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Refractor on order- cancel and go bigger or get a second different scope?

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#1 xonefs

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 01:45 PM

I have a very nice stellarvue svx 102t on order. I got a bigger mount than anticipated, and I'm already thirsting for something larger. The 102t is already expensive and very nice, but now I'm having doubts if I should just cancel and put in an order for an svx 130t which is a real dream scope, and wouldn't leave me with doubts if I should have gone bigger.

 

Yeah there are much cheaper options for big scopes, but I'm kind of locked into the idea of a stellarvue at this point. I could get a completely different 130mm triple for the price difference and probably be satisfied with it (AT/ TS optics), but then I wouldn't use the 102 as much.

 

The 102t gives me 700 at f7 or 500mm at f5. With the 130 it's 900mm at f7 or 700 at f5.

 

The other option is keep it and enjoy when I get it, and spend that money on other accessories/cameras and get some sort of big reflector later to go deeper. This is purely for astrophotography, and I would like to eventually be able to get some high resolution shots zoomed in on DSOs that fill the frame to the edges with nebulosity so idk if a refractor will get me there.



#2 junomike

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 01:53 PM

Depends on your Mount really.  If it can easily hold both, the larger OTA seems like a better idea but along with that comes other considerations (longer cooling, less FOV, Etc).

If you're just starting out (learning) the 102 will be a lot easier on you....


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#3 Eddgie

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 01:55 PM

If you want the 130 and it is a financially responsible purchase, why not get it?  The numbers are just numbers after all.  They really are not so different as to make this a dangerous decision.  

 

Stellarvue will love you, and I am sure you would love your 130.  


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#4 xonefs

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 01:55 PM

Yeah the mount can easily handle and guide both (cem70). The focal length difference doesn't seem too big between the two, which is the reason I was thinking maybe just holding off and getting an SCT or RC later that can image at significantly longer focal lengths would be better. 



#5 xonefs

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 01:56 PM

If you want the 130 and it is a financially responsible purchase, why not get it?  The numbers are just numbers after all.  They really are not so different as to make this a dangerous decision.  

 

Stellarvue will love you, and I am sure you would love your 130.  

Absolutely none of this is financially responsible lol


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#6 tony_spina

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 01:56 PM

Go for the bigger scope if you can afford it.  The mount will handle it


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#7 alphatripleplus

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 02:03 PM

I have a very nice stellarvue svx 102t on order. I got a bigger mount than anticipated, and I'm already thirsting for something larger. The 102t is already expensive and very nice, but now I'm having doubts if I should just cancel and put in an order for an svx 130t which is a real dream scope, and wouldn't leave me with doubts if I should have gone bigger.

 

 

If you are really, really thirsting for something larger... I say go for it, assuming you can afford it. That way you will not have to deal with  the inevitable: what if "I should have gone bigger". My 2 cents.



#8 awong101

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 02:06 PM

This is a thread with some very very nice problems :)


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#9 NikhilJoshi

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 02:09 PM

If you're just starting out in astrophotography, shorter focal lengths and over-mounting are your friends.  True, you'll have a wider field and smaller image scale, but these will help when your starting out. There are so many factors involved such as cameras, flatteners, guiding, image calibration, processing, etc. that keeping things simple at the beginning will make your journey into this hobby less frustrating and more enjoyable. 

 

So my advice is to keep the 102 for a while until you feel you need to raise the challenge bar to longer focal lengths. Many people start even smaller at 80mm and I started at with a Tak fs-60.

 

Good luck and clear skies!


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#10 bobzeq25

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 02:31 PM

I have a very nice stellarvue svx 102t on order. I got a bigger mount than anticipated, and I'm already thirsting for something larger. The 102t is already expensive and very nice, but now I'm having doubts if I should just cancel and put in an order for an svx 130t which is a real dream scope, and wouldn't leave me with doubts if I should have gone bigger.

 

Yeah there are much cheaper options for big scopes, but I'm kind of locked into the idea of a stellarvue at this point. I could get a completely different 130mm triple for the price difference and probably be satisfied with it (AT/ TS optics), but then I wouldn't use the 102 as much.

 

The 102t gives me 700 at f7 or 500mm at f5. With the 130 it's 900mm at f7 or 700 at f5.

 

The other option is keep it and enjoy when I get it, and spend that money on other accessories/cameras and get some sort of big reflector later to go deeper. This is purely for astrophotography, and I would like to eventually be able to get some high resolution shots zoomed in on DSOs that fill the frame to the edges with nebulosity so idk if a refractor will get me there.

+1 to post #9 above.  Somewhat more detail here.

 

Are you new to DSO astrophotography?  Then the two scope solution is _far_ superior, moreso than you're likely to think.  It's simply unintuitive how much longer focal length complicates things.  The effect is far from linear.

 

The reason is the smaller scope will make learning this difficult subject _far_ easier.  Moreso than you're likely to think.

 

If your goal is to image small targets with a big scope, you'll reach it faster/better/cheaper, if you start with a smaller one, and big targets.  Have more fun, less frustration.  Be emailing images to your friends sooner.

 

This is not a close call.  <smile>  A talented beginner, looking back on his first year.  Every word is the truth.

 

"First and foremost is listen to the folks who have been there. The philosophy of 80MM APO and good $1500-2000 mount is great advice for beginners. Sure you can possibly <learn to> image as a beginner with something that is larger or that you may have but holy cow its hard enough with something small."

 

Note one thing.  I'm not saying it's impossible to start big.  I am saying it's substantially better to start small.  That's been proven here, over and over again.


Edited by bobzeq25, 03 October 2020 - 02:47 PM.

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#11 scngc7317

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 02:50 PM

and wouldn't leave me with doubts if I should have gone bigger.   rofl2.gif

 

IMG 3551

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#12 SilverLitz

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:16 PM

Depends on your other scopes, and if for AP.

 

If for AP, get the 130 as I find ~100mm are more tweeners, too short for galaxies and too long for most nebulas.  The 130 will also compliment other shorter scopes better, e.g. a 130 w/ a 60-70 may be enough to have you covered, but with a 100, you may need both the wide 60mm and a longer scope.


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#13 gnowellsct

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:53 PM

If you feel totally loyal to refractors, the 130 is a good bet.

 

If your tastes are more heterogeneous, you could put the 102 on a 9.25 or c8, for example.  Then you can use them together or use them separately.  



#14 xonefs

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 07:07 PM

If you feel totally loyal to refractors, the 130 is a good bet.

 

If your tastes are more heterogeneous, you could put the 102 on a 9.25 or c8, for example.  Then you can use them together or use them separately.  

I don't have any particular loyalties- but I did want a really good refractor which is why I was looking at a stellarvue. I just don't want to find myself lacking or having regrets on the refractor choice so it still gets a lot of use with whatever I end up getting.

 

I was thinking of pairing it with maybe an edgehd 9.25/11 or something else later for more reach/aperture



#15 Echolight

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 08:38 PM

How bout one a these

6115-4T_480x480.jpg



#16 Suavi

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 08:50 PM

For DSO imaging I would definitely get a 130mm with a quality motorised focuser waytogo.gif

 

Narrowband is fine with a 4", but with LRGB spot size is nicer (read: visibly smaller) in a larger aperture.



#17 xonefs

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 12:16 AM

For DSO imaging I would definitely get a 130mm with a quality motorised focuser waytogo.gif

 

Narrowband is fine with a 4", but with LRGB spot size is nicer (read: visibly smaller) in a larger aperture.

Wow, your images are really impressive and what I hope to achieve! That's actually made me feel a little better about what can be accomplished with a 4" if you did those with a 102/105. 

 

I'm still thinking about it... need to see what I can sell. Maybe for now the 102 is ok im sure there's more im not anticipating I'll need to spend on cameras/filters.


Edited by xonefs, 04 October 2020 - 12:17 AM.


#18 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 12:20 AM

I don't have any particular loyalties- but I did want a really good refractor which is why I was looking at a stellarvue. I just don't want to find myself lacking or having regrets on the refractor choice so it still gets a lot of use with whatever I end up getting.

 

I was thinking of pairing it with maybe an edgehd 9.25/11 or something else later for more reach/aperture

 

I get the feeling that this scope is for AP.  Am i right?

 

If so, I'd listen to Bob and Joshi.

 

AP is not about dream scopes, it's about dream mounts and when a 130 mm is the right scope for you, you won't have to ask, you'll know.

 

Jon


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#19 xonefs

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 01:38 AM

I get the feeling that this scope is for AP.  Am i right?

 

If so, I'd listen to Bob and Joshi.

 

AP is not about dream scopes, it's about dream mounts and when a 130 mm is the right scope for you, you won't have to ask, you'll know.

 

Jon

Yes. Yeah I'm thinking of sticking with the 102.

 

I already have my dream mount short of moving to an AP or something. And now that I'm looking at it I felt like the 102 might look small on it and it became tempting to start thinking bigger. A driving decision to order the 102 in the first place was because I was planning on originally spending less on a slightly smaller mount. 


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#20 bobzeq25

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 02:11 AM

In DSO AP mounts frequently "look big".  Because they're the most important part of the setup.

 

Here's a good basic introductory book.  Scroll down to the picture of the author.  That setup will no doubt look weird to a visual observer.  It's a $500 70mm refractor on a $1200 HEQ5 (aka Sirius) mount.  The very expert author (a CNer) didn't pick those because he had them lying around.  <smile>  If your budget is $1700 + camera, that's a darn near ideal way to spend it on an introductory DSO AP setup. You pay more for the mount because it's more important.

 

https://www.astropix...bgda/index.html

 

Think you can't do much with such a small scope?  Below is an image with my 70mm.

 

Better version than the crummy (required) CN jpg here.

 

https://www.astrobin.com/367734/C/

 

The 102 is an OK starter scope, although I'd definitely get a focal length reducer for starting out.  A 130  is definitely too much for starting out.  Not impossible, not very pleasant.  I have one of those, too, purchased after 3 years of experience.  Also have an SVQ100, which I like a lot.

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  • NGC6992 HaO(III)RGB V4.jpg

Edited by bobzeq25, 04 October 2020 - 02:26 AM.

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#21 jonee523

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 12:36 PM

All I am gonna say is **** SV130 on a CEM 70...     Dream set up .

 

 

Jon



#22 Mr. Mike

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 04:45 PM

IMO, one of the costlier things you can do in this hobby is to underbuy a scope.  Some might argue and thats fine.  But, if you really want a 130mm scope then get it.  Dont buy a 102mm scope because you know whats going to happen after a few sessions. wink.gif.

 

Now, we are all human and have budgets so dont go crazy if it wont work.  But if you have the resources and are comfortable with the larger purchase then do it NOW.


Edited by Mr. Mike, 05 October 2020 - 04:45 PM.


#23 bobzeq25

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 06:38 PM

IMO, one of the costlier things you can do in this hobby is to underbuy a scope.  Some might argue and thats fine.  But, if you really want a 130mm scope then get it.  Dont buy a 102mm scope because you know whats going to happen after a few sessions. wink.gif.

 

Now, we are all human and have budgets so dont go crazy if it wont work.  But if you have the resources and are comfortable with the larger purchase then do it NOW.

Excellent advice for visual.  But the OP said "This is purely for astrophotography."   For learning dso astrophotography, the big scope is a _serious_ disadvantage.  Totally different activity.  The camera is not simply "better" than your eyes/brain, it's completely different.  That has implications.


Edited by bobzeq25, 05 October 2020 - 06:41 PM.

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#24 SilverLitz

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 07:30 PM

I would suggest actually buying a very good 70-80mm APO, and skip the 102mm, and later get the 130-140mm after you come up to speed.  As I mentioned earlier, I think the 102mm is a tweener and will not be used for AP in the long run.


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#25 Mr. Mike

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 07:54 PM

Excellent advice for visual.  But the OP said "This is purely for astrophotography."   For learning dso astrophotography, the big scope is a _serious_ disadvantage.  Totally different activity.  The camera is not simply "better" than your eyes/brain, it's completely different.  That has implications.

Ahhhhh - my bad on that then.  Missed that line.  You are correct. ;)


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