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Seriously Considering a TEC APO160FL F/7

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#51 EricCCD

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 01:07 PM

Hey Eric, my TEC 160ED wants to know if your TMB 152 wants to come out and play.

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

 

The TMB's been pining for a playdate. We can plan for one in the future. Especially after the pandemic (or at least when numbers are going the right way :))

 

Eric



#52 BillP

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 01:21 PM

As a secondary consideration I'd like feedback on the potential of the TEC 160 to replace the C11. The best answer is to compare them both side by side but this would not be an option for quite some time, so any thoughts on this as well would be helpful. And yes, the deforked C11 will weigh in at less than my 30# limit so keeping both is an option but I'd still like replacement feedback.

If you are talking visuals, Like t.r. I think they will be much more equal than different.  I have a 152 Apo and a XT10 Dob.  I have taken both out on several occasions just to see how they compare on galaxies (IMO the toughest targets).  Surprisingly they were exceedingly close showing faintest details and extent in my SQM 21.3 skies.  With some faint face on galaxies the spiral arms that were just visible adverted vision in the 10" were, as I would describe it, as being more hinted at in the 152 with adverted vision.  So there but more ethereal than faint.  Given that you are thinking of a larger 160, which gathers about 11% more light than a 152, will probably be a closer match on those target types.  On planetary, of course there will be less thermal instability in the refractor, but still the greater light gathering of the 11" on that target type will mean you cannot push as high magnification as a 0.5mm exit pupil in the C11 is 558x while in the 160 is 320x.  So on planetary (for image scale) and planetary nebula (which often benefit from very high magnifications), you will not be able to push the envelope near as much.


Edited by BillP, 25 October 2020 - 01:37 PM.

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#53 MarMax

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 10:36 AM

Great assessment Bill, and I'll probably end up keeping the C11. I've always wondered how, in my non-laboratory setting, to tell if my C11 is a good, fair or poor one. Unfortunately the seeing so far has not been good enough to do any 400-500x star testing. I've only owned it since June so perhaps in the winter I'll get that chance to see a proper Airy disc. My gut says it's OK to good but even when I collimate (which it rarely needs) it's hard to do because of the seeing thus far. I've decided to name my collimation tool the "Dancing Duncan Mask" . . . lol.



#54 Jeff B

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 02:05 PM

A couple of winters ago, after I had gotten my C11 back from Celestron with a brand new set of optics, I had it out to test out my use of Reflectix on it to reduce thermals, dewing and basic better thermal management of the system (and the stuff did a great job too).  I also had my TEC 160ED out as well.   Seeing was "good" with excellent clarity.  I spent a lot of time with both scopes on M42.  The C11 was well collimated and the new optics are excellent, some of the best I've seen in an SCT in DPAC.  Both scopes had been outside doing their thermal things for a couple of hours and I started looking around, especially at M42 when it was well placed, about an hour east of the meridian.  

 

The views through the C11 were excellent in their own right.  The E and F stars were easy with plenty of structure in the nebula.  Very nice!

 

However, I noticed a certain extra "intensity" and "vividness" in the views of M42 with the TEC 160.   The E and F stars were just as "easy" too. 

 

So, I did a little comparison between the two, in mono-vision (ugh) trying to match exit pupils.  I found a couple of eyepiece combinations that got me real there.  For the C11 (F10), they were my Celestron 35mm Ultima and my Clave 20mm Plossl, giving exit pupils of 3.5mm and 2.0mm respectively.  For the TEC 160ED (F8), they were my Edmund 28mm Plossl and my Clave 16mm, giving the same respective exit pupils as the C11. 

 

The results were really interesting.  At matched exit pupils compared to the C11, the image was smaller in the TEC but that intensity thing on M42 was rather ....intense, especially in the subjective contrast in subtle features and structure across the nebula and that glow around the Trap.  The nebula was not only subjectively a little brighter in the TEC at matched exit pupils, but also subtly sharper and the background of space seemed a little dimmer in the TEC.  That extra intensity included the Trap too.

 

I then bumped up the magnification on the TEC a little using my 15mm Celestron and 25mm Clave Plossls, to try to get a subjectively equal brightness between the two scopes.  This was hard to judge so I guess I was close.  But that certain vividness associated with the TEC remained.  

 

I consider the brightness thing to be more associated with the refractor having the more efficient aperture through to the eyepiece and the vividness thing perhaps related to "contrast" differences between the systems, but, as I understand it, the two are also related.  

 

Yeah, inch for inch they are very expensive  and their image scales are typically smaller, but, never underestimate how effective a well made refractor can be on DSO's.

 

Jeff


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#55 Jsquared

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 11:39 AM

After you use an Image Intensifier you might reevaluate future telescope purchases.

The 140 TEC with an image intensifier (nice combination BTW) will show you more objects and in light polluted skies than the 16” Dobsonian will when used with regular eyepieces. And the Dob will need a dark sky to perform at its best.

Of course a 16" Dobsonian with an intensifier would be mighty powerful but after you use the intensifier you might find that something else would fit your needs better and be less expensive.

Bob


True that’s why the dob purchase is years off. First have to use the 140 fully. I am interested eventually in tracking down some faint galaxies though so suspect a dob is in my future. Thanks Bob for your sage advice. Right as usual.

#56 Cotts

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 04:11 PM

there's a 160 FL on AM right now for$7000

 

 Ridiculous!!!!!!  How can this be legit?

 

Dave



#57 MarMax

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 04:30 PM

Yep, the seller has very good ratings and I replied . . . but you never know. That difference between 12.5 and 8K could cover a nice NV device :)


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#58 Ihtegla Sar

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 05:36 PM

Yep, the seller has very good ratings and I replied . . . but you never know. That difference between 12.5 and 8K could cover a nice NV device smile.gif

That didn't last long -- its already sold.  Did you get it?  I am on the lookout for a TEC 140 ED or a 160 ED  but at that price I'd snap up a TEC 160 FL.  I've been watching CN and AM daily, but it looks like one needs to check hourly in order to get a deal like this.

 

I am considering just buying new though since my wife has this irrational fear of used equipment . . . otherwise I might make an offer on the AP 155 that went up on CN and AM this morning.



#59 MarMax

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 05:42 PM

That didn't last long -- its already sold.  Did you get it? 

Nope and did not even get a reply. As you said, need to be sitting on this stuff ready to respond if you want to have a chance. I'm quite happy to buy new anyway . . this was just a temporary distraction.



#60 Ihtegla Sar

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 05:52 PM

Nope and did not even get a reply. As you said, need to be sitting on this stuff ready to respond if you want to have a chance. I'm quite happy to buy new anyway . . this was just a temporary distraction.

Since I am visual only, I had thought to save some money and get an ED either 140 or 160, which should be as good for visual as the FL models and considerably less expensive, but to keep my wife happy I may too need to get a new one.  Just have to decide between the 140 and 160 and whether I want to order a TEC or a CFF. 

 

I was going to order the last CFF f7.9 165mm since that seemed like a really good deal (about $1,500 less than the CFF 160 f/8) for a slightly larger scope, but when I tried to order it this morning Catalin replied and said it was already gone.  Sometimes you have to jump on the new scopes almost as fast as the used ones.


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#61 Scott in NC  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 06:43 PM

I sent the seller a message before it sold, but frankly am glad that someone else bought it, as I don’t really need another scope right now.  And then what would I do about my “perfect in every way” TEC 140ED?  I couldn’t justify the expense of keeping both, yet also don’t want to part with the 140.  I hope someone on CN bought the 160 and will post here to tell us about it when it arrives.


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#62 weis14

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 06:46 PM

That was a great price! I bought the last one offered a few weeks ago and paid significantly more.

Not that I'm upset with mine; it's a beautiful scope. Can't wait until I get a chance to use it.

#63 Alan S

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 10:28 PM

I sent the seller a message before it sold, but frankly am glad that someone else bought it, as I don’t really need another scope right now.  And then what would I do about my “perfect in every way” TEC 140ED?  I couldn’t justify the expense of keeping both, yet also don’t want to part with the 140.  I hope someone on CN bought the 160 and will post here to tell us about it when it arrives.

My. Thoughts. Exactly.

lol.gif


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#64 StarAlert

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 09:08 AM

there's a 160 FL on AM right now for$7000

 

 Ridiculous!!!!!!  How can this be legit?

 

Dave

Dave, I see you sold a 160FL a few months ago. Do you miss it?



#65 turtle86

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 09:24 AM

I sent the seller a message before it sold, but frankly am glad that someone else bought it, as I don’t really need another scope right now.  And then what would I do about my “perfect in every way” TEC 140ED?  I couldn’t justify the expense of keeping both, yet also don’t want to part with the 140.  I hope someone on CN bought the 160 and will post here to tell us about it when it arrives.

 

I’m almost glad I didn’t see the ad myself as I would’ve been very tempted.  Definitely a great scope at a great price.  



#66 Scott in NC  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 09:32 AM

I’m almost glad I didn’t see the ad myself as I would’ve been very tempted.  Definitely a great scope at a great price.  

It did concern me a little that none of the images in the ad showed the objective, i.e., the most important part of the scope. :shrug:
 


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#67 Tyson M

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 11:12 AM

I sent the seller a message before it sold, but frankly am glad that someone else bought it, as I don’t really need another scope right now.  And then what would I do about my “perfect in every way” TEC 140ED?  I couldn’t justify the expense of keeping both, yet also don’t want to part with the 140.  I hope someone on CN bought the 160 and will post here to tell us about it when it arrives.

I did too, and am glad someone else got it as well haha.

 

 

It did concern me a little that none of the images in the ad showed the objective, i.e., the most important part of the scope. shrug.gif
 

This was my primary concern, and asked to see it, which, I got no reply.

 

 

 

 

Last time a similar "deal" like this I pounced on on the other site, there was a tiny spot of coating loss on the objective which meant it wasnt a deal at all, merely paying it accurately for what it was worth.

 

Furthermore, I LOVE my TOA130 and really dont want to sell it.  Plus my dream of an observatory is on the horizon and I need to stay focused/vigilant to try and get that started, along with a pier and heavy duty EQ mount head (AP, Paramount, maybe EQ8 or Losmandy G11 I dunno).


Edited by Tyson M, 30 October 2020 - 11:13 AM.


#68 StarAlert

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 12:35 PM

Okay. So here's the deal. I purchased a TEC160ED three weeks ago from a wonderful gentleman (Ari) in San Jose. I drove up there from LA to pick it up in person and it looks fantastic. Ari had purchased it four years ago and used it perhaps once a year when he got together with his astronomy buddies. He usually spends his time doing imaging remotely from a permanent observatory in New Mexico. The ED looks new to me but I have yet to actually look through it because I'm waiting for my new 10Micron to be delivered. It made it from Milan to LA in two days but has been stuck in Customs for five days, now. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

 

Yesterday afternoon, I was looking through the AM classifieds and saw the TEC160FL listed for an amazing price. I immediately sent MarMax and email alerting him to the ad and asked him if he'd jumped on it. After thinking about it for nine minutes, I sent the seller an email myself telling him I'd buy it and I'd drive up to Jackson to pick it up. He sent me his PP account and told me to make payment ASAP as he was swamped with emails. I obliged. I didn't ask any questions.

 

Given his excellent ratings and the fact he had just sold another scope a week earlier and the buyer was very happy. I had no issue making the deal without seeing a picture of the objective. In fact, if you look at the ad he posted today for the Pier-Tech2 he is selling, his observatory looks nicer than my bedroom. 

 

As a bonus, it turns out the seller will be in Carmel next week and he offered to bring the scope there for me to pick up. This turned what would have been a 30 hour road trip into 10 hours. That made me very happy.

 

I certainly don't have a need (or the money) for two TEC160s. And I can't believe I will have two of them at the same time. My plan is to put them both up on the 10Micron and compare the views over three or four nights. To be honest, I am skeptical of the f7 vs the f8. If the FL can match the ED, I will keep the FL and sell the ED only because the FL is a bit more portable (I have already contacted Ihtegla Sar and told him he could have first shot at the ED if he wants it).

 

And to be clear, the ED is NOT that big or heavy. I have an AR152 and there isn't much difference between the two. Probably because the AR152 does not have a retractable dew shield. 

 

So that's the story. I will post pics when everything is set up. 


Edited by StarAlert, 30 October 2020 - 03:34 PM.

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#69 Scott in NC  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 12:40 PM

Yeah Tyson, the same as you I got no reply when I asked to see pics of the objective.  But to be fair to the seller, if he found a buyer who was willing to plunk down $7000 to buy a scope sight unseen without any questions or asking to see the objective, then why would he take the time to reply to guys like us?  Come to think about it, I didn’t even get a “sorry it’s been sold reply.”  But whatever...I’m good.


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#70 Scott in NC  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 12:43 PM

Okay. So here's the deal. I purchased a TEC160ED three weeks ago from a wonderful gentleman (Ari) in San Jose. I drove up there from LA to pick it up in person and it looks fantastic. Ari had purchased it four years ago and used it perhaps once a year when he got together with his astronomy buddies. He usually spends his time doing imaging remotely from a permanent observatory in New Mexico. The ED looks new to me but I have yet to actually look through  because I'm waiting for my new 10Micron to be delivered. It made it from Milan to LA in two days but has been stuck in Customs for five days, now. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

 

Yesterday afternoon, I was looking through the AM classifieds and saw the TEC160FL listed for an amazing price. I immediately sent MarMax and email alerting him to the ad and asked him if he'd jumped on it. After thinking about it for nine minutes, I sent the seller an email myself telling him I'd buy it and I'd drive up to Jackson to pick it up. He sent me his PP account and told me to make payment ASAP as he was swamped with emails. I obliged. I didn't ask any questions.

 

Given his excellent ratings and the fact he had just sold another scope a week earlier and the buyer was very happy. I had no issue making the deal without seeing a picture of the objective. In fact, if you look at the ad he posted today for the Pier-Tech2 he is selling, his observatory looks nicer than my bedroom. 

 

As a bonus, it turns out the seller will be in Carmel next week and he offered to bring the scope there for me to pick up. This turned what would have been a 30 hour road trip into 10 hours. That made me very happy.

 

I certainly don't have a need (or the money) for two TEC160s. And I can't believe I will have two of them at the same time. My plan is to put them both up on the 10Micron and compare the views over three or four nights. To be honest, I am skeptical of the f7 vs the f8. If the FL can match the ED, I will keep the FL and sell the ED only because it is a bit more portable (I have already contacted Ihtegla Sar and told him he could have first shot at the ED if he wants it).

 

And to be clear, the ED is NOT that big or heavy. I have an AR152 and there isn't much difference between the two. Probably because the AR152 does not have a retractable dew shield. 

 

So that's the story. I will post pics when everything is set up. 

Nice!  I’m glad another CN’er got it, and the fact that you’ll be able to pick it up in person is a real bonus.  Hope it turns out well, and I’m really looking forward to hearing more about it when you get it.


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#71 MarMax

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 01:03 PM

Good work StarAlert! And thanks again for the heads up on the scope. Although I replied to the seller a couple minutes after I saw your PM it was probably the 10th offer in the stack. I had also offered to drive up and pick it up since it's only about 16 hours for me.

 

I'll be sending in my $3K deposit today for the TEC160FL. As I said earlier . . . this was a distraction in the original plan. But it's always good to get the heart rate up and the blood flowing.


Edited by MarMax, 30 October 2020 - 01:11 PM.


#72 weis14

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 01:18 PM

Glad to hear you got it. Please share the comparison once you've had a chance to evaluate them.

#73 Tyson M

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 02:54 PM

Okay. So here's the deal. I purchased a TEC160ED three weeks ago from a wonderful gentleman (Ari) in San Jose. I drove up there from LA to pick it up in person and it looks fantastic. Ari had purchased it four years ago and used it perhaps once a year when he got together with his astronomy buddies. He usually spends his time doing imaging remotely from a permanent observatory in New Mexico. The ED looks new to me but I have yet to actually look through  because I'm waiting for my new 10Micron to be delivered. It made it from Milan to LA in two days but has been stuck in Customs for five days, now. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

 

Yesterday afternoon, I was looking through the AM classifieds and saw the TEC160FL listed for an amazing price. I immediately sent MarMax and email alerting him to the ad and asked him if he'd jumped on it. After thinking about it for nine minutes, I sent the seller an email myself telling him I'd buy it and I'd drive up to Jackson to pick it up. He sent me his PP account and told me to make payment ASAP as he was swamped with emails. I obliged. I didn't ask any questions.

 

Given his excellent ratings and the fact he had just sold another scope a week earlier and the buyer was very happy. I had no issue making the deal without seeing a picture of the objective. In fact, if you look at the ad he posted today for the Pier-Tech2 he is selling, his observatory looks nicer than my bedroom. 

 

As a bonus, it turns out the seller will be in Carmel next week and he offered to bring the scope there for me to pick up. This turned what would have been a 30 hour road trip into 10 hours. That made me very happy.

 

I certainly don't have a need (or the money) for two TEC160s. And I can't believe I will have two of them at the same time. My plan is to put them both up on the 10Micron and compare the views over three or four nights. To be honest, I am skeptical of the f7 vs the f8. If the FL can match the ED, I will keep the FL and sell the ED only because it is a bit more portable (I have already contacted Ihtegla Sar and told him he could have first shot at the ED if he wants it).

 

And to be clear, the ED is NOT that big or heavy. I have an AR152 and there isn't much difference between the two. Probably because the AR152 does not have a retractable dew shield. 

 

So that's the story. I will post pics when everything is set up. 

Didnt you just get a DZ as well to compliment your DL, mentioned two days ago?

 

So two TEC160's and a DZ recently....drained the savings account indeed lol.gif bow.gif .

 

If the above is true, I believe you might be the first individual on CN who caught two severe diseases at the same time, TECITIS and TAKITIS. 


Edited by Tyson M, 30 October 2020 - 02:56 PM.

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#74 StarAlert

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 03:27 PM

Didnt you just get a DZ as well to compliment your DL, mentioned two days ago?

 

So two TEC160's and a DZ recently....drained the savings account indeed lol.gif bow.gif .

 

If the above is true, I believe you might be the first individual on CN who caught two severe diseases at the same time, TECITIS and TAKITIS. 

Tyson, my friend, you are paying attention.

Yes, I picked up a DZ to go with my DL and two TEC160s in the span of a month. 

The thing is, can one get TECitis without ever having looked through one? 


Edited by StarAlert, 30 October 2020 - 03:47 PM.

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#75 Haydon

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 03:30 PM

I saw the ad too and thought what a deal but my 140 is all I could ask for.  Judging by the seller's other equipment and the his observatory, it's overwhelmingly probable that he is familiar with the do's and dont's of taking care of equipment.  I imagine the optics are in great shape.  And if there are any issues with collimation, etc. you've got Yuri and his team.  Congrats


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