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Sell my Nagler for a Delos?

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#1 Mr. Marbles

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 02:17 PM

I have an 8" f/6 Teeter STS which I manually track. For a while, I've been weighing the idea of selling my 9mm Nagler T6 for one of the following eyepieces:

 

8mm Delos (152x)

10mm Delos (122x)

10mm Pentax XW (122x)

 

For my scope, the 9 Nagler has represented a go-between. I love my 13 Ethos and 6 Delos. The former could stay in my scope for an entire night but does come up a little short as far as planetary power (94x) while the Delos (203x) may have too much for typical Northeast seeing. So, a mid-power planetary eyepiece is necessary. 

 

Do you guys find the Delos line optically superior to the Nagler line? 

 

Opting for the Delos would not come with its heart pangs -- in order to finance it, I would need to sell more than just the Nagler. I would have to sell my 19 Panoptic as well. It was my first premium eyepiece I got back in 2004. For years, I loved the lens but the 13 Ethos came along and obviated the need for it: I can get the same FOV with darker backgrounds. So, the 19 Pan has remained as something of a sentimental item in my case. 

 

Would you guys sell both the 9 Nagler and the (seldom used) 19 Pan to finance one of the aforementioned eyepieces? If so, which of the three? 

 

Thanks!
Dan


Edited by Mr. Marbles, 25 September 2020 - 02:19 PM.


#2 brentknight

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 02:28 PM

Why wouldn't you trade the same eyepieces for an Ethos 8mm?

 

Trying to get an idea what about the 9mm Nagler you are unhappy with...



#3 CrazyPanda

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 02:28 PM

So, the 19 Pan has remained as something of a sentimental item in my case.

I feel you on that. I will never let go of my 19 Pan. I rarely use it, but it's too sentimental. Had mine for nearly 25 years now.

 

 

 

Would you guys sell both the 9 Nagler and the (seldom used) 19 Pan to finance one of the aforementioned eyepieces? If so, which of the three?

 

Nope.

 

Chasing photons under Northeast US skies is a fool's errand. Been there.

 

I have a cheap 9mm "gold line" I got for $12. I also have a 9mm DeLite that cost $250 - literally 20x the cost. There's effectively no functional difference in on-axis sharpness or contrast between the two. Why? Because New England skies are truly awful. Of course the Delite has no SAEP, a sharper field stop, and better edge correction, but I cannot really see anything in the DeLite I cannot in the gold line. Did a similar comparison between a 10 Baader Classic Ortho and 10 Delos. Delos had a bit richer red saturation, but that was it. Did a similar comparison between an 8mm TV Plossl and 8 Ethos. Also a similar comparison between 11 TV Plossl and 11 DeLite. Splitting hairs just doesn't work under jet stream laden skies.

 

My telescope has a Nova primary and an Ostahowski secondary. Not necessarily top-shelf premium optics, but not bottom shelf either.

 

If I can't really see a difference between a super cheap mass produced eyepiece and a top shelf premium eyepiece, there's almost no chance you will see a difference between two premium eyepieces from Tele Vue.

 

Go with what you will find most *comfortable* for your needs, but don't buy an eyepiece to pick pepper out of fly ****


Edited by CrazyPanda, 25 September 2020 - 02:30 PM.

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#4 Mr. Marbles

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 02:41 PM

Thank you guys for your responses!

 

The 8mm Ethos would be nice but a bit too rich for my blood. There is nothing I dislike about 9 Nagler, I just have the (perhaps) misguided belief that an 8 or 10 Delos would be better. Like a tad bit more sharpness or contrast. I am probably mistaken. David from TeleVue said I was. 

 

Thanks for the hard truth, CrazyPanda. I definitely notice the difference between cheap and premium eyepieces but it mainly has to do with other things. Panning the heavens with a big, whopping FOV. The big FOV does help since I am using an instrument without tracking. At F/6, I get pretty nice views away from the center. 

 

At the moment, I am leaning towards keeping my two seasoned eyepieces. Perhaps not worth the hassle. The 19 Pan also took a two story dive onto another tenant's balcony, some years ago. There is a nice resale value sapping dent in it, but I had sent it to TeleVue back then and Uncle Al deemed the optics were kosher. My beloved 35 Pan, which like a lemming jumped with it, needed repairs though. 


Edited by Mr. Marbles, 25 September 2020 - 02:42 PM.


#5 russell23

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 02:56 PM

If you were going to replace it the 9mm DeLite is another option.
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#6 havasman

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 02:58 PM

I probably wouldn't. But I like the T6's though I've not used the 9mm. I do have the 8mm Delos, my only remaining one, and it's very good. And I attach no particular value to the Pan that you do not use.

 

I think what you'd lose in FOV going to the Delos would be missed more than what you might theoretically gain in optical performance going from the T6 to a Delos. I think I'd stay with the T6.

 

But you're not going to go wrong with any of those.


Edited by havasman, 25 September 2020 - 03:00 PM.

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#7 SeattleScott

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:00 PM

9mm seems like the sweet spot.

#8 REC

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:07 PM

I feel you on that. I will never let go of my 19 Pan. I rarely use it, but it's too sentimental. Had mine for nearly 25 years now.

 

 

 

 

Nope.

 

Chasing photons under Northeast US skies is a fool's errand. Been there.

 

I have a cheap 9mm "gold line" I got for $12. I also have a 9mm DeLite that cost $250 - literally 20x the cost. There's effectively no functional difference in on-axis sharpness or contrast between the two. Why? Because New England skies are truly awful. Of course the Delite has no SAEP, a sharper field stop, and better edge correction, but I cannot really see anything in the DeLite I cannot in the gold line. Did a similar comparison between a 10 Baader Classic Ortho and 10 Delos. Delos had a bit richer red saturation, but that was it. Did a similar comparison between an 8mm TV Plossl and 8 Ethos. Also a similar comparison between 11 TV Plossl and 11 DeLite. Splitting hairs just doesn't work under jet stream laden skies.

 

My telescope has a Nova primary and an Ostahowski secondary. Not necessarily top-shelf premium optics, but not bottom shelf either.

 

If I can't really see a difference between a super cheap mass produced eyepiece and a top shelf premium eyepiece, there's almost no chance you will see a difference between two premium eyepieces from Tele Vue.

 

Go with what you will find most *comfortable* for your needs, but don't buy an eyepiece to pick pepper out of fly ****

You have some serious glass there my friend! Too bad you live in an area with not so good skies.frown.gif



#9 RAKing

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:10 PM

I think it would actually be an easy call for me.  In fact, I made that same decision a few years ago and have been fine ever since.  I loved my set of T6 Naglers and I am not sure if you would see much difference optically between the Nagler and the Delos.  Both lines are great.

 

But planetary observing is all about comfort for me.  How long can I sit and comfortably study the planet to tease out the details during the brief spells of great atmospheric conditions?  That is always the defining question for me and the clear winner in comfort is the Delos. 

 

My .02,

 

Ron


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#10 lionel

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 09:44 PM

I have a complete set of T6 Naglers from 13mm to 2.5mm and all the Delos from 10mm to 3.5mm. I’ve had the Naglers a long time and still use them a lot because the views are sharp, low in scatter and I really like their compact size. I have no plans to sell them.

 

 I use the Delos eps for critical work...for example, high resolution viewing of planetaries in my 16” dob, and for planets and challenging doubles in my 130 apo. They’re slightly more contrasty than the Naglers, more neutral in tone and remarkably free of light scatter, which sometimes makes the difference between seeing and not seeing a very dim secondary close in to a bright primary or a low contrast planet albedo feature.  I appreciate their long eye relief and adjustable eye cup which make it easy to view comfortably.  But they are bigger, heavier, and a little more of a bother to carry around than the Naglers.

 

Lionel


Edited by lionel, 25 September 2020 - 10:32 PM.

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#11 gnowellsct

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 09:59 AM

Ditch the 9mm nagler and get a 7 mm XW and a 5 mm XW or the delos equivalents. 244x for high magnification is not excessive for your scope. But 7 mm might be better a lot of the time.

You haven't mentioned anything about a true wide field like the 27 panoptic or an XW30

#12 gnowellsct

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 10:03 AM

In accounting your 19 mm is what's called an unrealized loss. If you own the house and the price of the house fell 50%, you can still live in the house and nobody who looked at you would think anything had changed. You would have an unrealized loss in the house. The loss is not realized until you sell it. But if you decide to tote up how much you're worth You really need to use market value or your best guess of same.

That damaged panoptic has lost a hundred bucks whether you like it or not. That money evaporated the moment it hit the concrete. It's just a question of whether the other hundred bucks sits in a drawer somewhere or gets turned to better use.

#13 brentknight

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 10:23 AM

Thank you guys for your responses!

 

The 8mm Ethos would be nice but a bit too rich for my blood. There is nothing I dislike about 9 Nagler, I just have the (perhaps) misguided belief that an 8 or 10 Delos would be better. Like a tad bit more sharpness or contrast. I am probably mistaken. David from TeleVue said I was. 

 

Thanks for the hard truth, CrazyPanda. I definitely notice the difference between cheap and premium eyepieces but it mainly has to do with other things. Panning the heavens with a big, whopping FOV. The big FOV does help since I am using an instrument without tracking. At F/6, I get pretty nice views away from the center. 

 

At the moment, I am leaning towards keeping my two seasoned eyepieces. Perhaps not worth the hassle. The 19 Pan also took a two story dive onto another tenant's balcony, some years ago. There is a nice resale value sapping dent in it, but I had sent it to TeleVue back then and Uncle Al deemed the optics were kosher. My beloved 35 Pan, which like a lemming jumped with it, needed repairs though. 

If your happy with the 9mm Nagler, but want a new eyepiece (eventually), and your happy with the 13mm Ethos, I’d wait..save up some more, then spring for the 8 or 10 Ethos. That’s practically what I did. My 17..13..8 are the pieces I use all the time. The others (including the Delos) are for special occasions. 


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#14 GeneT

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 11:43 PM

For years I owned a 9 Nagler. Many people raved about that eyepiece, but I felt it underperformed just a tad. I switched to 8 Delos and 8 Ethos eye peices, and love them. I sold the 9 Nagler. I also had a similar experience with my 7 Nagler. I sold it, and bought 6 Delos and Ethos eyepieces. I also bought a 5XO. For planetary work, I like the presentation of a Delos. The extra field of view of an Ethos is impressive, especially when there is interesting subjects near a planet that would be missed in the 72 degrees AFOV of a Delos.


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#15 rexowner

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 12:02 AM

If your happy with the 9mm Nagler, but want a new eyepiece (eventually), and your happy with the 13mm Ethos, I’d wait..save up some more, then spring for the 8 or 10 Ethos. That’s practically what I did. My 17..13..8 are the pieces I use all the time. The others (including the Delos) are for special occasions. 

Everyone is different, but personally I find the shorter eye relief of the Ethos uncomfortable, and

the Delos are my favorite eyepiece.

 

YMMV, and the only way to really tell is via experience.


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#16 mr_snout

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 12:41 AM

I feel you on that. I will never let go of my 19 Pan. I rarely use it, but it's too sentimental. Had mine for nearly 25 years now.

 

 

 

 

Nope.

 

Chasing photons under Northeast US skies is a fool's errand. Been there.

 

I have a cheap 9mm "gold line" I got for $12. I also have a 9mm DeLite that cost $250 - literally 20x the cost. There's effectively no functional difference in on-axis sharpness or contrast between the two. Why? Because New England skies are truly awful. Of course the Delite has no SAEP, a sharper field stop, and better edge correction, but I cannot really see anything in the DeLite I cannot in the gold line. Did a similar comparison between a 10 Baader Classic Ortho and 10 Delos. Delos had a bit richer red saturation, but that was it. Did a similar comparison between an 8mm TV Plossl and 8 Ethos. Also a similar comparison between 11 TV Plossl and 11 DeLite. Splitting hairs just doesn't work under jet stream laden skies.

 

My telescope has a Nova primary and an Ostahowski secondary. Not necessarily top-shelf premium optics, but not bottom shelf either.

 

If I can't really see a difference between a super cheap mass produced eyepiece and a top shelf premium eyepiece, there's almost no chance you will see a difference between two premium eyepieces from Tele Vue.

 

Go with what you will find most *comfortable* for your needs, but don't buy an eyepiece to pick pepper out of fly ****

 

I have posted this several times, but I think I went overboard on my eyepiece investment. I am ok generally bc I got most during sales and I think EPs have gone up in price in general. Most of mine are mid to low high end- two Pans, a TV Plossl, two Morphi and three ES. So, I am in a sense glad that my EP needs are pretty much filled, but I think I would be fine with the TV Plossl and two ES or even lower priced subs.



#17 brentknight

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 01:13 AM

Everyone is different, but personally I find the shorter eye relief of the Ethos uncomfortable, and

the Delos are my favorite eyepiece.

 

YMMV, and the only way to really tell is via experience.

What you say is true and I worried about that when I got my first Ethos, but I don't find it to be an issue at all.

 

I'd like to share a kinda funny story about a benefit of short eye relief and Ethos...  Last evening I was poking around near M32 hunting for globular clusters with my 13mm and 8mm Ethos and the 10" Dob.  The Dob was pointing almost to zenith and I had to use both hands to direct the telescope.  I was able to track the telescope fairly easy from this position by placing my right eye socket against the barrel of the eyepiece and gently pushing the scope with my head.  Not something you would need to do very often, but for me it worked very well...


Edited by brentknight, 27 September 2020 - 01:14 AM.

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#18 Miranda2525

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 01:55 AM

I have an 8" f/6 Teeter STS which I manually track. For a while, I've been weighing the idea of selling my 9mm Nagler T6 for one of the following eyepieces:

 

8mm Delos (152x)

10mm Delos (122x)

10mm Pentax XW (122x)

 

For my scope, the 9 Nagler has represented a go-between. I love my 13 Ethos and 6 Delos. The former could stay in my scope for an entire night but does come up a little short as far as planetary power (94x) while the Delos (203x) may have too much for typical Northeast seeing. So, a mid-power planetary eyepiece is necessary. 

 

Do you guys find the Delos line optically superior to the Nagler line? 

 

Opting for the Delos would not come with its heart pangs -- in order to finance it, I would need to sell more than just the Nagler. I would have to sell my 19 Panoptic as well. It was my first premium eyepiece I got back in 2004. For years, I loved the lens but the 13 Ethos came along and obviated the need for it: I can get the same FOV with darker backgrounds. So, the 19 Pan has remained as something of a sentimental item in my case. 

 

Would you guys sell both the 9 Nagler and the (seldom used) 19 Pan to finance one of the aforementioned eyepieces? If so, which of the three? 

 

Thanks!
Dan

I've used Naglers, Ethos, Delos, XW's and more. I much prefer the Baader Morpheus eyepieces over all. They just do everything right as far as AFOV, comfort, eye placement is concerned and are just as sharp.


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#19 TomK1

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 03:04 PM

I would not sell the 19mm or 9 mm.   I'd maybe 2x barlow the 19mm and then save for a 7 mm Delite.  Or maybe just buy an 8mm plossl for less then $100 and live with the small fov.    

 

I'll bet your 6 mm works very good on galaxies, globular clusters and nebula.   I have a similar scope, albeit 11inch,  and spend most of my time with a 13mm (111x) and 8mm (185x) ethos.   185x seems to always give a sharp view of planets.   I tend not to use my 7 mm (207x) or 5mm (290x)  Delite or 6 mm 240x) Ethos with the dob on planets unless I'm viewing Neptune or Uranus.   I'll bet 95% of my viewing with the dob is at 185x or less.

 

I recently bought a televue zoom which I've been using with my 4 inch refractor and it's surprising to me that I can see almost everything on planets at 90x that I can at 185x.   Sort of the same with the 70mm refractor.  Although I usually have to back off of the 3 mm setting ( somewhere between 3 and 4) to get the largest, sharpest, most detailed image with either refractor.  

 

I've never looked through a Delos or eyepieces other than Televue with my scopes.   I sometimes think I can see a smidgen fainter ( one or two of the pinpoint, averted vision, fairy dust moons around  Saturn seem to show up) with the Delites than with my other eyepieces.  The disclaimer to the last statement is I have floaters, I don't do rigorous comparisons, and the atmosphere probably is changing between each eyepiece viewing.   Regardless, the Delites I have give very good views.  A 7mm Delite at 174x may give you a more pleasing planetary image than the 8mm Delos or your 6mm Ethos.

 

All of my Televue eyepieces ( Plossol, Radian, Nagler, Ethos and Delite) give pretty darn good sharp views at the right power with the right scope.   


Edited by TomK1, 27 September 2020 - 03:07 PM.


#20 HansD

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 01:02 PM

I’ve had the opportunity to use just about the whole Televue line and several other brands and settled on these:

 

3-6mm Nagler zoom for planetary and close doubles. Nice to be able to vary the magnification to get the the sweet spot between magnification and seeing conditions.

 

4.5, 8 and 14 Delos. I feel they are sharper and have more contrast than any in the Nagler type 6 line. I don’t mind the narrower FOV because the Delos are wide enough and eye placement is easier, especially with the adjustable eye cup. The Ethos eyepieces are too wide. I can’t really see and therefore use the entire field at once.

 

20mm Type 5 Nagler. My favorite eyepiece. I used everything close to it with the Wide Fields, Nagler Type 4, Panoptics, Plossls, and even the Ethos and I just kept coming back to the 20mm Type 5 for overall eade and image quality. 
 

And then the “grenade”, 31mm Nagler Type 5. I feel it’s  the best in class.
 

These give me the most practical variety for my C11 EdgeHD and SVR102T. I sold everything else and I have never once felt “oh I wish I could try ... on this object.”

 

Hans


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#21 Lola Bruce

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 01:25 PM

Personally I like the Pentax 10mm a little better than the Delos. I also like the 14mm Delos a little better than the 13mm Nagler. Note my scopes below for reference.

 

Bruce



#22 Miranda2525

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 03:04 PM

Until, you sell them again for a Delos, for the 3rd time, lol. lol.gif

I've only sold all of my Morpheus eyepieces once. I went exclusively with binoviewers last year and sold the Morpheus to get binoviewers and 4 pairs of eyepieces. I just recently re-acquired two Morpheus eyepieces again this year.

 

I've bounced back and forth twice from Delos to Morpheus to Delos, which was only one or two eyepieces. Not entire sets. I don't find ALL eyepieces in certain "sets' the same. They all individually have their own little "quirks".


Edited by Miranda2525, 29 September 2020 - 03:06 PM.



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