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Please Help. NEW APM XWA 20mm Dew / Haze

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#1 iMskywalker

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 06:41 AM

Hi guys,

 

I really need your help. Literally, 20m ago, I was thrilled picking my brand new 304/1500 Dobson out of the delivery truck. It's still packed just beside me as I write this. I started by checking the eyepiece I ordered along with it (an APM XWA 20mm) and, removing the lids from what seemed an untouched eyepiece I just saw something that alarmed me.

 

As you might see bellow the bottom lens has a circle, of what seems to be condensation in it. So... what should I do now? Should I send it back to Astroshop or try to clean it myself? And, if so, HOW should I try to clean it?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

 

gallery_318212_14567_406495.jpg

 

The packaging and the lens, seemed fine, although its a plain white, unbranded box. It was absolutely clean, dust and scratch free.

 

gallery_318212_14567_223727.jpg

The top lens is absolutely clean also.

 

gallery_318212_14567_379744.jpg

 

This is the problem.


Edited by iMskywalker, 01 October 2020 - 06:45 AM.


#2 havasman

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:05 AM

You have documented the problem very well. I'd contact the seller and Markus at APM, show them the problem and ask for their preferred solution. That doesn't look at all like dew to me but looks like some sort of contamination, possibly from the packaging. If the seller and APM want you to clean it, make sure they agree to replace the eyepiece if cleaning doesn't work out. Get clear instructions from them regarding what cleaning process they want you to use. If the surface is abraded by rubbing on some surface before it got to you then it will have to be replaced.

 

There are cleaning processes and materials many of us here use that usually employ 91% isopropyl alcohol and cotton swabs or Kimwipes. But you should get and follow processes indicated by APM and the vendor.

 

That's a very good eyepiece and you're in for years of enjoyment of it after these few days spent solving this problem.

 

I bought an APM HDC 13mm very shortly after they hit the market and did not work right when it arrived. The field of view was just a mess. I contacted Markus. He proposed that it had been assembled incorrectly, copied me on his series of emails with the factory where he informed them of the assembly error which they agreed could have caused my problem, and arranged for a replacement to be shipped to me from his US distributor. It's likely you'll be fine soon.


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#3 jupiter122

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:17 AM

Return it for a new one. You shouldn’t have to spend your time cleaning brand new equipment.

Tim
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#4 havasman

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:31 AM

Tim is definitely not wrong. Depending on your location, cleaning could resolve the problem more quickly. But replacement is probably preferred.



#5 havasman

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:57 AM

I just remembered that the ES100 20mm I used to have had a problem with getting "stuff" on the objective lens surface that was caused by the soft cap flexing and contacting the lens front surface. See if your cap is the source of the contamination. If so you'll have to clean it or this will just recur immediately. And I remember that I replaced that cap with a stiff one f I bought from Agena Astro. That was the permanent fix.


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#6 iMskywalker

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 04:25 PM

Havasman and Tim I can’t thank you enough for your wise words.

I called the local seller from which I purchased it and they told me that I could return it right away, sending it directly to their headquarters in Germany. Meanwhile I e-mailed Markus as you suggested and he replied promptly saying that he didn’t had a clue on what it could be since he always double check every eyepiece that leaves his shop. So he incouraged me to try to clean the stain that he believes will come out easily, using a lens paper moistened with lens cleaning solution or a clean microfiber cloth (dry).

I confess that I am a bit scared but I think I’ll try it tomorrow with the Moistened lens paper. It really could be Dew from coming from a cold environment to my very hot home. Or, as you wisely suggested, markings from the soft rubber cap.

 

Lest hope so.

 

Once again, thank you so much for your support! Tomorrow I’ll post what happened with the cleaning adventure 😬

 

clear skies

Miguel


Edited by iMskywalker, 01 October 2020 - 04:28 PM.

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#7 havasman

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 04:32 PM

Havasman and Tim I can’t thank you enough for your wise words.

I called the local seller from which I purchased it and they told me that I could return it right away, sending it directly to their headquarters in Germany. Meanwhile I e-mailed Markus as you suggested and he replied promptly saying that he didn’t had a clue on what it could be since he always double check every eyepiece that leaves his shop. So he incouraged me to try to clean the stain that he believes will come out easily, using a lens paper moistened with lens cleaning solution or a clean microfiber cloth (dry).

I confess that I am a bit scared but I think I’ll try it tomorrow with the Moistened lens paper. It really could be Dew from coming from a cold environment to my very hot home. Or, as you wisely suggested, markings from the soft rubber cap.

 

Lest hope so.

 

Once again, thank you so much for your support! Tomorrow I’ll post what happened with the cleaning adventure

 

clear skies

Miguel

That really does not look like dew or residue from previous dew. If you have authorization, you really should send it back.



#8 Starman1

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 04:23 PM

This is a problem with the eyepiece due to the use of a soft rubber cap on its bottom.

The cap gets pressed into contact with the bottom lens by the foam in the box, causing a smear.

 

It cleans off easily with alcohol and a q-tip.

 

I replace the cap with a hard plastic one and clean the lens on every single one before shipping because that's what they should have done at APM.

Explore Scientific had this problem on their 30mm 82°, too, until they switched to hard caps.

Stellarvue also has this problem on their 20mm Optimus.

 

It is not a defect, and you will not find one without it.  They are ALL that way, no matter whose label is on the eyepiece.

Clean it and move on.  The dealer who sold it to you should have cleaned it and replaced the cap before they shipped it to you.

 

If you decide to continue to use the rubber cap (not a good idea), then insert a piece of hard plastic between the bottom of the eyepiece

and the foam in the box or a case before storing the eyepiece so the pressure is uniform across the bottom.

That should prevent the cap from touching.

The permanent solution is a hard plastic cap.


Edited by Starman1, 03 October 2020 - 04:25 PM.

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#9 iMskywalker

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 05:39 PM

This is a problem with the eyepiece due to the use of a soft rubber cap on its bottom.

The cap gets pressed into contact with the bottom lens by the foam in the box, causing a smear.

 

It cleans off easily with alcohol and a q-tip.

 

I replace the cap with a hard plastic one and clean the lens on every single one before shipping because that's what they should have done at APM.

Explore Scientific had this problem on their 30mm 82°, too, until they switched to hard caps.

Stellarvue also has this problem on their 20mm Optimus.

 

It is not a defect, and you will not find one without it.  They are ALL that way, no matter whose label is on the eyepiece.

Clean it and move on.  The dealer who sold it to you should have cleaned it and replaced the cap before they shipped it to you.

 

If you decide to continue to use the rubber cap (not a good idea), then insert a piece of hard plastic between the bottom of the eyepiece

and the foam in the box or a case before storing the eyepiece so the pressure is uniform across the bottom.

That should prevent the cap from touching.

The permanent solution is a hard plastic cap.

Hello Don,

 

Thank you so much for your input on this. I've to confess that, if this would work, it would save me a lot of trouble. BUT at this point I'm panicking  a bit because I I bought this eyepiece as an upgrade to the standard SWA 32mm that came with the first telescope that I bought after long, long consideration. I chose the Omegon Prodob 304/1500 and bought it here:

https://www.astrosho...04-1500/p,54683

 

 

The package also included the Omegon Crayford dual focuser and the Omegon Deluxe Red Dot finder

 

After I wrote this initial message, I realised there's also a very small (minuscule) rupture in the coating in the same lens. It's not visible in this photo but I'll try to picture it tomorrow so you can give me your opinion on it. It's really, really small, about 1,5mm long per 0,5mm wide.

 

But I also realized that the Red Dot Finder had some very small dents and a fingerprint smear right in the middle of the screen.

 

And one of the focuser nobs was dirty, greasy and with small hints of oxidation. It even came with a small hair...

 

I wonder... is this normal at all? Shouldn't this items be brand new? Or are this somehow tested before  sending to clients?

 

I'll have to check the telescope itself tomorrow to see if at least that is 100% new. It's a bit too heavy for me to check it alone without risking damaging it myself. So I already requested a friend to help me.

 

gallery_318212_14567_250785.jpg

 

gallery_318212_14567_97146.jpg

 

gallery_318212_14567_44180.jpg

 

 

Am I being too picky? confused1.gif

 

I can't thank you enough for your knowledgeable opinion on this. 

 

Thanks

Miguel


Edited by iMskywalker, 03 October 2020 - 06:02 PM.


#10 Jond105

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 05:44 PM

I have an APM HDC 20mm as well. Like Don. Mine has been replaced with a hard plastic bottom. It will save you a lot of trouble to clean it off. There’s nothing wrong with it.
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#11 iMskywalker

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:06 PM

I have an APM HDC 20mm as well. Like Don. Mine has been replaced with a hard plastic bottom. It will save you a lot of trouble to clean it off. There’s nothing wrong with it.

Thanks!

Tomorrow I’ll picture that small coating defect so You guys can see if it’s ok or not. Thank you so much.

 

About the focuser dirtiness and the RDF Fingerprint on screen, do you think that Is normal too?

Thanks,

Miguel 


Edited by iMskywalker, 03 October 2020 - 06:20 PM.


#12 Starman1

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:19 PM

Hello Don,

 

Thank you so much for your input on this. I've to confess that, if this would work, it would save me a lot of trouble. BUT at this point I'm panicking  a bit because I I bought this eyepiece as an upgrade to the standard SWA 32mm that came with the first telescope that I bought after long, long consideration. I chose the Omegon Prodob 304/1500 and bought it here:

https://www.astrosho...04-1500/p,54683

 

 

The package also included the Omegon Crayford dual focuser and the Omegon Deluxe Red Dot finder

 

After I wrote this initial message, I realised there's also a very small (minuscule) rupture in the coating in the same lens. It's not visible in this photo but I'll try to picture it tomorrow so you can give me your opinion on it. It's really, really small, about 1,5mm long per 0,5mm wide.

 

But I also realized that the Red Dot Finder had some very small dents and a fingerprint smear right in the middle of the screen.

 

And one of the focuser nobs was dirty, greasy and with small hints of oxidation. It even came with a small hair...

 

I wonder... is this normal at all? Shouldn't this items be brand new? Or are this somehow tested before  sending to clients?

 

I'll have to check the telescope itself tomorrow to see if at least that is 100% new. It's a bit too heavy for me to check it alone without risking damaging it myself. So I already requested a friend to help me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Am I being too picky? confused1.gif

 

I can't thank you enough for your knowledgeable opinion on this. 

 

Thanks

Miguel

Like the eyepiece cap, the rubber cover got pressed against the "lens".  Careful cleaning this.  Try soapy water on a q-tip first, then alcohol if that's not enough.

anything stronger will hurt the optical surface of the finder.

Dust on surfaces is par for the course.  Use a brush to brush it away and don't worry about it--it'll be a lot dustier in a month or two.

these are assembled in open room, dusty factories, not clean rooms.  


Edited by Starman1, 03 October 2020 - 06:23 PM.

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#13 gnowellsct

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 12:21 AM

$275 ocular and it is having out of the box problems because they can't put on a hard piece of plastic that might cost a factory 20c?  

 

Sometimes I think the China optical exports have overcome their problems....and then....maybe not.  but I have seen other QC/QA problems in astro world.  Quite a few, actually.

 

GN


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#14 iMskywalker

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 06:45 PM

Good news!!! I used a blower, then sprayed a small amount of optic cleaning fluid and a moistened Q-tip. After I gently passed a microfiber cloth... it was perfect!
I still haven’t cleaned the finder screen yet but I already wanted to thank all of you who helped me in this “bumpy start“. It would have been a lot of stress for nothing.
About the focuser, I’m pretty sure it has already been used as the knobs are scratched and VERY dirty. But I won’t bother sending it back now. The eyepiece was my biggest worry. For the focuser, I’ll just check if everything works fine and them paint the interior with Black 3.0. and start enjoying the dark skies the better I can.

Once again, thank you so much, to all of you.

Don, believe me, if I could, I would buy all my Astronomy material from your shop. It’s a shame the outrageous customs taxes we pay here for stuff coming from the US. Knowing you are there to back up all the purchases just brings another level to the expression “warranty”.


All the best to all of you guys,
Miguel
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