 focal reducer, they come on CN for about $100, or new they're about $150.  Rather than the 385MC start with the 224MC.  That's was my first ZWO camera, and after I upgraded to the 533MC, I use the 224MC for an efinder.

 

The forum is great for advice.  Also, participate in one of the EAA livestreams - it's a great way to learn more about how people use hardware/software, etc.  and a good place to ask questions.

 

CS Gary

 

Thank you Gary. I’ve now watched all of the video. I was really impressed with what you can do. However I did find the software a bit over my head. With software I like things to be very very simple. The 385 camera here is around £330. The same sort of price I’d be paying for some decent optics. Having read my replies so far it’s put me in a position where I either buy a camera set up or buy some optics. I b quite like the camera idea because it will save me time fiddling about trying to focus. But at the same time I’d like to be learning about how to use the scope properly. I really appreciate people taking the time out to give me advice.


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#34 jprideaux

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 03:57 PM

If you don't want the complexity of putting your own system together and the $4000 price-tag of the Stellina is too much, and if you don't want the $3000 evScope, Vaonis (who makes the Stellina) is announcing on Oct 1st a new smaller product that they will use Kickstarter to raise money for molds and tooling for their manufacturing run.  This means that the actual manufacture will then be some months away.  They claim they have it all figured out,  Just need to do the manufacturing run.  

 

https://vaonis.com/s...-october-1-2020

 

We won't know the details for another 2 weeks.  It should cost less than the Stellina.  I don't know how much less.

 

Just another option.



#35 Terrybythe sea

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 04:06 PM

Thank you John. I’ve just had a quick look at it. It’s around the same price as just the starsense without the WiFi portal.

 

That's exactly why I bought mine.

 

But, is it possible to auto align with it and a camera ?

 

ZWO says you must first do a one-star alignment. I haven't tried it myself yet (bad back, cloudy nights, etc), but I'm guessing just a rough alignment will suffice, and then the ASIAir will take it from there through plate solving.

 

(The reason for that guess is that the SkySafari app says that objects must be within 10º for it to align to them, and 10º is a pretty big margin of error in astronomical terms. So I'm thinking the ASIAir is probably similar, you just have to let it know roughly where in the sky it's looking so that it can begin to plate solve).

 

So you may be able to get by by just roughly centring a star in a broken red dot, but you'd definitely have to do that much.  A StarSense, otoh, can do it all automatically after a one-time alignment procedure.


Edited by Terrybythe sea, 16 September 2020 - 04:06 PM.


#36 tel65

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 09:25 PM

Thank you all for the replies, the evscope is way out of my price league, and having watched the promotional videos I was impressed. But. Then I can across this
https://youtu.be/tyG9kbJo2sg
Whoever that guy is, he really put things in a very simple way for me to understand a few things.
All I have at the moment is the NexStar 5se, a 25mm Plössl and a skywatcher 8-24 zoom. The starsense auto align and WiFi portal we’re going to be given me as a present and have not been bought yet. I was going to buy a decent set of optics for around £300. But having seen what you guys can do has swung my mind into going the digital way and being able to view ( ideally with an iPad Pro or my phone iPhone X ) without having to stay outside. That way I’ll be able to get the wife more interested so she’ll let me spend more money on a better scope later.lol. So, assuming all I have at the moment is the scope and mount what would be the advice to go for so that “1” the scope will auto align. “2” it will have a WiFi connection. “3” it will give me a nice clear image of the planets and a few other things. “4” I can view on an iPad or phone.
Here in the U.K. the starsense and WiFi portal are approx £300 = $388 and the eyepieces are about the same. so a budget of about £600-£700 would be what I’d be proposing to spend. Which to be honest is double the amount I paid for the scope. Many thanks in advance to all those who take the time to reply.
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#37 tel65

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 09:34 PM

I forgot to mention. The only reason I chose the starsense and WiFi portal I’d because at least I know for sure that they are compatible with the scope.

#38 garyhawkins

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 10:01 AM

Hi Tel65,

 

A NextStar 5SE is the perfect place to start your EAA journey - I have used a C6 SCT extensively and been really impressed.  There's another guy on the forum (sadly I could not find the thread) who uses a C5 or 5SE and loves it.  

 

If I can make a suggestion.  I would not get the StarSense.  Yes, it deals with alignment, but alignment is straightforward and takes just 10 mins or so at the beginning of a session, particularly with a wider FOV.  Buy the 0.63 focal reducer mentioned earlier, camera, WiFi adapter (if you want to work remotely) and then just install SharpCap and CPWI.

 

You'll stay within your budget and be very pleased.  One reason I don't use a RASA or triplet is since I do public outreach I want to show people a budget setup (<$1000-1200) can be put together that produces brilliant results.

 

CS Gary

 

 

Thank you all for the replies, the evscope is way out of my price league, and having watched the promotional videos I was impressed. But. Then I can across this
https://youtu.be/tyG9kbJo2sg
Whoever that guy is, he really put things in a very simple way for me to understand a few things.
All I have at the moment is the NexStar 5se, a 25mm Plössl and a skywatcher 8-24 zoom. The starsense auto align and WiFi portal we’re going to be given me as a present and have not been bought yet. I was going to buy a decent set of optics for around £300. But having seen what you guys can do has swung my mind into going the digital way and being able to view ( ideally with an iPad Pro or my phone iPhone X ) without having to stay outside. That way I’ll be able to get the wife more interested so she’ll let me spend more money on a better scope later.lol. So, assuming all I have at the moment is the scope and mount what would be the advice to go for so that “1” the scope will auto align. “2” it will have a WiFi connection. “3” it will give me a nice clear image of the planets and a few other things. “4” I can view on an iPad or phone.
Here in the U.K. the starsense and WiFi portal are approx £300 = $388 and the eyepieces are about the same. so a budget of about £600-£700 would be what I’d be proposing to spend. Which to be honest is double the amount I paid for the scope. Many thanks in advance to all those who take the time to reply.


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#39 tel65

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 10:55 AM

Thank you Gary. I was researching the asiair pro you mentioned in an earlier reply to me. It would appear that I would be able to auto align by using that and the camera. But not 100% sure about that. I’m very keen on your idea it just the software that kinda overwhelms me a bit. I’m a very quick learner in most things but with software I’ve had in the past I have to be physically shown how to use it a few times before I get used to it. But to be honest, that’s the only thing that’s putting me off buying the asiair and camera. It would also work out a lot cheaper taking your advice. I like the idea of all those ports on the unit, saves a lot of wires trailing around. As for the camera would the 385 be ok? Or should I be thinking of the next one up? Another thing I was thinking was how long would it take an image to show clearly on an iPad ?

#40 garyhawkins

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 02:08 AM

Hi tel65,

 

I do not use the Asiair but I know others on the forum like it.  I use SharpCap, which is considerable cheaper but according to the Asiair folks has a steeper learning curve.  I can't comment on that but I did not find SharpCap particularly difficult to learn.  There are plenty of videos out there to walk you through SharpCap.  A 385MC would be great for EAA. Sharpcap runs on a PC. I image at 10 or 15secs, so the first image shows in that period, and typically a good image is on the screen after three stack, so 30 - 45sec.  

 

CS Gary


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#41 tel65

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 02:32 AM

Thank you Gary. Would there be a cheaper alternative to the 385 mc colour ? Also would I need the focal reducer straight away or could it wait a little while after I got the WiFi and camera.

#42 tel65

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 02:40 AM

I’ve also been looking at the Orion StarShoot all in one, but haven’t figured out if it’s suitable for the iPad or windows 10. I’ve read some good reviews about it. But from what I’ve read they say it’s up to Windows 8 and nothing about using it with an iPad.
Seems to me nothing is ever simple in life, whatever you buy there is always some add on that’s required lol

#43 jprideaux

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 03:47 AM

The Orion starshoot all in one has the following specs:

Best for imaging: Solar, lunar, planetary & Messier objects
Imaging sensor: Aptina Color CMOS MT9M034
Imaging sensor size: 1/3"
Pixel array: 1280 x 960 (1,228,800 total)
Pixel size: 3.75 x 3.75
Imaging chip: Single Shot Color
Video frame rate: Up to 200 fps
Autoguider capability: Yes
Exposure range: 0.00002s to 600s
A/D conversion: 8 bit
Thermoelectric cooling: No
IR filter: Yes
Mounting: 1.25" nozzle
USB connection: High-speed 2.0
Software compatibility: Windows 7/8/10
Binning: 1x1, 2x2
Weight (oz.): 2
Warranty: One year

The asi385 has the following specs:

Sensor: 1/2″ CMOS IMX385
Diagonal: 8.35mm
Resolution: 2.12Mega Pixels 1936×1096
Pixel Size: 3.75µm
Exposure Range: 32µs-2000s
ROI: Supported
ST4 Guider Port: Yes
Focus Distance to Sensor: 12.5mm
Shutter Type: Rolling Shutter
Protect window: AR coated window
Operating System Compatibility: Mac, Windows, Linux
Interface: USB3.0/USB2.0
Bit rate: 12bit output(12bit ADC)
Adaptor: 2″ / 1.25″ / M42X0.75
Dimension: φ62mm X 36mm
Weight: 120g or 4.2 ounces (without lens)
Working Temperature: -5°C—45°C
Storage Temperature: -20°C—60°C
Working Relative Humidity: 20%—80%
Storage Relative Humidity: 20%—95%

The asi385 is a better chip for deep sky objects. They have the same pixel size but the asi385 is a bit bigger (larger sensor, higher resolution) and the A/D has more bits which means more dynamic range between dark and light.

The software that comes with the starshoot all in one may not be good for EAA. It is probably just standard imaging software - not really optimized for EAA.
I would recommend for EAA using what others doing EAA are recommending.

if you want to use an iPad, your best bet would be to get the asiair (to handle the technical interaction with the camera) and then use the asiair app on your iPad for the interface to the asiair. Kind-of like a scaled-down but easier version of SharpCap.
The asiair only works with asi cameras.

if you want the least expensive good option, get the asi385 and use SharpCap with a PC laptop (not iPad or Apple) that you already have.

if you want to use an iPad, get the asi385 and asiair and use the asiair app on your iPad.

If you really want to get the starshoot all in one, find out from someone using SharpCap if SharpCap can select that camera. If so, then technically you could use it with that EAA software tool.
For whether the provided Orion imaging software can provide an EAA option, search a bit in the forums for the answer. Don’t assume that software will work for EAA.

Edited by jprideaux, 18 September 2020 - 04:08 AM.


#44 tel65

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 04:22 AM

Thank you so much for that very informative reply. Could you tell me if that camera would be any good for planets and deep space ? I’m on the understanding that I’ll need to buy a focal reducer but I’m hoping that can wait a little while. If I really need the reducer with the asiair pro and 385 camera then could you suggest a cheaper option for the camera.

#45 GazingOli

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 04:28 AM

Live-Stacking at f/10 is more difficult to handle than at f/6.3, to get an easy start the focal reducer is recommended.

 

You might also check which celestrial objects fit into your FOV with http://astronomy.tools/ or even better with Stellarium freeware. In Stellarium you can set up your equipment and simulate the FOV vision of thousands of celestrial objects.

 

CS.Oli


Edited by GazingOli, 18 September 2020 - 04:29 AM.


#46 tel65

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 04:33 AM

Cheers oli. I clicked on the link and then entered my postcode. It came up with a star map. I haven’t got a clue what I’m supposed to do with it.

#47 Rac19

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 05:02 AM

A point of clarification, if you are going to control the 'scope from indoors, you are by implication implementing EAA as you need to have a camera, with live-view, to see anythingsmile.gif. Having reached that point you are pretty much equipped for astrophotography (AP) too.

 

This is how I like to operate. It avoids exposure the cold, mosquitoes etc, and the need to squint through the eyepiece in awkward positions. In my case I have residual cataracts which make viewing through an eyepiece problematic. 

 

My setup involves a mini computer, outside, at the telescope (bolted to mount in fact) with camera/s connected to it and all software running on it. From indoors, the laptop is used to operate the mini PC remotely over WiFi. I use Windows RDP but VNC and the like can also be used.

 

It's not without cost but much less costly than Stellina and the likes. I see ASIAir mentioned above and it would be a cheaper option. The main attraction of a mini PC is choice of software available. I run CPWI, SharpCap or FireCapture, PHD guiding and ASI Suite at the moment and have run Cates du Ciel, APT etc in the past.



#48 tel65

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 05:46 AM

Thank you rac19. Having just bought the 5se and looking through eyepieces I found that I was squinting a lot and found things difficult to see, also fiddling about with focus, shake and most of all alignment. That’s why I was going to buy a decent set of eyepieces, starsense and portal. I never realised it could all be done by laptop or iPad until I came onto this forum. So my thoughts then changed about making those purchases and to look into Eaa. As I have previously said I’m not going to get into photography, all I want is for me and the wife to be able to see the solar system/ universe from the comfort of the sofa using the iPad or phone or if really necessary the laptop. It would be good if things were Nice and clear though.

#49 GazingOli

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 05:49 AM

Cheers oli. I clicked on the link and then entered my postcode. It came up with a star map. I haven’t got a clue what I’m supposed to do with it.

click on FOV calculator, then choose imaging mode. Now you can choose a celestrial object e.g. M51, now choose your scope and your camera and click on 'add to view'. Now you can choose another camera or reducer or whatever and add this, too. This way you can compare different options in your setup.

 

I made an example for your scope (click on the image to enlarge it):

 

astronomy.tools.jpg

 

In this example you can see the difference between the FOV without and with the focal reducer.

 

CS.Oli


Edited by GazingOli, 18 September 2020 - 05:58 AM.


#50 tel65

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 06:00 AM

Thanks Oli. Your a star. Forgive the pun. I’ve worked out how to use it now.


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