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Replacement for 8x30E2 suitable for eyeglass wearer

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#1 Albie

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 09:00 AM

Hello people.  I have discussed this a wee bit in the past .  I love my E2's but find it difficult to take in the entire view while wearing my glasses . Also more difficult to get good eye placement with glasses on so I find myself using them without glasses . I still get a decent view without glasses and they are way more comfortable that way, easier eye placement , but there is a significant difference in the view while wearing glasses , especially at night because of my astigmatism . Wearing my glasses while using  the E2's improves the view but shrinks the fov significantly .

The problem is that I can't seem to find a suitable replacement that has enough eye relief to allow me a comfortable view and enable me to see the entire fov without struggling to see it . The one binocular that has my attention for suitable replacement is the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 . The HG is twice what I paid for each of my E2's so I would have to sell both of my E2's to fund it . From what I understand  the 8x42 HG isn't much better than the E2's yet it is twice the money . What it has going for it is increased eye relief although I have no way of trying it to see how it fits me because the stores in my area that sell it don't stock it .

I have always liked the 8x42 size because of all the binoculars I have had or tried , the 8x42 was the easiest and most comfortable. My 8x42 Regal is reasonably easy/comfortable to use with my glasses compared to my other bins. It's always been the most comfy of any bin I've used , with or without glasses on . I would be happy to live with the Regals if they had the wide fov and quality of view that the E2's have .

Maybe I am at a dead end or the point of diminishing returns . I am open to suggestions .

 



#2 ihf

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:23 AM

Holger Merlitz compared Old vs new: Nikon 8x30 EII vs 8x30 Monarch HG


Edited by ihf, 25 September 2020 - 10:23 AM.

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#3 KaterinBortle9

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:29 AM

Hi Albie,

 

While looking around for binoculars in the 8-10x42 configurations, I've noticed that Celestron very recently introduced the Regal ED 8x42 which has 8 degrees FOV, a field flattener and 22.5mm eye relief. Of course the current Celestron is not the same as the Celestron of the Regal LX times and how well the new Regal ED's optical quality measure up to the older is unknown for now. Still, the Regal ED 8x42 is now on sale (back ordered) on Optics Planet for US$349.49. Link: https://www.opticspl...binoculars.html

 

Optica Exotica youtube channel has a review on the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 and something to note as mentioned in the video: eye-balling in the optical view can cause blackouts. I've experienced the same in my Monarch HG 10x42 during daytime use too. I have to adjust to an optimum IDP to minimize it and keep reminding myself not to eye-ball too much in the view. Another important point is that the Monarch HGs has a tendency to be not perfectly aligned. Being a newbie, I'm still trying to figure out if mine is aligned or not...

 

Hope this is of use,

Good health and clear skies!


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#4 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:39 AM

So I see that the nikon eII has about 13mm Eye relief- not enough with the cups rolled down to see the field stops? If you take the  cups off , it looks like you might gain a bit more eye relief (still have to be careful of hitting the eye lens though)? Roll out the big bucks and get the new swaro nl pure,  or get the cheaper by a bunch meade master class  with 8 deg fov, 23mm er . Looks to be the same as the newly introduced celestron regal that KaterinBortle9 mentioned- same specs, same field flattener, same parent company (I think).    Regards, Pat


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#5 KaterinBortle9

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:53 AM

Pat,

 

I just saw the Meade Master Class 8x42 you mentioned and yes the optical specs are similar. Main differences are the weight (Meade's 885g vs Celestron's 768g) and the diopter (Meade's on the focus wheel vs Celestron's on the right barrel). The blue color looks goofy to me though...



#6 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:00 PM

Celestron specifically states their body is magnesium where Meade states theirs is "lightweight". perhaps the weight difference resides there. I also note the warranty is 2 years  at celestron and one year at meade (for manufacturing defects)  Regards, Pat



#7 Mark9473

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:38 PM

Oberwerk Sport ED 8x42 has 8.1° FOV and 18mm eye relief.
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#8 tmichaelbanks

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:27 PM

Nikon roof models, like the M7 8x42 and HG 8x42 probably have the eyeglasses-friendly views you're interested in.

 

If you can step down in magnification, the Kowa 6.5x32 roof model has enough ER for me to see the full 10-degree TFOV, and my prescription is pretty strong resulting in thick lenses.  I also have the HG 10x42 and I can see the full FOV with glasses in that model.  Pentax models seem to have copious ER but a more restrictive FOV if you can live with that.

 

Ah...compromises, compromises.  Pick a vendor with a good return policy and try different models out in person.


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#9 SMark

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 02:28 AM

If you can step down in magnification, the Kowa 6.5x32 roof model has enough ER for me to see the full 10-degree TFOV, and my prescription is pretty strong resulting in thick lenses. 

This is where I landed after I sold my 8x30 E2 due to not being able to see the field stops. I'm happy enough with the Kowa that I will stay with it. I think I actually prefer the lower magnification for the wildlife I am observing with it. I first went for the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42, and while I liked it too, I really wanted something smaller and lighter to take on long walks. The Kowa 6.5x32 hits a sweet spot for me.



#10 KennyJ

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 02:54 AM

Albie,

 

I have a hunch that if you could still somehow find one for sale, an older Zeiss 7x42 BGAT Dialyt would tick all the boxes.

 

Incredibly, it's been over 8 years now since I foolishly sold mine ( in excellent condition in spite of 10 years of regular use ) and the price was only around 25% of the price of a new Zeiss 8x42 SF.

 

Kenny


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#11 Grimnir

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 11:59 AM

Albie,

 

I have a hunch that if you could still somehow find one for sale, an older Zeiss 7x42 BGAT Dialyt would tick all the boxes.

 

Incredibly, it's been over 8 years now since I foolishly sold mine ( in excellent condition in spite of 10 years of regular use ) and the price was only around 25% of the price of a new Zeiss 8x42 SF.

 

Kenny

 

An interesting suggestion by Kenny although the cost (in the UK - not sure about Canada) is likely to be roughly comparable to an HG 8x42. Nevertheless, the Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 is a class act. If you go for the Zeiss 7x42 Dialyt make sure you buy a T*P or T*P*, not a T*. The 'P' indicates prism phase-correction coatings.

 

Graham


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#12 Lt 26

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 10:25 AM

Nikon 8x32se - great binocular with only 17mm of eye relief - SOLD

Nikon 10x35EII - not enough eye relief - Gifted to my son who does not wear glasses

Swarovski 8×30 cl Companions - fantastic little binoculars, the wife snapped these up after one look. The 17mm of eye relief work with her smaller framed glasses.

Along the way I discovered two very important things that folks that don't wear glasses just can't understand. Not understanding our viewing issues does not allow their suggestions to work for us.

1) You will not be truly satisfied untill you find a pair with an actual 20mm of eye relief. If you settle for less you will not get what you want. 18mm no good, 19mm no good, 20mm plus good.

2) Wearing glasses and using binoculars at the same time works best with smaller binoculars like 30-32mm. This is a hard fact and hard for most folks to wrap their head around. I do not find it comfortable to view for extended periods with the weight and length of a 42mm binocular pressed up against a pair of glasses. Just to much bulk to swing around and keep planted against your glasses.

If you try a pair of Swarovski 8x32 EL you will find what you are looking for. I did, my search is over, I am happy and my eyes are happy. My eyes are so spoiled they won't look through anything else.

Dereck
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#13 Albie

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 02:29 PM

Some good advice from you folks .

I firmly believe 20mm or more of eye relief is definitely needed  which is why the regal lx works so well with it's 20mm of er . The Regal's optics aren't near as good as the E2's imo and I doubt the newest Regal is any better .  I really want an 8x40(42) with around 20mm of er that can compete with the E2 or surpass it without having to pay alpha prices, if that's possible . 

The 7x42 Zeiss Dialyt has me curious. Swarovski EL is too rich for me , even used .


Edited by Albie, 27 September 2020 - 02:30 PM.


#14 tmichaelbanks

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 12:20 PM

Nothing will tell you if the ER is adequate and the view comfortable more than trying out a pair or two.

 

Also, draw on the distinction between specified ER and effective ER.  For example, on my Nikon Monarch HG 10x42, the specified ER is 17mm, but the effective ER (as determined by Roger Vine during his testing, see http://scopeviews.co.uk/) is more like 15mm.  Because I can see the entire FOV I reason that 15mm is the "true" ER I need, not the 17mm in the spec.  The situation is quite similar with the Kowa 6.5x32 in that the spec is 17mm, and while I don't know what the measured ER is, it is adequate for me to see the entire FOV.  When I look through the Pentax 20x60, with specified ER of 21mm, I have to twist up the eye cups to the first position to avoid blackouts.

 

A lot depends on the ER provided by the eye pieces, the construction of the eye cups, the fit of your eyeglasses, and of course the anatomy of your face.  All of that is behind the recommendations found frequently here to try a sample any way you can to see for yourself.

 

As a side note, I just purchased a new pair of glasses to adjust for a change in the rotation angle of my astigmatism.  As part of that process I selected frames with a style that did not stand off as much from my eyes as my current frames, which were purchased long before my addiction to binoculars developed (crazyeyes.gif ).  We'll see if that improves things once I get them back, but the optician said it should allow me to get closer to the bino eye pieces and the lenses should be a bit thinner.

 

I read in another thread that a CN member said the distance-oriented lenses from her cataract surgery made a significant difference in binocular usage and comfort.  So, there's things you can do to make accommodations, although you shouldn't undertake unnecessary cataract surgery of course!!


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#15 Grimnir

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 12:29 PM

Nothing will tell you if the ER is adequate and the view comfortable more than trying out a pair or two.

+1

 

Graham


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#16 EverlastingSky

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 02:09 PM

Hello people.  I have discussed this a wee bit in the past .  I love my E2's but find it difficult to take in the entire view while wearing my glasses . Also more difficult to get good eye placement with glasses on so I find myself using them without glasses . I still get a decent view without glasses and they are way more comfortable that way, easier eye placement , but there is a significant difference in the view while wearing glasses , especially at night because of my astigmatism . Wearing my glasses while using  the E2's improves the view but shrinks the fov significantly .

The problem is that I can't seem to find a suitable replacement that has enough eye relief to allow me a comfortable view and enable me to see the entire fov without struggling to see it . The one binocular that has my attention for suitable replacement is the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 . The HG is twice what I paid for each of my E2's so I would have to sell both of my E2's to fund it . From what I understand  the 8x42 HG isn't much better than the E2's yet it is twice the money . What it has going for it is increased eye relief although I have no way of trying it to see how it fits me because the stores in my area that sell it don't stock it .

I have always liked the 8x42 size because of all the binoculars I have had or tried , the 8x42 was the easiest and most comfortable. My 8x42 Regal is reasonably easy/comfortable to use with my glasses compared to my other bins. It's always been the most comfy of any bin I've used , with or without glasses on . I would be happy to live with the Regals if they had the wide fov and quality of view that the E2's have .

Maybe I am at a dead end or the point of diminishing returns . I am open to suggestions .

Yeah I wear glasses with my Nikon EII and it's fine. Able to see the field stops on the 8x30 EII no problem. The trick is to get really small round frames. Think small circular glasses for that "John Lennon" look. Depends on how deep set ones eyes are of course... I was lucky to get away with it. Don't you think it's worth the effort to get some new specialized glasses for use on tight eye relief optics? waytogo.gif


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#17 Erik Bakker

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 02:22 PM

While the views in the 8x30 EII are some of the finest of all, the much better adjustable eyecups of the current generation of roofs will make it easier to adjust those to work with your glasses. That said, only wear glasses with your binoculars if you MUST. 


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#18 Lt 26

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 05:48 PM

Not wearing glasses when using binoculars when you normally wear glasses is extremely inconvenient and does not work all that well. I tried to fight it for years but gave up.

It is very hard to find a great binocular that you are 100% satisfied with if you wear glasses.

Dereck

#19 Swedpat

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 08:14 PM

Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42 is great for eyeglasses. 18mm stated ER but is in reality better than some binoculars with stated 20mm.

Often it has much to do with the eyepiece and eyecup design. With some binoculars the eyepiece lens is unneccesary recessed from the eyecup edge, resulting in a wasted ER.


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#20 tmichaelbanks

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 01:09 PM

Just a short note on the effect of new eyeglasses and frames.  I picked my new glasses up yesterday and in addition to small changes to the strength and astigmatism angle (as expected, both made noticeable improvements in my distance vision), I switched to frames that sit closer to my eyes.  This had a small impact on the lens thickness, i.e., not as thick even though it was a stronger prescription, and it resulted in a larger change to the eye-to-lens distance.

 

Any improvements in viewing?

 

My Kowa 6.5x32s (ER spec'd at 17mm) allowed me to just barely see the entire 10-degree FOV before, but with the new frames the hard field stops can be seen easily and the view is significantly more comfortable.  With this change, I'm almost certain the little Kowas will now become my most often used binocular.

 

Same effect on my Nikon Monarch HG 10x42s (ER also spec'd at 17mm).  I can still see the entire FOV but the view is much more comfortable now.

 

For my binos with shorter eye relief, on the Vortex DB 12x50s (spec'd at 14mm but feels much tighter) and 15x56s (spec'd at 15.6mm but feels a little tighter) I picked up a little bit of FOV on both but viewing comfort is about the same.  With my Oberwerk 8x32 HD II, I picked up about 3/4 of a degree on the FOV with the same viewing comfort.  For all three of these binos, when I view without glasses I can get to a point where I can almost (but not quite) see the hard field stops but even slight changes in eye position result in hitting some blackouts.  If there's a positive aspect to this, the portion of the FOV that can be seen while wearing glasses seems very sharp as the truncated portion is where the view quality falls off.

 

So, I guess the moral of the story is that the next time you get your eyeglasses prescription changed, consider frame styles that move the lenses closer to your eyes.  Seems like a fairly obvious thing, I realize, but it's not always easy to pick a style that suits you and also helps with viewing.  I guess the "best" solution is contacts (or new lenses from cataract surgery), but those have their issues as well.  Or, get smaller, close-fitting frames with circular lenses to minimize the lens thickness.  Overall, I think I picked up somewhere between 1-1.5mm of usable ER with the new glasses.  That range is just a guess, but it's a noticeable change for the better

 

I guess that wasn't such a short note...   wink.gif 


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#21 jrbarnett

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 04:44 PM

Hello people.  I have discussed this a wee bit in the past .  I love my E2's but find it difficult to take in the entire view while wearing my glasses . Also more difficult to get good eye placement with glasses on so I find myself using them without glasses . I still get a decent view without glasses and they are way more comfortable that way, easier eye placement , but there is a significant difference in the view while wearing glasses , especially at night because of my astigmatism . Wearing my glasses while using  the E2's improves the view but shrinks the fov significantly .

The problem is that I can't seem to find a suitable replacement that has enough eye relief to allow me a comfortable view and enable me to see the entire fov without struggling to see it . The one binocular that has my attention for suitable replacement is the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 . The HG is twice what I paid for each of my E2's so I would have to sell both of my E2's to fund it . From what I understand  the 8x42 HG isn't much better than the E2's yet it is twice the money . What it has going for it is increased eye relief although I have no way of trying it to see how it fits me because the stores in my area that sell it don't stock it .

I have always liked the 8x42 size because of all the binoculars I have had or tried , the 8x42 was the easiest and most comfortable. My 8x42 Regal is reasonably easy/comfortable to use with my glasses compared to my other bins. It's always been the most comfy of any bin I've used , with or without glasses on . I would be happy to live with the Regals if they had the wide fov and quality of view that the E2's have .

Maybe I am at a dead end or the point of diminishing returns . I am open to suggestions .

Nikon Action EX 7x35.  9.3 degree FOV; a bit less well corrected than the E2s (but the E2s are by no means perfect in this regard either), waterproof, lifetime no-fault replacement warranty (I dropped mine, prism clamshell chipped, they replaced them within just a couple of weeks of receipt of my damaged unit), more light grasp (albeit less magnification), decently ergonomic, CHEAP(!), standard tripod adapter works with these, ~4mm more ER than the E2s.

 

Question is, can you live without any "snob appeal" and is 17.3mm enough ER for your glasses?  The E2s have 13.8mm of ER.  I have both the 8x30 E2s and the 7x35 Action EXs.  The E2s have better image quality and feel better in the hand, but they are more fragile, not water resistant much less water proof and have a much weaker warranty so if you fumble whilst birding and damage them, you're pretty much on your own.

 

Best,

 

Jim


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#22 Knucklehead

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:39 PM

I bought refurbished Nikon Monarch HG 8x42's recently from Nikon USA. It has according to the specs, 17.8mm of ER. I wear glasses and do not have deep set eyes, these work great for me! I love them, and I can see the entire 8.3* FOV. I also have the Monarch 7 8x30's for daytime carry, which also have an 8.3* FOV. With the somewhat shorter ER of 15.1mm I have to push my glasses onto my nose somewhat tighter than I normally wear them, but it works for me and I can see the whole FOV just fine.

 

I wish the Nikon bins had the same ER as my 7x50 Vixen Foresta has, 20mm ER and I have to turn the eye-cups up one notch from bottom to get the proper distance for me. These are 3 pairs of bins I will likely have for a very long time. Each have excellent optics, and each do some things better than the other two.



#23 gwlee

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 09:22 PM

If you try a pair of Swarovski 8x32 EL you will find what you are looking for. I did, my search is over, I am happy and my eyes are happy. My eyes are so spoiled they won't look through anything else.
 

These have enough ER for my eyeglasses. Specified to be 20mm, but haven’t measured it. Suspect effective ER is a bit less.


Edited by gwlee, 03 October 2020 - 09:26 PM.


#24 Swedpat

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 05:31 AM

These have enough ER for my eyeglasses. Specified to be 20mm, but haven’t measured it. Suspect effective ER is a bit less.

 

A few years ago I tried EL 8x32 and found they are one of the best 8x32s for eyeglasses I have tried.

Like Zeiss with the Victory flourite series, Swarovski has stated the same eye relief for all configurations in the same series despite that is not true. Last year I got the opportunity to try EL 12x50. Despite the same stated 20mm it was not close as good as 8x32 or 8x42 for eyeglasses. Actually far from sufficient for my eyeglasses use. So unfortunately we can not trust the specified value but have to try.




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