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The big reverse binoculars

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#1 grif 678

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 06:07 PM

Hi all,

I do not look at the binocular forum too much, so this question may be an old shoe to some. But I remember in my Astronomy and Sky and Telescope magazines from the early 90's, the big reverse binoculars, which were actually two reflector telescopes, which are reversed. Meaning that you are looking into the dual eyepieces one way, and the two scopes are turned around and looking behind you. I remember some of them being pretty big sized. I just wonder if someone who has one of these monsters, would like to comment on the views that these things give.

Thanks

Billy



#2 TOMDEY

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 07:04 PM

I have the JMI RB-66 (six-inchers) and the JMI RB-16s (sixteen-inchers). Yeah, they are magnificent, even more than magnificent. My biggest caution is to not sample such a view, else you are prepared to immediately buy or build giant true binos for yourself. They are that supersuperlative, that comfortable, that revealing, that awesome. The only reasons some people recommend against them is because they can't afford them.

 

Couple pictures here.    Tom

 

~click on~ >>>

Attached Thumbnails

  • 66 Tom's JMI RB-16 six-motor electronic controls.jpg

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#3 sonny.barile

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 07:13 PM

Wow.....that’s amazing equipment. 

Can you describe what globulars like in that thing? 
How wide of a field is it capable of? 
 


Edited by sonny.barile, 19 October 2020 - 07:16 PM.


#4 TOMDEY

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 08:43 PM

Wow.....that’s amazing equipment. 

Can you describe what globulars like in that thing? 
How wide of a field is it capable of? 

My JMI RB-16 shown there only takes 1.25-inch eyepieces, so the available field is about 1.7 times the diameter of the moon, when using e.g. a pair of TeleVue 24mm Panoptic Eyepieces The advantage is the brightness, contrast and presence of even the most subtle deep sky objects... things that you wouldn't see at all with a lesser instrument. I use the pair of ITT Gen 3 Night Vision Eyepieces shown in the previous picture for Globulars. Even the extremely remote ones, deemed near impossible with ~regular~ telescopes become objects of major interest... not only looking good, but also resolved into stars. The brighter, closer showcase globulars are almost too bright to look at. Using the Night Vision with narrowband Hydrogen Alpha filters... the Horsehead Nebula is in your face obvious and distinct --- looking just like in the pictures we see in the literature.   Tom

 

Here's a picture that I took with a different telescope... but it gives some idea of how it looks. >>>    Tom

Attached Thumbnails

  • 88 Horsehead by Tom Dey 1986 showing equiv JMI RB-16 NV view.jpg

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#5 edwincjones

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 04:59 AM

................... The only reasons some people recommend against them is because they can't afford them.........

 

 

Having two scopes to transport, set up, adjust is a little more complicated than having just one;

these fill a nitch, but have never seemed to appeal to the general amateur astronomy community.

 

edj


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#6 ArsMachina

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 05:10 AM

I am really hooked to big binoculars and will never go back to cyclop astronomy :-)

I thought a lot about a big reverse reflecting binos and already had concrete plans to build one.

But there are more drawbacks for me than I am willing to accept to use it often and regular.

So a 150mm refractor bino is my personal limit.

 

Those ITT NV Eyepieces are looking very promising, where can I find more informations about them and perhaps also can purchase them.

Are they allowed to be exported to Europe?

Google did not really help here ...

 

Thanks Jochen


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#7 Tony Flanders

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 05:29 AM

I have the JMI RB-66 (six-inchers) and the JMI RB-16s (sixteen-inchers). Yeah, they are magnificent, even more than magnificent. My biggest caution is to not sample such a view, else you are prepared to immediately buy or build giant true binos for yourself. They are that supersuperlative, that comfortable, that revealing, that awesome. The only reasons some people recommend against them is because they can't afford them.


Well, that plus the fact that some people find the fiddling required to get both eyepieces focused right, and the interpupillary distance just right, to be somewhat off-putting.

 

Can't say myself, never having used them.

 

For what it's worth, I am not a huge fan of two-eyed viewing. I do consider it to be clearly beneficial in a number of ways, but of all the things I like about conventional hand-held binoculars, two-eyed viewing comes pretty low on the list.



#8 edwincjones

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 06:38 AM

the potential notch for me was that these compact sizes would fit in my 12x12' observatory

where an equal dob would not,  but increasing LP negated the project.

 

edj



#9 ArsMachina

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 06:49 AM

LP ?



#10 PEterW

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 07:23 AM

From playing with a friends WO Pegasus binoculars using the EMS system, with well designed adjustment merging the images takes no more time than focussing. Certainly 2eyes is a lot more better than one.

PEter
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#11 salico

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 07:41 AM

and there are some other wonderful reverse binos outside, here the NOCTUTEC 12"/6 that I useP1020422.klein.JPG


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#12 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 08:30 AM

I see the usual quasi-valid negatives are coming in, which is fine.

 

By similar arguments, one would opt to keep the pony, rather than drive a car because: it's too complicated to steer, accelerate and brake... a car is bigger than a pony... a car won't fit in my stable stall... the buggy whip would become obsolete... a car costs too much... The last one is actually ~driving~ the decision; the others are just justifications. Then you eventually get to Loch Lomond and find cars and tents filling the lush pasture afore ye arrived.

 

Chorus
O ye’ll tak’ the pony and I’ll tak’ the Chevy,
And I’ll be in Scotland afore ye.
But me and my true love will never meet again,
On the bonnie, bonnie banks o’ Loch Lomond        Tom

Attached Thumbnails

  • 89 Loch Lomond.jpg

Edited by TOMDEY, 20 October 2020 - 08:32 AM.

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#13 Albie

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 09:07 AM

LP ?

Light pollution


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#14 PEterW

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 09:10 AM

Tom, the skies might be dark in Scotland, but sometimes that’s due to the clouds!

Peter
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#15 Rapidray

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 09:24 AM

Those setups are interesting for sure. I have never looked through one. Would not pass up an opportunity either.



#16 ihf

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 09:26 AM

I was thinking it is so sad that the optical industry didn't manage to reduce the size of these devices down to easily transportable sizes and affordably put them into the pockets of billions of users!

 

Stellarium horsehead


#17 PEterW

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:03 AM

They are the larger siblings of the refracting binoculars. I am sure that Skywatcher could produce a 6” model quite easily if it thought the market was there, but larger ones are going to be specials as few people have the space or inclination for them. If you want to see the Horsehead (a bit smaller scale than your image) with a pocket device that you need a good sized pocket and an NV system, perfectly achievable with a small optic attached. Very good for seeing lots of things and for outreach, sadly not going to have wide uptake either due to cost which is unlikely to drop. The nearest is likely to be “night mode”’on mobile phones that allegedly does a good job.... my phone is rather old and doesn’t work in the dark :-(

PEter

#18 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:23 AM

Would you choose to look up at the night sky with one eye closed, because a monocle is smaller and cheaper than binocular eyeglasses? Give it a try; that shows what you're forfeiting, each and every time you bring only one eye to your monoscope, and deprive the other, envious eye! Obstacles are created to be overcome; convenience is what you make it. When the goin' gets tough, the tough make it easy... and then reap the benefits, evermore... each time they open both eyes to the Universe, as Nature intended. Why settle for half of that?

 

Here's my solution to the convenience problems. Roll-out binos in a dedicated shed, up behind the house. >>> The only remaining detractor is initial cost. I simply saved up and then gleefully splurged. And, looking back on it... before I discovered the fulfillment of True Binocular Deep Sky... I was only/merely half an astronomer.    

 

DISCLAIMER: These comments are for novelty purposes only.

 

Few Pictures >>> click on >>>

Attached Thumbnails

  • 90.1 Tom and RB-16 Binoscope April 29th 2020.jpg

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#19 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:24 AM

nother pic

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  • 93 RB-16s in dedicated roll-out shed.jpg

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#20 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:24 AM

last pic

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  • 92 Toms JMI RB-16s up close.jpg

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#21 Rich V.

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:44 AM

I remember Bruce Sayre's  22" reverse BT was a regular at the Golden State Star Party a number of years ago.  It was huge and ungainly beast but the views were quite incredible.  It showed the best view of the Swan I've ever seen.

 

http://brucesayre.net/

 

RIP, Bruce.

 

Rich

 

 

 


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#22 ArsMachina

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 10:48 AM

The reverse BT of Bruce was my template when I was into building my own.

I looked at many designs, but in my opinion this was the best.

 

Jochen



#23 Rapidray

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 11:10 AM

nother pic

Thanks for sharing your photos...I like them a lot.



#24 grif 678

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 12:22 PM

Wow, the pictures are really something. I guess that these would be for the real serious amateurs who love deep sky, and also the more fortunate. I will probably never look through one of these, but I am pretty sure if I did, I would be less happy with my scope.



#25 salico

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 12:36 PM

I second Tom; DSO views with big reverse binos are amazing!


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