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NGC 7000 The North America Nebula - Advice Wanted

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#1 Duckymczaps

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 03:28 PM

Hello everyone! Unfortunately my modified canon 60d has an issue that is currently unknown, still troubleshooting it! So I whipped out my canon t3 (unmodded) and used my cls clip in filter to capture NGC 7000. Is this about what you should expect from a camera that is older, and unmodified? It almost looks like lots of noise but I'm sure its just the camera having a hard time picking up nebulosity due to its internal filter. I used calibration frames, darks, bias, and flats. Other details (guide camera, telescope, amount of exposures, etc.) can be found on the astrobin. Please ask any questions and give some criticism!

 

Any advice on how to get a better result out of this would be appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Full res image here: https://astrob.in/7gvfkp/0/

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#2 maxsid

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 04:38 PM

I think it's pretty good for an unmodded camera



#3 grozmaistor

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 05:07 PM

I think it's pretty good for an unmodded camera

I agree with you.

May be some more processing in PS will remove the haze and improve contrast.

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#4 grozmaistor

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 05:11 PM

Have you pushed the saturation in post processing?

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#5 BQ Octantis

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 06:09 PM

That's primarily shot noise in the image.

 

Unfiltered, I'd recommend at least 2-3 hours at f/2.8 on a predominantly Ha target with an unmodded camera to get good results at 100% sensor scale.

 

Your William Optics Zenithstar 73 II APO is an f/5.9; its equivalent of 2-3 f/2.8 hours would be 9-13 hours. Your capture was just 2.5 hours.

 

Adding a filter will further reduce the signal. So you probably need more.

 

Cheers,

 

BQ



#6 Duckymczaps

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 07:17 PM

Thanks for the input! I agree more time is best! Unfortunately weather was not with me here in Texas these past few days. I am also currently working on getting Astro Photography Tool to control my mount so it can run the imaging session automatically, through a meridian flip and all.

 

Hopefully when I figure out whats wrong with the modded camera/ or I get a new camera (more than likely a dedicated astronomy camera) I will be more motivated to stay up longer!



#7 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 03:53 AM

Not bad  at all! I think i need some more integration time but i took about 90 minuts and it came out pretty descent also with an umodded T7i/800d, and a 76 mm scope, no filtering.



#8 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 03:55 AM

 

 

Adding a filter will further reduce the signal. So you probably need more.

 

Cheers,

 

BQ

I did not know that, So adding a filter will increase exposure time? Actually i was hoping to get less stars but more nebulae ...with a filter.

 

I have a couple of filters on loan from a deeps sky buddy. I was thinking of trying an UHC-E filter to test on the Pacman...this is if strom Odette will have passed by, weather is terrible now).


Edited by F.Meiresonne, 26 September 2020 - 03:56 AM.


#9 BQ Octantis

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 08:49 AM

I did not know that, So adding a filter will increase exposure time? Actually i was hoping to get less stars but more nebulae ...with a filter.

 

I have a couple of filters on loan from a deeps sky buddy. I was thinking of trying an UHC-E filter to test on the Pacman...this is if strom Odette will have passed by, weather is terrible now).

Of course. Putting something (instead of nothing) in the optical train will absorb energy by design. Each filter should have a transmittance curve to understand by how much per channel.

 

BQ



#10 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 10:11 AM

Still have some difficulty to understand.

 

Using an OIII filter eg on the veil makes it more visible. Heck once i could even see it (visually) in a 6 " newt. Without that filter no trace att all..

 

Filters block light frequencies, let others pass...why does the camera does not 'see' it better.? What is the purpose of using filters for AP,then? If i increase integration time without filters i will see it better anyhow....on the picture...

 

Of course a human eye is not a camera...but ..i am a bit lost



#11 grozmaistor

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 10:54 AM

Still have some difficulty to understand.

Using an OIII filter eg on the veil makes it more visible. Heck once i could even see it (visually) in a 6 " newt. Without that filter no trace att all..

Filters block light frequencies, let others pass...why does the camera does not 'see' it better.? What is the purpose of using filters for AP,then? If i increase integration time without filters i will see it better anyhow....on the picture...

Of course a human eye is not a camera...but ..i am a bit lost

You will have a better contrast with the filter of course.

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#12 BQ Octantis

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 06:05 PM

What is the purpose of using filters for AP,then? If i increase integration time without filters i will see it better anyhow....on the picture...

 

The function of a filter is to block a range of frequencies more than others with the purpose of isolating the rest. Just because a filter reduces the overal flux doesn't mean you don't have enough light to form an image. But reduced flux means more integration time. Basic physics and mathematics.

 

Filters don't produce photons, they eliminate them. Here is the spectrum of the UHC-E filter. It reduces the light in the RGB range by ~10%.

 

astronomik_uhc-e_trans.png

[Source]

 

An unmodded DSLR doesn't "see" Ha very well to begin with. With this filter, it "sees" it 10% worse. While the filter may improve the contrast against whatever is being rejected, it will still take 10% longer to reach the same level of shot noise as without it (whatever the integration time).

 

BQ


Edited by BQ Octantis, 26 September 2020 - 06:06 PM.

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#13 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 02:53 AM

10%, that is not too bad then...

 

Interesting info.

 

Will try it, well, if the weather allows me.

 

Really bad here for the moment...Storm passed by, quite some damage to trees and some houses lso...in Belgium...




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