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AP 92 F/6.65 Stowaway First Light

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#1 daveCollins

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 12:53 PM

  • 04 / 22 / 2018  at 3:30pm  -  On the list for the scope
  • 10 / 08 / 2020  at 1:35pm -  Offered scope and made purchase
  • 10 / 14 / 2020  Scope arrived

 

• Serial Number: 92665-3-451

 

My impression when I opened the box and pulled out the scope was that the pictures I'd seen didn't come close to showing how special this scope is. Roland is amazing. It is a tiny scope which is of the highest quality. I love machined metal parts which are left in their machined state, although anodized,  but not coated with a finish which hides the machining marks. Every aspect of the scope from mechanicals to optics are impressive. Machined tube with machined baffles. I particularly like the tube rings which are not hinged. I think it makes the scope look like an elegant solution.

 

2020 10 14 Stowaway 05

 

2020 10 14 Stowaway 08

 

2020 10 14 Stowaway 07

 

2020 10 14 Stowaway 01
 

 

2020 10 14 Stowaway 04

Larger: http://www.dcrealm.c...Stowaway_04.jpg

 

2020 10 14 Stowaway 03

Larger: http://www.dcrealm.c...Stowaway_03.jpg


Edited by daveCollins, 16 October 2020 - 02:49 PM.

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#2 Scott in NC

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 01:04 PM

Very nice, Dave!  Maybe I shouldn’t have turned down my spot in line last year, but then again, I’m happy about it if it gave a chance for guys like you to get theirs sooner.  Congrats!


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#3 daveCollins

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 01:56 PM

When I observe, I write down what I see as I am observing. I keep a spreadsheet that has all observations that I've ever made. Below are the observations with the Stowaway. For those targets which I also have other observations, I include those for reference.

 

These are mostly binaries. #E and #T gives the size of the eyepiece in mm, 24 hour time is given. I have copy-pasted the comments while I was observing with no editing (lots of typos). These observations span years.

 

From these comparisons, it appears that the Stowaway holds its own against much larger scopes. My having fun isn't dependent on how big the scope is that I am using.

 

  • STF 2909
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      :::  1925 70° F [4.09, 4.48, 2.3"] 3.7E clean split. Two well defined points. Happy with performance.
    • AP 130 f/6.3 StarFire GTX ::: 23:36 Navigated from Alpha Agr. Wow. Two bright close stars. Impressive due to their brilliance.
    • FSQ 106 EDX                    ::: 23:39 Alpha Aqr was white with a well defined disk. 23:43 STF 2909 Fantastic pair in 3.3T with both white and it is an easy split. This is a good target for the FSQ.
    • Mewlon 300 CRS               :::  23:16 Bright blurry mess. Easy split.
    • TOA-150B                          ::: 21:17 10mm Ethos very bright. Resoved as 2 stars. 6mm Ethos is spectacular. Two intense bright disks, same magnitude, rings visible. Both are white. At 21:28 3.7mm Ethos perfect disks, bery bright. Close with rings visible. Good seeing.
    • AP 180 f/9 StarFire EDT     ::: 21:21 using 10mm Ethos provided a split, but fuzzing into each other. 8mm Ethos clearly resolved as two bright disks. 6mm Ethos two wihte, same magnitude disks well defined and steady. Rings apparent. 3.7mm Ethos two sharp disks with rings hard to see with seeing induced movement. 2.5 Nagler, too much movement.
    • AP 160 f/7.5                       :::  18:02 6mm Ethos Fantastic. Two well defined disks with rings visible, white same luminosity. 3.7mm Ethos showed two perfect disks with rings in and out. The gap is large (about the size of an airy disk). 18:23 3.7mm Ethos Seeing is good. Perfect disks, large black gap with rings.
  • 34 Aqr
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      ::: 1933 (Sadalmelik) Hint of diffraction rings. Inside and outside of focus indistinguishable. Exquisite optics. All with 3.7E.
  • STF 2862
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      ::: 1950 70° F [7.44, 8.41, 2.5"] Quite dim pair. Easy split with clear gap using 3.7E. 6E showed a split in brief moments of good seeing. Much more difficult to split.
    • AP 130 f/6.3 StarFire GTX  :::  23:50 Fantastic impressive binary in 6mm Ethos. Two 8'th magnitude closely spaced partners. The essence of a binary. 3.7 Ethos showed a wide split but dimmer. 2.5 Nagler the stars became fuzzy and dim. Ended with a great view using 8mm Ethos.
    • FSQ 106 EDX                      ::: 00:07 Dim, clean split. Fantastic pair. Good seeing.
    • Mewlon 300 CRS                 ::: 23:04 10mm Tak Both stars were bright with a large gap. Not as fuzzy as brighter stars tonight. With 7mm Tak just gets fuzzier. 17 Ethos both stars bright and better defined and well separated.
    • TOA-150B                             ::: 20:47 6mm Ethos two well separated pinpoints. Two pinpoint  just perfect image of intense light, well defined with large gap and black space between them. "A" may be yellow-orange. It is only barely brighter than "B". 3.7mm Ethos too much. Makes the pair mushy. 8mm Ethos like 6mm Ethos in that the stars are pinpoints. But it is easier to see the delta magnitude with 8mm Ethos. 10mm Ethos quite a bit brighter. Easy split.
    • AP 180 f/9 StarFire EDT       ::: 19:54 Alpha Aqr to STF 2862 at 19:59. 3.7mm Ethos, slightly dim, wide separation. Somewhat fuzzy. Using 8mm Ethos, Bright pinpoints widely separated. "A" clearly brighter. Seems to be light orange. Using 6mm Ethos, well resolved pinpoints, much like 8mm Ethos but larger and more widely spaced. 10mm Ethos, brighter than others, closely spaced.
  • STF 2936
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      :::  2003 70° F [7.01, 9.60, 4.2"] Could not see secondary. Primary well resolved and showed a pinpoint image.
    • AP 130 f/6.3 StarFire GTX :::  2136 59.9° F [7.01, 9.60, 4.2"] Spectacular with 8E. The secondary is right at the limit of perception.
    • TOA-150B                           :::  0135 81° F 46% 8E secondary visible. It is amazing how dim it is and I can see it. Steady pair in 8E with no averted vision needed.
  • STF 2913
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      :::  2009 70° F [7.71, 8.60, 8.0"] 13E easy split, two pinpoints. 8E both dim, huge gap.
    • AP 130 f/6.3 StarFire GTX :::  2158 59.9° F [7.71, 8.60, 8.0"] 3.7E Two evenly bright stars.
    • TOA-150B                         :::  0215 80° F 47% Wide pair in 10E.
  • STF 2935
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      :::  2017 70° F [6.63, 7.88, 2.4"] 3.7E Tough split, but it was a clean split. 6E I can tell it is two stars, but not steady enough to split.
    • AP 130 f/6.3 StarFire GTX :::  2158 60.3° F [6.63, 7.88, 2.4"] 8E  splits, tough. 3.7E splits with a gap. Nice pair … quite close.
    • TOA-150B                          :::  0206 80° F 47% 8E tight pair, but split. There was a clearly a magnitude difference. 6E well resolved. Secondary is quite a bit smaller than the primary.
  • STF 2995
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      :::  2025 70° F [8.18, 8.6, 5.4"] 6E even brightness, large gap. 13E showed two bright stars with clear gap. The wide field of view showed an interesting asterism.
    • AP 130 f/6.3 StarFire GTX :::  2357 75° F 45%  [8.18, 8.60, 5.2"] 10E Same magnitude bright wide pair.
    • TOA-150B                          ::: 0008 74° F 55% 17E well defined pinpoints.
  • STF 3009
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway      :::  2032 70° F [6.71, 8.76, 7.1"] 6E great pair. Primary much brighter. Large gap. 10E also shows a great pair. 3.7E the secondary is at the limit of perception. Like a ghost coming in and out of the shadows.
    • AP 130 f/6.3 StarFire GTX ::: 0002 75° F 45%  [6.71, 8.76, 7.3"] 10E Great pair with secondary easily visible. 8E Nice brightness and well formed image.

Edited by daveCollins, 16 October 2020 - 01:58 PM.

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#4 R Botero

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 02:25 AM

Excellent report and pictures Dave waytogo.gif Welcome to the (new) Stowaway club! cool.gif

Although I’m using mine for imaging now, it pulled no punches on doubles when compared to a 94mm f/7 triplet from a younger Roland and even my 10” f/20 Mak. Colours for almost any pair were beautifully saturated; a testament to some great optics. 

 

Roberto


Edited by R Botero, 17 October 2020 - 02:27 AM.

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#5 ASTERON

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 03:50 AM

Congratulations,

enjoy your new scope !waytogo.gif


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#6 daveCollins

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 08:44 AM

Very nice, Dave!  Maybe I shouldn’t have turned down my spot in line last year, but then again, I’m happy about it if it gave a chance for guys like you to get theirs sooner.  Congrats!

Hi Scott,

 

I had forgotten about the scope until I received the email from Daleen. I certainly had no need for an new scope, but the opportunity to get one of his latest creations which had a new optical design was too much to resist. Now that I have it, I am happy I made the purchase. I think these scopes are always worth the effort to get one if you have a chance. But I do understand why one would turn down the offer. If you have scopes that you are happy with and you want to just enjoy what you have, that also makes sense. 

 

Dave


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#7 daveCollins

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 08:49 AM

Excellent report and pictures Dave waytogo.gif Welcome to the (new) Stowaway club! cool.gif

Although I’m using mine for imaging now, it pulled no punches on doubles when compared to a 94mm f/7 triplet from a younger Roland and even my 10” f/20 Mak. Colours for almost any pair were beautifully saturated; a testament to some great optics. 

 

Roberto

Thanks Roberto,

 

those pictures were taken with a Leica Q2. I have much more appropriate lenses and camera for taking pictures of scopes, and they would have turned out much better, but I was lazy and just used the Leica. It did okay, but I don't like how the objective picture turned out.

 

When I look through my logs above, one thing that I note is that as the aperture goes up, my comments about colors increase. I makes sense that one sees more color when more light reaches the eye. Tonight I'll be using the Stowaway on Mars and will be interested to see how it does.

 

Dave


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#8 daveCollins

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 08:53 AM

I have a question about the design of the lens system. On the Astro-physics site it says the scope has "Roland Christen's air-spaced 3-element lens ...". I thought two of the lenses were oil spaced (the ones closes to the eye), and the third lens was air-spaced from the other two. So in reality it is a hybrid design with both oil and air spacing. Is this correct?



#9 niteskystargazer

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 10:16 AM

Dave,

 

Congratulations, enjoy your new scope !

 

CS,KLU,

 

thanx.gif ,

 

Tom



#10 Scott in NC

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 12:21 PM

Hi Scott,

 

I had forgotten about the scope until I received the email from Daleen. I certainly had no need for an new scope, but the opportunity to get one of his latest creations which had a new optical design was too much to resist. Now that I have it, I am happy I made the purchase. I think these scopes are always worth the effort to get one if you have a chance. But I do understand why one would turn down the offer. If you have scopes that you are happy with and you want to just enjoy what you have, that also makes sense. 

 

Dave

Yeah, if my name came up today (which it won’t since l gave up my spot), I’d probably buy it.  But I was in a different place a year ago. That was a time when I had just purchased a TEC 140 (or was contemplating the purchase of one, I no longer remember the exact timeline), and really had more scopes than I needed or could actually use.  The purchase of yet another high end scope then didn’t really make much sense.  But I’ve thinned the herd a little over the past year or two, and things are different now. I still don’t regret my choice, as I did what made sense for me at the time.  But if I could buy a brand new Stowaway directly from AP right now for the original $3490 price then I likely would (oh yeah, I already said that :grin:).



#11 BCNGreyCat

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 12:29 PM

Never pass an AP scope when you have the chance buy new
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#12 Bill Barlow

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 04:00 PM

AP must be getting close to the end of the third production run of the Stowaway since I see yours is #451.  Also you didn't have to wait long after making the purchase for the scope to ship.  It must have been packed up and ready to go when you got notified.  I made the purchase in mid January this year but didn't get the scope until mid April.  Some of the delay was Covid-19 related I think.  Hope you enjoy yours.

 

Bill



#13 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 05:52 PM

I have a question about the design of the lens system. On the Astro-physics site it says the scope has "Roland Christen's air-spaced 3-element lens ...". I thought two of the lenses were oil spaced (the ones closes to the eye), and the third lens was air-spaced from the other two. So in reality it is a hybrid design with both oil and air spacing. Is this correct?

 

Hi Dave,

 

Congrats on AP92.

 

When I look at laser shot into objective lens, I see typical air spaced triplet object shot with AP92.

 

large.jpg

 

With oil spaced triplet, you see much less reflections from air gaps.(extra air/glass).

 

Here is example.

 

large.jpg

 

A few more air spaced triplet shots:

 

large.jpg

 

large.jpg

 

Tammy


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#14 Scott in NC

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 06:04 PM

Thanks for the illustration, Tammy!



#15 daveCollins

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 09:40 PM

Hi Dave,

 

Congrats on AP92.

 

When I look at laser shot into objective lens, I see typical air spaced triplet object shot with AP92.

...

Tammy

Thanks Tammy, I appreciate the experiment. The AP site says it is air-spaced and your experiment indicates this may be true.



#16 daveCollins

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 09:49 PM

AP must be getting close to the end of the third production run of the Stowaway since I see yours is #451.  Also you didn't have to wait long after making the purchase for the scope to ship.  It must have been packed up and ready to go when you got notified.  I made the purchase in mid January this year but didn't get the scope until mid April.  Some of the delay was Covid-19 related I think.  Hope you enjoy yours.

 

Bill

Bill,

 

When Daleen called me she said that the scope was sitting on the shelf ready to ship. She called on Thursday and the scope was picked up by UPS on Friday. It had a scheduled delivery date of Wednesday the 14th. I'd love to know where my scope is relative to the end of the run, but I have no information concerning that. We may get insight into that if others make postings when they receive their scopes. As I said originally, I never expected Roland to work up to my position. The man is amazing. Instead of retiring, he continues to follow his passion. I find it to be inspirational.

 

Dave 


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#17 t.r.

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 07:39 AM

Air-spaced triplet. The 130 GTX is air-oil.

Edited by t.r., 18 October 2020 - 07:40 AM.

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#18 daveCollins

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 09:32 AM

Air-spaced triplet. The 130 GTX is air-oil.

Thanks t.r., I was thinking of the 130GTX. The Stowaway is air-spaced as you say.



#19 ismosi

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 11:03 AM

Bill,

 

When Daleen called me she said that the scope was sitting on the shelf ready to ship. She called on Thursday and the scope was picked up by UPS on Friday. It had a scheduled delivery date of Wednesday the 14th. I'd love to know where my scope is relative to the end of the run, but I have no information concerning that. We may get insight into that if others make postings when they receive their scopes. As I said originally, I never expected Roland to work up to my position. The man is amazing. Instead of retiring, he continues to follow his passion. I find it to be inspirational.

 

Dave 

When I got the email I was a bit surprised when I called to learn that my scope was on a shelf waiting for me to buy it :)

 

If I'm not mistaken, Roland said he'd keep making them until everyone who wanted one (i.e. is on the list) gets one.



#20 Bill Barlow

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 11:34 AM

I wonder how many folks got on the list for the Stowaway until AP closed it down?  Roland must be nearing the end since you signed up on 4/22.  
 

Bill


Edited by Bill Barlow, 18 October 2020 - 11:47 AM.


#21 daveCollins

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 02:14 PM

I wanted to see how the Stowaway performed on Mars and so I observed last night. Since my previous picture of the objective end of the scope didn’t turn out well, I also tried again with pictures. I wanted to also show what my setup looks like. Note that I actually erect a blind around the entire area and it goes up about 7 feet, so no one can see me and my observing area is more conducive to relaxing and contemplating what I am doing.

 

2020 10 17 Stowaway 01

Larger: http://www.dcrealm.c...Stowaway_01.jpg

 

2020 10 17 Stowaway 02

 

2020 10 17 Stowaway 03

Larger:  http://www.dcrealm.c...Stowaway_03.jpg


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#22 daveCollins

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 02:20 PM

In addition to the log notes, I found the image of Mars to be quite pleasing. It showed a well defined, clear disk and the planet had a feature which was present in SkySafari. What I saw in the scope matched exactly what I was seeing in the SkySafari image. All in all the performance of this small scope was impressive.

The following are un-edited notes at the scope:

 

  • Mars
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway:    2133 10E, 6E, 3.7E show a dark band across the middle of the planet
    • AP 92 f/6.65 Stowaway:     2203 8E a better image. Dark structure across the planet, much clearer. 6E disk with band. Spectacular view with this lens
    • TV-85:   8_Ethos - Fuzzy red disk, no detail. About 20⁰ so maybe atmospheric haze.
    • NP 101is:   Best view of Mars I've ever seen. I could see detailed dark areas across the disk. The seeing oscillated between fuzzy and a clear disk with details. The clear periods lasted 5 seconds at a time
    • TOA-150B:   (year 2016) 1:00am I could see a polar cap and dark regions above the white pole,
    • TOA-150B:   (year 2012) 3.7E in moments of clarity, I could see dark areas on the disk. In 13E view, no details
    • AP 130 GTX -- AP 160 -- APQ 150: The GTX surface detail was sharp and compares closely with the AP 160. The AP 160 shows slightly more detail. With another 30 minutes of observing, the three scopes show dark areas and a polar whitish area. There isn't any difference between these scopes

 

Again, the Stowaway performs quite well when compared to large scopes.


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#23 Erik Bakker

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:46 PM

All you need to do now is update the telescopes in your sig grin.gif


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#24 Scott99

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 01:13 PM

I like the scientific approach to visual observing!  Sort of cringing w/ the use of Ethos on Mars....too much glass IMO tongue2.gif



#25 gjanke

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 04:30 PM

I like the scientific approach to visual observing!  Sort of cringing w/ the use of Ethos on Mars....too much glass IMO tongue2.gif

Youre kidding of course... right Scott The 4.7 and 3.7 ethos are perfectly suited for the Stowaway. My go to eyepieces to for the planets.  

 

Gerald




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