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Yongala books Mars in for opposition - V. nice seeing 50° to 47°

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#1 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:35 AM

lol.gif Well, we've just about booked Yongala in for the imaging around opposition if the skies are clear & half-promising: we imaged there a couple of nights ago where the seeing was no more than "possible" according to the forecasts, but turned out considerably better than anticipated from around culmination at 50° & down to about 47°...

 

We started with the ASI462MC & ADC intending to switch to the ASI290MM after a few captures with a freshly-adjusted ADC - but because the planet was starting to drop we only made 3 runs with the colour camera.

 

Re-setting the ADC it was apparent after that 3rd take that the seeing was starting to rise...not the norm in our experience after culmination & I did hesitate, thinking that one more capture with the 462MC would've been good to compare with the subsequent mono captures...

 

But I held firm, not knowing how the seeing might turn out to be for the next half hour or so & unscrewed the 462 from the nosepiece to swap in the 290MM - finding that I had unscrewed the front of the camera actual - exposing the sensor et al...a tad embarrassing! bigshock.gif

 

Still, we're nothing if not "can do" folks & I soon rectified the problem & had the mono cam in place. rofl2.gif

 

I won't rabbit on about these images, I think they are self-explanatory & reveal a fair wealth of detail...craters, including the prominent Schiaparelli & others can be seen in both the osc & mono outcomes - my only point I wish to emphasize is that the mono captures were taken in quite considerably better seeing which to our minds makes the 462's outcome more than meritorious. wink.gif

 

I prefer more restrained sizing personally but made pairs of comparisons at 120% & 160% capture scales for those who might like such...others like the mono filter images are 120% with "best single frames" at capture: interesting protrusions at around 3-4 o'clock on a few of the images also, & as I mentioned in someone else's thread I don't think the osc is a slouch when it comes to revealing clouds or haze.wink.gif

 

mars2020-09-13_ASI462MC&ASI290MMComparison@160%.png

 

mars2020-09-13_17-21_rgb_dpm@120%WEB.png

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:38 AM

Sorry about the haphazard sequence of images & apologies as they were done on Pattie's laptop which I find frustrating at the best of times. frown.gif

 

I prefer the smaller scales btw... wink.gif

 

mars2020-09-13_ASI462MC&ASI290MMComparison@120%.png

 

mars2020-09-13_18-12_rgb_dpm@120%WEB.png

 

 


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#3 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:42 AM

I should mention we're still away in the countryside...probably have to review some of these outcomes when we finally get home! lol.gif

 

mars2020-09-13_18-10to1814_r&g&b_dpm@120%.png

 

MarsBestFrameColour171423-130920.png


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#4 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:47 AM

Last of the Mars - I think! lol.gif

 

BestR-G-BFrames18-51to18-19_130920.png

 

A somewhat desultory inclusion of a couple of Jupiter images - in "boutique" scaling due to them not being good enough to post at a reasonable size...included for the record. grin.gif

 

j2020-09-13_10-26_rgb_dpm.png

 

 


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#5 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:49 AM

...if we had gotten going a half hour or so earlier we might've got something worthwhile with this night on Jove...the best feed was before we had even collimated & this was the first after collimation making us suspect it was much better earlier - that is if we hadn't been so tired from Mars that morning... lol.gif

 

j2020-09-14_10-32_rgb_dpm.png


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#6 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:54 AM

ps: I've forgotten to finish the ir610 & 742 images we took with the 290MM at the end of this session - I'll post them tomorrow. :)



#7 John Boudreau

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:08 AM

Great stuff Darryl! I'm enjoying the comparisons, and I'm sure you'll eventually get some consistent enough seeing to remove that as a variable.

 

One of the things I've noticed in recent years is that although OSC cams have closed the gap on monochrome cams, I still find it easier to focus the mono cams in part because the image displays so clean while checking focus in the individual RGB filters. This is especially noticeable in less than ideal seeing.

 

I still may eventually pick up an ASI462MC, but largely due to it's CH4 capabilities. It's blue channel appears to pick up too much red light for my tastes though, at least with Mars. I still haven't completely given up hope that a mono version of the 462 will eventually become available. Recently, Sony announced some new sensors with 2.74 micron pixels that will be available both color and mono, other particulars that may make for a good planetary camera remain to be seen.



#8 Foc

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:14 AM

More great images with subtle shading of Martian cloud and fine Jupiter images with more on these showy storms, and I love you way you contrast your compiled results with the "best single image".  Is the lessened detail in the Southern half due to dust or is it just a naturally less contrasty albedo region.  I remember seeing little there in the last two mornings on Mars on my unprocessed firecapture data but in my case just assumed it was seeing related as the seeing was not good..



#9 le geolois

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:14 AM

Hello
spectacular images! congratulations and big THANK YOU for the information provided.
alain



#10 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:34 AM

Thank you John, Ross & Alain! smile.gif

 

I agree about the focusing ease John...Ross, are you referring to the Hellas Basin in particular..?

 

Here's the ir610 image I mentioned - it was virtually finished so I thought I'd post it...Mars was really starting to drop for this & the ir742nm captures.

 

mars2020-09-13_18-35_ir_dpm.png


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#11 sunnyday

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:37 AM

they are all very nice , thanks .



#12 Foc

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:42 AM

With regard to my earlier comment I meant the general region to the west of Hellas but with a tilt of the computer screen I see that there is a lot more ground detail than I thought, particularly when I look at the initial 1290mm image.  



#13 Vega700

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 09:14 AM

Very nice Mars images Darryl, waytogo.gifwaytogo.gifwaytogo.gif I am biased towards the ASI 290MM, the 462 looks a bit greenish.



#14 KiwiRay

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 11:12 AM

Excellent, Darryl!  The ASI290MM Mars image is particularly nice, and holds up very well to enlargement in the first post.



#15 Tulloch

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 05:15 PM

Excellent work, incredible detail, and the comparisons between the colour and mono sensors is very interesting.

 

One question on the comparison, the 462 shows a greenish hue on the LHS rim and pole, while for the 290 it's more blue. Do you think this is an artifact of "colour leak" across the different filters in the 462 (the subject of another post), or a slightly different colour balance due to the mono frames needing to be stacked and combined manually. Or something else? 

 

Thanks, Andrew



#16 Tom Glenn

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 05:59 PM

Very lovely images, Darryl!  Well done.  



#17 sfugardi

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 06:45 PM

Mo, incredible image set! Top shelf stuff. Congrats on these and thanks for posting

 

Regards,

Steve



#18 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 06:50 PM

Thanks for the comment fellas - & the "Likes" also! smile.gif

 

@ Ross - it is frustrating processing on my laptop & transferring to Pattie's laptop, for starters the scale goes up considerably, but also her machine shows a much darker image until you get the screen angle just right - so it is hard to tell if you've got it right...confused1.gif

 

@ Andrew- I wouldn't make too much of that difference because apart from the previous comments to Ross there was a fair bit of manipulation to get some reasonably approximate colouration between the 2 images - & I think the greenish hue is a result of this. (I was tired, there was considerable adjusting trying to get "near enough" & it affected the rim more as well as the NP hood & clouds...)

 

perhaps I should have just left each as they turned out...or made the single colour image the original outcome - perhaps I will post one like that if I've saved it at the appropriated stage & don't need to go back to the start again when I post the ir742nm image later... lol.gif

 

But to reiterate what I've said before, I took Sam's offer up because I wanted to have an easy way to set the ADC & switch from this with a colour camera to the mono, for this opposition & any subsequent ones we might still be alive enough to image..! rofl2.gif

 

To that end we have found that an easy task (except for unscrewing the actual camera the other night! lol.gif ) & in the process sharpened up our ADC awareness & operation considerably.

 

I always prefer a mono camera, but with Mars getting low this ability improves the outcomes very significantly: surprisingly, one of the first things we've discovered is that re-setting the null-point to the horizontal more frequently has a significant effect on dispersion correction...a bit surprising, especially as our levelling setup gives a much more sensitive reading than those ADC's that just have a small bubble attached to the slip-ring.

 

Steadier seeing does assist the ADC operation markedly of course as it does all things, but with the 5 sets of r-g-b captures over about 35 minutes (not sure how many or how long - I'm on Pattie's laptop atm lol.gif ) we set it just prior to the first r-g-b & after the 2nd or 3rd set at the most with very palpable results...17 or 18 minutes probably at max.

 

Another interesting observation is that we enabled correction of one of the Jovian images at 80° - I was merely relocating the null-point to horizontal as an exercise & decided to see what adjusting the levers did...surprisingly a significant separation of the levers - a full gradation on the slip ring - gave clear correction in the FC tool but also in the onscreen image! tongue2.gif  (not that either were anything to write home about!)

 

At the least with all this...& as my thread title intimates, we'll quite likely make Yongala our camp at opposition if the weather there is appropriate...instead of Marla or further north should all the travel restrictions ease: according to my foggy brain & WinJUPOS, Mars will hit 52° at Yongala about 10 minutes past midnight on the 13th October.....more than high enough to get excellent images if the seeing cooperates .

 

After meeting a couple of the locals at Yongala this last time (we're at Moonta Bay now) we feel really welcome & now know there are more facilities than we originally thought...including the open part-time Globe Hotel, offering excellent meals on the 3 nights they are open! rofl2.gif

 

300+km as against 1100+km is a fair saving in travel & expenses also!!!


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#19 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 06:57 PM

well if i canot image anymore at least i can come here and see yur images Darryl. Very nice by the way. I think its pretty neat to see how the area around wedge of swiss cheese looks compared to my night of the dust storm the whole southern part of the planet looks so dark unless its because of your processing or is it just because your doing rgb and im using an mc cam?. those are insane images 



#20 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:43 PM

Thanks Joe! :)

 

Hey! - what are you doing up at this time..? I mean, it's 10am here now & we usually are up by now...usually! :lol:

 

You'd have to re-acquaint me with that Mars region - Slaba Emmentaler..? grin.gif

 

I was thinking I might have to lower my colours as far as Mars was concerned with it riding so high for you now - but with our new-found ability to switch from colour to mono after ADC adjustments it's given us new life for a sinking Mars...so we're still up for the fight! Jedi.gif lol.gif

 

For those confused with what I said in my post above, I was talking about the re-adjusting of the ADC bubble level of the ADC with the mono camera - just doing this without moving the levers showed image improvement with the mono camera after 2 or 3 capture sets.


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#21 Lacaille

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:27 PM

Thanks Darryl for the lovely images and technical details. Could you give some pointers on adjusting an ADC with RGB? I was kinda hoping that if you had it right in FC for an OSC, the same settings would work for RGB! Is that not right? (Btw I have a 462 and 290mm And was thinking to swop them around depending on seeing and clouds).

Edited by Lacaille, 16 September 2020 - 08:27 PM.


#22 HentySky

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:59 PM

I now see there is some hope at 50 degrees, I just haven't found it yet.  Great images Darryl.



#23 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 09:28 PM

Hi Mark & Brett - "yes" there sure is Brett - & the ADC makes it even more doable to the point where I don't think there's much of a problem at all if you get decent seeing...which for Mars doesn't necessarily have to be of the standard needed for (say) Jove! waytogo.gif

 

I think some of the images over the years where an ADC is employed have attested to this fact...although I'll have to confess that up until recently I wasn't so confident of the ADC's operational intricacies as I am now. wink.gif

 

Mark, that's what I do, set the ADC with the 462MC & swap it out for the 290MM, they're virtually parfocal cameras etc...I was a bit worried about affecting collimation with this approach but I don't think it does when they are tightened up...I use 2 pinch-screw fittings (compression band ones of course) where one is on the back end of the EFW & this holds the imaging train in toto...the other is at the very end & holds the camera with its nosepiece.

 

I opted for simply unscrewing the camera itself from the n/piece leaving the n/piece in the rear clamp & screwing the other (mono) cam in place onto the selfsame n/piece, but the mechanical/physical similarities of the 2 cams are not precisely identical - at least not for my 2...so some slight re-adjustment might be necessary in rotational aspects.

 

This means a slight adjustment in the clamp to get the h/controller operating precisely N-S & E-W but nothing I see in the image details onscreen indicates I'm upsetting the collimation & the dual rotational capabilities are necessary to both set the ADC null-point horizontal & to get that E-W & N-S operation of the h/controller.

 

I could use the Moonlite focuser's rotational capabilities to get some of this dual-movement, but it is limited because the hi-res stepper box hits the primary focuser knob at one point...

 

My main take-away is that we found re-setting the null-point to horizontal was the best approach to any ADC improvements over shorter timespans of "perhaps" up to half an hour or so, rather than necessitating actual lever adjustments.

 

That & ADC adjustments can be effective at whatever elevation, contrary to what we believed previously...although seeing could well influence this.

 

"Real men mightn't need a colour camera for accurate ADC initial adjustments" lol.gif but along with George I'm happy to be amongst the "non-real men" - & who knows, there might be some advantages in having such a clear view of correction outcomes, especially with 2 cameras both with the same pixel-sizing in the sensors?


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#24 Lacaille

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 10:16 PM

Thanks a lot Darryl- very reassuring. Sorry I must have missed the last para in your previous post!

#25 Kokatha man

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 10:59 PM

No worries Mark! smile.gif

 

As an addendum, I couldn't find the ASI462MC image at a stage where I could easily display the original colour outcome before I manipulated it to make the comparison that I mentioned to Andrew...but I could tweak the mono image lol.gif to get what I thought was a slightly better appearance at 150% of capture scale - within the limitations of the machines I'm using... wink.gif

 

Also the ir742nm image at 120% cap. scale. smile.gif

 

mars2020-09-13_18-12_rgb_dpm@150%.png

 

mars2020-09-13_18-56_ir_dpm.png


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