Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Advice on first time buying a new eyepiece (or accesories)

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 02:18 AM

Hello!

 

So I made this post after the last one made me question my choices and the title was no longer descriptive of the problem. 

 

Firstly, I only have two reversed Kellner eyepieces so far, the ones that came with  the telescope (6", F=1200mm), giving me the magnifications of 48x (for the 25mm) and 120x (for the 10mm one). 

 

I mostly use the telescope for observing DSOs, and while I thought I wanted a zoom, I understand that they are not that great for DSOs due to the FOV. So now I am completely clueless... I was suggested on the other topic that I should buy a fixed focal length eyepiece (around 15mm).

 

I know how to calculate magnifications, AFOV and TFOV, but I am happy with whatever clarification you might want to add for a newbie like me. What I don't know,  is what is the best eyepiece for what I want (observing DSOs) in my budget.

 

 

I considered:

  • Celestron zoom eyepiece 8-24mm
  • Meade zoom 8-24mm
  • APM Ultra flat field 15mm (65°) 
  • and if after I chose an eyepiece, I have money left, a Barlow maybe?

So I am happy with whatever review or other suggestions you might have!!!

Budget: 150$

Other considerations: I live in Romania (that's the reason why I have to choose between these zooms - they are the only ones available here under my budget), but I will gladly search here for any eyepieces you suggest that are available elsewhere. Also, no local astronomy club for me to ask there for advice (the closest is 7th away by train)

 

Thanks you so much in advance!!



#2 DLuders

DLuders

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,675
  • Joined: 10 Apr 2017
  • Loc: Spokane, WA

Posted 21 October 2020 - 02:44 AM

You can download the free Excel spreadsheet, "2020 Buyer's Guide to Eyepieces", and see what you can get for $150.  You can see what the Apparent Field of View (AFOV) is, the amount of Eye Relief (in mm), etc.  smile.gif

 

You can simulate the eyepiece views with your proposed telescope+eyepiece combination with the Astronomy Tools Field of View Calculator.  You can see an output like this:

 

   M33 w Meade 9.7mm vs MWA 10mm vs Luminos 15mm.JPG


  • davelpg, wrvond, LIVE LONG and 2 others like this

#3 Boeglewatcher

Boeglewatcher

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 30 Jul 2020
  • Loc: Regensburg, Germany

Posted 21 October 2020 - 02:47 AM

Hi,

when I owned a C6 (lately moved to a C9) I was very happy with the Baader Hyperion 13mm and 8mm. Also used the 5mm on rare occasions since need good seeing.

not sure if a flat field ocular is really suitable for a curved field the C6 provides but I’d say the more FOV you can buy the „better“ for deep field. However, I think you need to test the eyepieces since they are all different when it comes to viewer experience.

i would not go w a zoom of any sort. The FOV is narrow and its (from my point of view) always better to buy dedicated eyepieces.

A Barlow for a C6 is mostly useful if you plan on looking at planets and / or want to do EAA or Astro foto of planets. For DSO better stay with dedicated eyepieces. In your case, would suggest the 13mm Hyperion first.

just my two cents,

Joachim


  • Sorana likes this

#4 Mrcloc

Mrcloc

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: 19 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Pretoria, South Africa

Posted 21 October 2020 - 02:52 AM

Hi. I really struggled to find my eyepiece (I've been looking for years, and actively searching to buy for the last few months). One thing I did know for sure was the focal length I absolutely knew would show me exactly what I wanted to look at. I think if you know the focal length you want, that's a good place to continue after knowing what you want to see (as you do). I bought a Celestron zoom 8-24, but the order fell through, so I can unfortunately not give you my experience of it. As far as I have found out, it is very similar to the Meade 8-24 (close enough to be the same thing). The Celestron has T-thread on under the rubber eye-guard which is nice, but I would easily have bought the Celestron/Meade/Astromania, etc. 8-24mm.

 

There are pros and cons of zooms, but I did receive good advice from someone I know locally. He said you won't get the quality performance with a zoom that you can get with prime lenses. It's like photography - when you really want the high quality images, you use prime lenses. Apparently the Baader 8-24mm is about as good as primes. However, you do get to dial in the magnification/FoV for what you're looking at.

 

For your f/8 scope, maximum useful magnification is around 300x, or a 4mm. If you don't have really good seeing, I wouldn't even try. I'd stick to 6mm as my maximum. I'm not an expert for what magnifications deep sky is best, but it also depends what deep sky you want to look at. The Orion nebula is great at 50x, and big, bright globulars are fantastic at 180x (or even more).

 

I bought on a budget for a slow scope, and I've bought Sky-watcher "Ultra Wide" 9mm (and the equivalent 15mm) 66* eyepieces. I'm extremely happy with the 9mm I have received so far, but you do get what you pay for (kidney beaning, for example). I do really love my 25mm plossl (Orion Sirius), and that with a good 2x barlow would be really fantastic for deep sky, but I did want a little more FoV and that little extra magnification, hence the 9mm.

 

Don't underestimate a good, wide plossl! Barlowing a plossl is a really great option, but if you want to spend more, I've heard the Pentax XF EPs (or even the XW if you want to spend more) are highly praised. If you do go the plossl/barlow route (I myself would stay away from plossl's less than 10mm because of eye relief), you have a great selection from cheap to expensive. I would just advise you to look at 52* at least. Anything equivalent with Orion Sirius or better. The GSO plossl's also get good reviews if I'm not mistaken.


  • Sorana likes this

#5 daniel_h

daniel_h

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,569
  • Joined: 08 Mar 2008
  • Loc: VIC, Australia

Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:09 AM

umaybe first look at what magnification you might use most, eg on my 6” f8 i use 8mm a lot for planetary lunar, and something like 15-18mm for other deep sky objects which are lower mag, you have that covered w your apm. i’m not a big fan of those w zooms you mention - not great contrast, as you live in europe maybe the cheaper seven zoom? i would look for a 7-8mm planetary ep, apm would b a good choice, keep your original 25, it should do for low mag wide views. the 8mm i have is bst flat field, bst paradigm another decent 8mm choice, one of the 7mm planetary clone eyepieces is another option.

ps how much light pollution in your area? how stable is air?


  • Sorana likes this

#6 Wouter1981

Wouter1981

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 199
  • Joined: 09 May 2017

Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:15 AM

I am a big fan of zoom eyepieces. I bought a baader 8-24 zoom for my travelscope, so I didn't had to lug around a eyepiece set while traveling. But it has become my most used eyepiece BY FAR. Occasionally I use a wide field eyepiece but for 95% the convenience of the zoom trumps the better quality of the fixed eyepieces. The baader is of course expensive, there are cheaper ones available and some of them perform rather nice for their price, although I have no experience with them.


  • Sorana likes this

#7 phillip

phillip

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,012
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2005
  • Loc: Sterling, Illinois

Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:22 AM

On reasonable price range but huge performance on sharp image, consideration is the Takahashi starbase orthos. Yes they have small exit pupil but performance nears the costly high end eyepieces. Use my 6mm with decent sky alot, nice 9mm consider as well. 

 

Orthos aren't for everyone, but now rely on mine alot for planetary views. 

 

Run Low as $44! 

 

They do Perform! 

 

Enjoy my 7mm Pentax, but could buy the complete Starbase line with the pricy Pentax! 

 

Clear Sky

 

XT10, same focal length


Edited by phillip, 21 October 2020 - 03:30 AM.

  • Sorana likes this

#8 sg6

sg6

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,266
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2010
  • Loc: Norfolk, UK.

Posted 21 October 2020 - 04:50 AM

I suppose it will come down to the ever useful BST Starguiders, they would seem to fit in terms of focal lengths, unsure of budget fitting - depends on how many.

 

2 of them is whatever name would be around £100, so $130 or €110. Euro may be more as the only source I know of is TS and they cost a little more. Think on TS they are called NED eyepieces.

 

I assume the scope is a 150/1200 newtonian ?

Since finding is likely the first area the the 25mm is the obvious one.

After that a quick idea of magnifications and fields:

8mm (150x,0.4deg)

12mm (100x, 0.6deg).

15mm (80x,0.75deg)

18mm (67x, 0.9deg)

The 25mm being 48x, 1.25deg

 

The 25mm would show all of M42, but not all of M45. The double cluster C14 would be fine in it.

M13 being 20 arcmin 0.3 deg would need the 12mm.

 

My impression is that you would need the 25mm for wide, the 12mm and either the 15mm or 18mm. I know it issaid that DSO's are usually in the 60x to 80x range but M13 and assorted clusters are smaller and I suspect the 100x would be useful. That does assume you get 3.

 

If 2 then the 25mm and either the 12mm or the 15mm. Leave you to decide which.

 

Purchasing from where:

FLO sell Starguiders, TS sell them as NED. Astromarkt sell as Omegon but around 2x the UK price, there is also Skies the Limit on ebay, Alan was the original seller of the BST eyepiece for many years. Trouble is I am unsure of shipping to Romania - likely worth finding an email for Alan and enquiring.

 

Enjoy the torture of deciding, and expect to get I guess around 4 eventually. I ought the whole lot of 6 in 3 purchases of 2 each time, mine came from Skies the Limit (Alan). Noone else sold them at that time.


  • Sorana likes this

#9 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 04:52 AM

umaybe first look at what magnification you might use most, eg on my 6” f8 i use 8mm a lot for planetary lunar, and something like 15-18mm for other deep sky objects which are lower mag, you have that covered w your apm. i’m not a big fan of those w zooms you mention - not great contrast, as you live in europe maybe the cheaper seven zoom? i would look for a 7-8mm planetary ep, apm would b a good choice, keep your original 25, it should do for low mag wide views. the 8mm i have is bst flat field, bst paradigm another decent 8mm choice, one of the 7mm planetary clone eyepieces is another option.

ps how much light pollution in your area? how stable is air?

 

I don't have anything besides the 10mm and 25mm that came with the telescope. The APM was suggested to me earlier.smile.gif

I have Bortle 5 skies and usually good seeing.



#10 Sandy Swede

Sandy Swede

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 421
  • Joined: 23 Feb 2018
  • Loc: Delaware beaches

Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:01 AM

As to zoom eyepieces, both opinions can be "correct" for different reasons.  For example, Wouter1981 is correct that a zoom is a good choice if it is a Baader.  However, it will set you back approx $300.  Others are correct who advise you to skip the zoom because they are probably referring to a lower quality zoom.  I see good reviews of APM (value for the money).


  • Sorana likes this

#11 krokodilce

krokodilce

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:01 AM

I have just ordered these 2 from Orion, and I am waiting for them to arrive:

 

https://eu.telescope...88/p/103606.uts

https://eu.telescope...88/p/103605.uts

 

I think they do ship to Romania as well.

 

I also have 6" dobs. These Expanses are pretty good reviewed, and have a really nice FOV, and are at a affordable price. They also have a 15mm and 20mm if these 2 are "too close" for your DSO observations. :-)


Edited by krokodilce, 21 October 2020 - 05:02 AM.

  • davelpg and Sorana like this

#12 sg6

sg6

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,266
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2010
  • Loc: Norfolk, UK.

Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:04 AM

Add as a second:

Another are the ES 52 degree eyepieces, remembered them after posting the last, you lose some field but at the end not greatly as the resultant magnification makes the difference lesser.

 

For those try the 30mm, 40x and 1.25 degree (again), then the 15mm or the 10mm - 15mm seems better suited.

Astromarkt have them at around the 60€ I guess, check as all my prices come up in £, unsure of TS. FLO were around the £52 mark if I recall - slightly above the BST's but close.

 

Another source may be Bresser.de ES52  Looks like 67€ from there.

They seem to have Vixen NPL plossls, generally a good plossl option.

 

I am glad I bought the whole set of BST's. I don't have to think about eyepieces any more, except for a 4mm I might like.


  • Sorana likes this

#13 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:22 AM

Ok, I really appreciate you answers! I have another newbie question, how big of a difference is there  between a more expensive eyepiece (such as the Badder Hyperion 13mm) and a cheaper (if I can even call them that) eyepiece in reference to just the view? Would it be worth it to invest in a single Baader eyepiece or get 2 or 3 of the other ones some of you suggested?


Edited by Sorana, 21 October 2020 - 05:30 AM.


#14 Boeglewatcher

Boeglewatcher

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 30 Jul 2020
  • Loc: Regensburg, Germany

Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:47 AM

I think the 25mm you have is good for your scope. It’s the 13mm to 8mm range with 120x and mag which you use for most DSO objects. I would go step by step adding one good eyepiece at a time. Only a direct comparison will tell you if you are willing to add the extra cost. When you buy from a German store you can give back the eyepiece within 2 weeks and get your money back. So, you might try and see for yourself.


  • Sorana likes this

#15 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:51 AM

Add as a second:

Another are the ES 52 degree eyepieces, remembered them after posting the last, you lose some field but at the end not greatly as the resultant magnification makes the difference lesser.

This caught my eyes... With winter coming around, does anyone happen to know if this information "The argon filling effectively prevents fogging from the inside, and you need not be afraid of dust, glass fungus or the ingress of cleaning fluid." holds true?

Edit: Found this review, in case anyone is interested as well in these


Edited by Sorana, 21 October 2020 - 06:01 AM.


#16 aeajr

aeajr

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 14,445
  • Joined: 26 Jun 2015
  • Loc: Long Island, New York, USA

Posted 21 October 2020 - 05:55 AM

Accesories
https://telescopicwa...ls-accessories/

Understanding Eyepieces
https://telescopicwa...cope-eyepieces/

My two zooms are my favorite for deep sky, planet and Moon observation. I have others, as you can see below, but these get the most use.

Of all of my eyepieces,my Baader Hyperion zoom is my favorite.

In my 8" 1200 mm FL scope the BH zoom with a 1.5x Barlow was used 90% of the time for 75x to 225x.

In my newer 12" 1520 mm FL, the same zoom without the Barlow is my favorite. Provides 63x to 190x for DSOs and planets.

Edited by aeajr, 21 October 2020 - 06:03 AM.

  • Sorana likes this

#17 Sandy Swede

Sandy Swede

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 421
  • Joined: 23 Feb 2018
  • Loc: Delaware beaches

Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:04 AM

Ok, I really appreciate you answers! I have another newbie question, how big of a difference is there  between a more expensive eyepiece (such as the Badder Hyperion 13mm) and a cheaper (if I can even call them that) eyepiece in reference to just the view? Would it be worth it to invest in a single Baader eyepiece or get 2 or 3 of the other ones some of you suggested?

There is a reason (not all reasoning is logical) that Tele Vue, Baader, etc., eyepieces command high prices - they are good at how they perform.  However, in astronomy as in most 'things', the increase in price vs quality is not an arithmetic scale - it it geometric (logarithmic?).  You will pay considerably more for the last 5 to 10% of performance.  Cruise the eyepiece subforum and you will start to glean a pattern and, consequently, you will be led to some valuable conclusions.  However, realize that, ultimately, what constitutes "a big difference" will be in the eye of the beholder - like beauty.


  • Dennis Tap and Sorana like this

#18 Migwan

Migwan

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,217
  • Joined: 24 Jul 2017
  • Loc: Meeechigan

Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:12 AM

These (or equivalent) are what I would do for the given budget based on my experience.   It would get you started with the equivalent of a 24mm, 16mm & 12mm with decent performance.   You could add a higher power eyepiece later.   This suggestion is not so much about where I would get them, rather it is about what I would get. 

24mm ES 68

 

1.5/2x Barlow

 

Good luck

 

jd

 

Edit; corrected Barlow option


Edited by Migwan, 21 October 2020 - 06:25 AM.

  • MellonLake and Sorana like this

#19 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:34 AM

   This suggestion is not so much about where I would get them, rather it is about what I would get. 

Nothing more I could ask for! Thanks for the suggestion!


Edited by Sorana, 21 October 2020 - 06:41 AM.


#20 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 06:46 AM

I am not kidding when I say I opened this site right before reading your comment! ((:


Edited by Sorana, 21 October 2020 - 06:47 AM.

  • aeajr likes this

#21 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 09:04 AM

Hi again!

 

I really like this one:

The price is great, the reviews seem positive, they have it in stock and it sais that it prevents fogging (I'm not sure if I understand this right: it refers to usual/normal fogging, right?)

If I buy this one, that leaves me with about 70$ for another eyepiece or Barlow.

 

I'm curious to hear what you guys think of this...


Edited by Sorana, 21 October 2020 - 09:53 AM.

  • aeajr likes this

#22 Tony Flanders

Tony Flanders

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,971
  • Joined: 18 May 2006
  • Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA

Posted 21 October 2020 - 09:06 AM

Ok, I really appreciate you answers! I have another newbie question, how big of a difference is there  between a more expensive eyepiece (such as the Badder Hyperion 13mm) and a cheaper (if I can even call them that) eyepiece in reference to just the view?


The short answer is "a whole lot less than most eyepiece snobs would like to have you think." The full answer is a bit more complex.

First off, different eyepieces of identical focal length do have different fields of view -- that's an objective fact. How much the difference is there between the 50-degree apparent field of view of a standard Plossl and (say) the 80-degree apparent field of various ultrawide designs? On the face of it, you see (8/5)^2 = 2.56 times as much sky area -- quite a big difference. How much does that matter? Only you can say.

Second, there's the actual quality of the image, quite aside from field of view. Here, you're in luck with your f/8 telescope. At f/4 or f/5, many of the simpler and less expensive eyepiece designs start to exhibit unpleasant aberrations. But just about any eyepiece works well at f/8, assuming it's not outright defective.


  • spaceoddity and Sorana like this

#23 Sorana

Sorana

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 175
  • Joined: 20 May 2020

Posted 21 October 2020 - 11:21 AM

Hi again!

 

I really like this one:

The price is great, the reviews seem positive, they have it in stock and it sais that it prevents fogging (I'm not sure if I understand this right: it refers to usual/normal fogging, right?)

If I buy this one, that leaves me with about 70$ for another eyepiece or Barlow.

 

I'm curious to hear what you guys think of this...

Also, maybe this barlow? I cannot find reviews about it though....



#24 Sky Muse

Sky Muse

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,935
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Mid-South, U.S.

Posted 21 October 2020 - 11:45 AM

Also, maybe this barlow? I cannot find reviews about it though....

For your 1200mm focal-length telescope, a barlow can be useful, if the collimation of the telescope is spot-on.  The Baader barlow has been favourably reviewed, the ones I've read.  It's a bit of an oddball, at 2.25x.  Its lens-assembly is removeable, to attach directly to an eyepiece, and for a 1.3x multiplier, although personally I wouldn't have a use for that.  

 

This Vixen 2x seems promising... https://www.astrosho...-thread/p,14842


  • Sorana likes this

#25 Mrcloc

Mrcloc

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: 19 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Pretoria, South Africa

Posted 21 October 2020 - 01:13 PM

I reckon you will really enjoy that 15mm! The barlow is expensive for a below, but it does give you nice magnification options, especially the equivalent of about 6.67mm (15mm/2.25) when skies are clear. I've read many good things about it.
  • Sorana likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics