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First look at the orion nebula this morning

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#1 lalojamesliz

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:00 PM

Hey everyone, 

 

I've always seen the 3 bright stars in the sky that are lined up. Now I know they are called Mintaka, Alnilam and Alnitak bit I never knew that the orion nebula was right below them till today.

 

Well I was using my explore scientific 10" dob , my baader 8-24mm and barlow and was looking at the M42 this morning around 4:45am. I was happy to finally know what I have always just looked at but it looked just like a cloud.  

 

Is it possible to see any color from the nebula without going the camera route? I know the darker/clearer the sky the better but I don't always have that option especially right now with the California fires. 

 

I'm just starting so my equipment list is really short but it is growing.   Once I find a better spot ill look for spiral galaxies and other nebula 


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#2 ShaulaB

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:11 PM

Under 18 inches of aperture, don't expect to see any color in M42. Shades of gray will have to do for now. Look for the Trapezium star cluster in the nebula.

 

With galaxies, expect to see gray oval clouds. If everything is working right, you may see the dark dust lanes in M31 the Andromeda Galaxy.

 

The more you observe, the more "educated" your eyes will get at picking out details.


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#3 Barlowbill

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:25 PM

Since you are up at that hour, don't forget Mars and Venus.


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#4 lalojamesliz

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:33 PM

Under 18 inches of aperture, don't expect to see any color in M42. Shades of gray will have to do for now. Look for the Trapezium star cluster in the nebula.

 

With galaxies, expect to see gray oval clouds. If everything is working right, you may see the dark dust lanes in M31 the Andromeda Galaxy.

 

The more you observe, the more "educated" your eyes will get at picking out details.

 

Aww.... oh well. Thanks 



#5 KBHornblower

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:35 PM

The bright core of the nebula is very near our threshold of color vision.  Many observers report seeing pale green.  The pink on processed photos is from mixing deep red hydrogen alpha with the green stuff, and is below our visual threshold.



#6 lalojamesliz

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:44 PM

Since you are up at that hour, don't forget Mars and Venus.

 

I've looked at both but I can only see a red circle for Mars and a bright light for Venus.  I'm guessing I need filters. Its hard for me to find some because I read some people say don't bother and some people say the lower priced ones work and other say only bother with the best



#7 jiblet65

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 07:10 PM

Check out 31 Orionis next to Mintaka. 



#8 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 07:13 PM

Being able to perceive color in deep-sky objects depends upon many factors.  There have been many threads on this subject on Cloudy Nights over the years.  One of them appears at https://www.cloudyni...th#entry7632899

 

Under superb conditions at excellent dark sites, I've been able to see blue, green, and ruddy/brownish hues in M42 through large apertures. 

 

A number of high surface brightness planetary nebulae can exhibit blue, green, or aquamarine shades in relatively small apertures.

 



#9 NorthernlatAK

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 07:19 PM

I've seen color in m42 in my 8" dob twice, transparency was excellent on both occasions and seems to be a deciding factor. The inner nebula was greenish while the outer "wings" were a rusty-pink tone. Transparency is king when looking for color in objects. Just don't expect to see color most of the time. Most nebula are just a gray cloud to our eyes.

#10 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 07:22 PM

I've looked at both but I can only see a red circle for Mars and a bright light for Venus.  I'm guessing I need filters. Its hard for me to find some because I read some people say don't bother and some people say the lower priced ones work and other say only bother with the best

Mars requires fairly high magnification to dilute its increasing brightness as it nears opposition on October 13th.  My favorite traditional color filters are the Wratten #21 (orange) and #80A (blue) and the CCM30 (#30)(magenta), which is the most effective, IMO, but is difficult to obtain other than the Brandon version, which requires an adapter tube.

http://alpo-astronom...es/FILTERS1.HTM

There's very little to see when it comes to Venus other than its changing phase.  Detecting variations in its cloud cover is difficult.  



#11 lalojamesliz

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 08:35 PM

Mars requires fairly high magnification to dilute its increasing brightness as it nears opposition on October 13th.  My favorite traditional color filters are the Wratten #21 (orange) and #80A (blue) and the CCM30 (#30)(magenta), which is the most effective, IMO, but is difficult to obtain other than the Brandon version, which requires an adapter tube.

http://alpo-astronom...es/FILTERS1.HTM

There's very little to see when it comes to Venus other than its changing phase.  Detecting variations in its cloud cover is difficult.  

 

Thanks for the link. Good stuff 



#12 brentknight

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 09:03 PM

Congratulations on your discovery of M42...  See if you can spot the 6 stars in the Trapezium - a very nice challenge for the zoom.  If you get the chance, try a good UHC filter on it too - there is a lot to see here! 

 

I've looked at both but I can only see a red circle for Mars and a bright light for Venus.  I'm guessing I need filters. Its hard for me to find some because I read some people say don't bother and some people say the lower priced ones work and other say only bother with the best

With your 10" Dob, your view should benefit from good filters on the planets.  Probably not so much on Venus as Dave mentioned, but on Mars for sure.  For a non-traditional filter that does not radically modify the natural color, the Baader Contrast Booster works well with my 10".  I have the range of ND filters to cut down on glare, but I think steady seeing and higher magnification have a greater effect.



#13 JoshUrban

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 08:41 AM

I've looked at both but I can only see a red circle for Mars and a bright light for Venus.  I'm guessing I need filters. Its hard for me to find some because I read some people say don't bother and some people say the lower priced ones work and other say only bother with the best

Hmm, are stars sharp in your scope?  Perhaps checking the collimation is in order. Venus should show a phase, and Mars some detail (although VERY subtle.)  "Averted vision" is a phrase used often in observing, and I love the term "Averted imagination" as well.  Ha!  Filters are subtle improvements upon an already fleeting impression.  If you're not seeing the phase of Venus now, I'd check the collimation first.  

 

  Then, I'll occasionally see HINTS of color (but not like the photos) in the Orion Nebula with my 12.5" dob, and I believe I've even spotted fainter hints in a 10.  But, visual astronomy is typically a black and white experience, excluding stars, of course.  That being said, there's some cool ghostly greens to see with planetary nebulas (try the Saturn nebula in the evenings now.)  



#14 rhetfield

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 09:03 AM

I've looked at both but I can only see a red circle for Mars and a bright light for Venus.  I'm guessing I need filters. Its hard for me to find some because I read some people say don't bother and some people say the lower priced ones work and other say only bother with the best

Look at both planets at sunrise or a little afterwards.  The lighter conditions will cut the glare and you will see them much better.  I was able to see some of the dark areas and the polar cap this morning in spite of less than perfect skies.

 

If you know where to look, Venus can be seen through a scope during the day.



#15 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 11:08 AM

I finally found a vendor that carries the Celestron version of a magenta filter.  This one does not require an adapter tube.  

https://telescopes.n...ilter-1-25.html



#16 NIdahoObserver31

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:35 PM

I've seen color in m42 in my 8" dob twice, transparency was excellent on both occasions and seems to be a deciding factor. The inner nebula was greenish while the outer "wings" were a rusty-pink tone. 

Have had similar experience with my 8". Although the green color is always apparent to me, the pink was only  visible one perfect morning. 



#17 Tony Flanders

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:56 PM

I've always seen the 3 bright stars in the sky that are lined up. Now I know they are called Mintaka, Alnilam and Alnitak ...


Yes, I know those names, as do a fair number of other amateur astronomers. But the name of the group as a whole is Orion's Belt. Everybody who's anybody knows that name.
 

Well I was using my explore scientific 10" dob , my baader 8-24mm and barlow and was looking at the M42 this morning around 4:45am. I was happy to finally know what I have always just looked at but it looked just like a cloud.


That's great! Nebula is Latin for "cloud," and indeed the Great Orion Nebula is a cloud in any meaningful sense of that word, not just in appearance but in underlying physical reality. Like many water-vapor clouds in Earth's atmosphere it's utterly gorgeous, doncha think? Incredibly richly textured, especially around the Trapezium, the quadruple star that lights it up.
 

Is it possible to see any color from the nebula without going the camera route?


That varies from individual to individual. I see the Orion Nebula as vaguely greenish even through pretty small scopes. Other people, not. Regardless, I recommend forgetting about color. It is not an important aspect of deep-sky astronomy, with a handful of exceptions.


Edited by Tony Flanders, 25 September 2020 - 12:57 PM.

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#18 Paul Sweeney

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 01:47 PM

I can often see green in M42, very dark, but obviously green. Never pink. That in 8 and 12 inch dobs.

Venus is an oval right now. Unsteady seeing will make it look like a white blob. Mars is bright and hard to observe. See if you can see the polar ice cap. Focus on that. The surface markings are like wisps of gray smoke. They are not distinct. Filters do help a bit.
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#19 lalojamesliz

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:25 PM

I finally found a vendor that carries the Celestron version of a magenta filter. This one does not require an adapter tube.

https://telescopes.n...ilter-1-25.html


That shop is about two hours south from me. I bought my baader 8-24mm from them and received it the next day even though asked in the comments to not ship it and ill pick it up ha ha ha.
Problems with usps and ups lately.

Doesn't baader make a filter like that too? I might just get this one.
Thank you for sharing

#20 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:49 PM

Doesn't baader make a filter like that too? I might just get this one.
Thank you for sharing

I don't see one listed.

 

Available Filters: Dark Blue Filter, Light Blue Filter, Green Filter, Yellow Filter, Orange Filter and Red Filter.

 

https://www.baader-p...ed-orange).html




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