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Couple more DSS questions

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#1 ET_PhoneHome

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 12:05 PM

I have a modified DSLR, and I always shoot in RAW.  Does my in-camera WB setting even matter?  In DSS, I have been checking the "no WB processing" box in the RAW options.  I do all my post in PS, and end up adjusting WB and color there.  Just wondering if I set WB in camera, or let DSS do it, if it'd lead to less work for me?  Here's what a typical histogram looks like for me when I begin stretching.  I'm assuming my modded camera and D2 LP filter is what's throwing the WB out of whack.

 

 

 

 

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#2 idclimber

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 12:10 PM

I don't know all cameras, but on the Nikons, WB does not change RAW data. RAW is supposed to be the data as it is taken off the sensor and before any processing.


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#3 bobzeq25

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 12:21 PM

White balance is simply a preprogrammed adjustment of the RGB channels, to compensate for various types of terrestrial light. 

 

When I was just starting out, I used it some to adjust color.  I soon realized that adjusting color manually was a far more adjustable and precise process.  I now turn off white balance if necessary.  A proper astrophotography processing program, like PixInsight, does that automatically.  If you use DSS and a terrestrial processing program, you may have to turn white balance off manually.

 

Using white balance can be less work.  But it's unlikely to be better.  It does nothing you can't do manually, better.


Edited by bobzeq25, 18 October 2020 - 12:22 PM.

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#4 Boeglewatcher

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 12:40 PM

when shooting RAW, white balance setting in the camera is not meaningful since you get the three color channels separately in the file. well, exactly speaking, you get a black/white picture which is transferred to a color picture when doing the debayer. you can (and should) do the color adjustment later in your preferred Astro software. the filter gives you a bit more work when doing the color balancing.


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#5 ET_PhoneHome

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 01:55 PM

Thanks, all. Sounds like my best bet is to keep doing what I'm doing, and manually adjust in PS. 


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#6 17.5Dob

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 02:40 PM

I have a modified DSLR, and I always shoot in RAW. ....... Here's what a typical histogram looks like for me when I begin stretching.  I'm assuming my modded camera and D2 LP filter is what's throwing the WB out of whack.

post-278762-0-88216000-1603040733.jpg

It has to be your LP filter, because I've never seen that weak a red channel  on a modded cam



#7 ET_PhoneHome

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 03:05 PM

Probably.  I guess that's how it's designed?  When I process the image, I have no problems getting the red to show up, though.



#8 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 10:40 PM

I can guarantee you that if you shoot a custom white balance with the filter in place and then check on use camera white balance in deep Sky stacker and then correctly color manage the image in Photoshop, then it will be easier to process to get the best color you can.

All you have to do then is subtract the foreground sky, and your color is going to be very close to accurate from the get go, and all you have to do is tweak it.

Jerry
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#9 17.5Dob

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 11:12 PM

I can guarantee you that if you shoot a custom white balance with the filter in place and then check on use camera white balance in deep Sky stacker and then correctly color manage the image in Photoshop, then it will be easier to process to get the best color you can.

All you have to do then is subtract the foreground sky, and your color is going to be very close to accurate from the get go, and all you have to do is tweak it.

Jerry

Or use ABE/DBE and PCC in PI on a non WB stack...2 clicks and done..

Using Custom WB might make it "easier", but it is not necessary...

In the OP's post in the dSLR forum he complains about not having any blue in his image of the Veil, only solid red , but in this thread his stacked histo shows virtually no red...using a modded cam...

From stacking to PP something is wrong...


Edited by 17.5Dob, 18 October 2020 - 11:14 PM.

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#10 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 05:03 AM

Or use ABE/DBE and PCC in PI on a non WB stack...2 clicks and done..


Thats nice, but the op said he uses PS, not PI.

Jerry

#11 ET_PhoneHome

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 09:35 AM

Would using AWB in camera work, or not really?



#12 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 01:25 PM

Would using AWB in camera work, or not really?

For an unmodified camera, Daylight white balance is correct.

 

For an unmodified camera shot with a filter, a custom white balance in camera is correct.

 

For a modified camera, a custom white balance is correct.

 

For a modified camera with a filter, a custom white balance is correct.

 

Auto White Balance will not work at all with a modified camera.

 

Auto White Balance on an unmodified camera will not technically produce correct colors if it white balances out the light pollution instead of a subtracting it (which is what it will do on auto).

 

Our eyes evolved under the light of the Sun over millions of year to see sunlight in the daytime as "white" and Daylight White Balance is correct in the camera.

 

Jerry



#13 ET_PhoneHome

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 01:53 PM

Cool, thanks.  I'll try to make a preset for my camera with the filter, and then check "use camera WB" when stacking in DSS.  OTOH, I think I'm able to do a reasonable job at balancing color now in PS, but my recent problem with the Veil seems to be a lack of blue and green signal.  When the colors are  balanced according to the histogram, the red is great, but blue and green are not very visible.  I'm not sure WB would fix this issue (discussed here):

https://www.cloudyni.../#entry10593519



#14 idclimber

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 02:47 PM

Again, WB does not alter RAW data. All this camera setting does when shooting RAW is add that preference to the meta data so that a post processing application can read it and apply it later. If this saves you time in post processing great. But it it really is trivial to change later. 


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#15 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 03:49 PM

Cool, thanks.  I'll try to make a preset for my camera with the filter, and then check "use camera WB" when stacking in DSS.  OTOH, I think I'm able to do a reasonable job at balancing color now in PS, but my recent problem with the Veil seems to be a lack of blue and green signal.  When the colors are  balanced according to the histogram, the red is great, but blue and green are not very visible.  I'm not sure WB would fix this issue (discussed here):

As I answered in the other thread where you ask this, you need more exposure for that faint blue and green stuff from your bright skies.

 

Jerry



#16 ET_PhoneHome

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 05:14 PM

I was able to come up with a better image (IMO).  I restacked, and told DSS to use the camera WB.  Unfortunately, I also added in flats, so I'm not sure which one helped.  More details in my other thread.  My photostream shows them both here:

https://www.flickr.c...s/tischgallery/

 

Normally, I'd also say the WB setting doesn't matter when shooting RAW.  However, when I'm processing in PS, I'm no longer starting with a RAW file; it's a tiff.  Maybe something is happening when DSS takes the raws, stacks them and saves to tiff?  I don't know, but it seems like I had an easier time in PS when I started off with this new stack that used the original camera WB.




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