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Suggestions for a “push to” 10-inch Dob?

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#1 GeoNole94

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 12:50 PM

Hello all, I started out looking for a goto SCT, but I am now thinking that a “push to” 10-inch solid-tube Dob is a better idea for what I want right now. I have also looked into truss-tube Dobs, but I haven’t seen any push to, just goto. The Orion XT10i intelliscope seems to be where I am headed, but I wondered if anybody has other suggestions, including a truss design. I am not ready to go above the 10” size, it will already be enough of a challenge to store the tube.  Thanks in advance!


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#2 spaceoddity

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 01:36 PM

The XT10i is great option. Another option that may be a little cheaper is a GSO made dob(Apertura, Zhumell) and add the EZ push-to kit yourself. https://romer-optics...ds-of-dobsonian

 

Some people add their own mechanical push-to system by adding an azimuth protractor ring to the base and a digital inclometer to the scope for (alt). This method requires some hands on know how ,and the coordinates for the object you are searching for.


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#3 cuzimthedad

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 01:45 PM

Hi Geo and welcome to CN! I think the XT10i is an excellent choice. Two of my club members own this scope and it is easy to transport, set up, and use. It also has enough aperture to provide you with a lifetime of observing pleasure.


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#4 aeajr

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 01:57 PM

Hello all, I started out looking for a goto SCT, but I am now thinking that a “push to” 10-inch solid-tube Dob is a better idea for what I want right now. I have also looked into truss-tube Dobs, but I haven’t seen any push to, just goto. The Orion XT10i intelliscope seems to be where I am headed, but I wondered if anybody has other suggestions, including a truss design. I am not ready to go above the 10” size, it will already be enough of a challenge to store the tube.  Thanks in advance!

I owned an XT8i and enjoyed it very much.  The 10" should be very satisfying as it can be used with and without the PushTo Intelliscope feature.  I often used it as just a manual Dob when I didn't need the computer assistance.  So you are not locked into using the computer assist in any way. 

 

Using the XT8i I also learned how to star hop and to find targets using the AltAz method with angle gauge and AZ circle.

 

Using an angle gauge to help find targets – AltAz coordinates
https://www.cloudyni...y/#entry8120838

 

 

A PushTo alternative to the Intelliscope would be the Romer Optics EZ PushTo for GSO, Apertura, Zhumell or Orion Skyline Dobs.  All reports I have read is that installation takes about 15 minutes and that it works well.

https://romer-optics...ds-of-dobsonian

Video

https://www.youtube....XWLcv1-xU&t=36s

 

If you keep the Dob in a well ventilated, dry, and ground level garage or shed it will be very easy to store, move and use.  My Apertura AD 12 is about as easy to move and use as my 80 mm refractor.


Edited by aeajr, 25 October 2020 - 02:06 PM.

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#5 GeoNole94

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 02:05 PM

These suggestions are exactly what I am after, many thanks!


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#6 FLT-Astro

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 02:24 PM

About 2 weeks ago, I purchased a Zhumell Z10 Dobsonian for $699, and it's terrific. (Amazon's prices jump around a lot, so check other sites. Currently, the z10 is over $1000, but I found it a few other reputable sites that have it in stock for the realistic price of $699)

 

I've owned a few other scopes, a small Mak, an 8" Newt with goto mount, but never a Dobsonian. I'm just now completing the 10 Z10 mods from this thread.

 

https://www.cloudyni...s#entry10561181

 

I purchased an EZ Push To for $109, and it's works great too. It's the cheapest push-to I've heard of, but I did want to keep the total cost low. (Took me about an hour to install the system, and it works great with my iPhone 7, but also works with Droids and even has a Stellarium plugin)

 

My thoughts were, I'd invest in a budget but well regarded 10" Dobsonian to make sure I really like it, use it for about a year, then make the jump to a larger dob with either push to or goto. I tend to stare at the Orion xt16g a lot. But that 3000 will be spent after I make sure I truly enjoy the dob method.

 

So far, the experience has been really great. I am pretty sure as of now that I'll jump off the big dob cliff about this same time next year. While the year passes, I'm upgrading my eyepieces to a herd of 7-10. 7 eyepieces, 1-2 Barlows, and a TV Parcorr.

 

My total investment  without eyepieces is about &1000 and includes ten upgrades from the mod thread listed above.

 

I am considering putting the setting circles on as well, but for now, the push to works well.  I want to spend more observing then searching. smile.gif

 

Plus, it's kinda cool doing some of the mods yourself. A handle on the OTA, milk jug washers on the secondary, secondary knobs, rubber bottom bumpers, knob in cover, homemade counterweight bag, a 2x4 20inch riser table to put the eyepiece at eye level for me, and more.


Edited by FLT-Astro, 25 October 2020 - 02:29 PM.

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#7 GeoNole94

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 02:58 PM

Thanks for the Z10 suggestion, and the ez push mod info. Most everything I look at is out of stock right now. I guess that there is a lot of demand because of the great planetary availability and the CV-19 issues.



#8 aeajr

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 03:30 PM

The Z10, Apertura AD10 and Skyline 10 are the same scope with different labels.  All made by GSO.  The AD10 and Z 10 also have the exact same accessories.  The Skyline has similar but not exactly the same accessories. So if you are looking at new and used, that is your universe.



#9 Sheol

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 06:18 PM

    Btw, is 10 inch the size you absolutely have to have? Because Orion has 2 Truss tube Intelliscopes. A 12 inch size ( I'm buying this) & a 14 inch one. Most telescope companies do not offer 10 inch in Truss tube. I know there is an exception to this, somewhere, but cannot remember the company name. It may be defunct now, as a real possibility.

 

    Clear Skies,

     Matt.


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#10 GeoNole94

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 06:47 PM

Orion and Sky-Watcher have 10” truss tubes. I got mixed impressions from reviews of the truss versus solid tubes, so I decided to stick with the solid tubes. I originally thought of getting the 8”, but the 10” are essentially the same lengths, just larger diameter. The 12” is a significant size increase, so I decided to stay with 10 until I get aperture envy.


Edited by GeoNole94, 25 October 2020 - 07:04 PM.

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#11 aeajr

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 09:26 AM

Orion and Sky-Watcher have 10” truss tubes. I got mixed impressions from reviews of the truss versus solid tubes, so I decided to stick with the solid tubes. I originally thought of getting the 8”, but the 10” are essentially the same lengths, just larger diameter. The 12” is a significant size increase, so I decided to stay with 10 until I get aperture envy.

You are exactly right in your assessments.  The only downside to the 10" as compared to the 8" is the focal ratio and its effect on eyepieces.  The 8" will be F6 and the 10" F4.7.   The lower the focal ratio the steeper the light cone at the edges as it enters the eyepiece.  This makes is harder for the eyepiece to present a uniformly good image across the entire field. But if you stay with well corrected eyepieces this can be confined to the very edge of the field and is not usually a big problem.   

 

You are absolutely correct about size.  My 8" compared to my 12".  The 10" would look very similar to the 8 in this comparison.

 

The 12" lives on a hand truck in my garage making it very easy to handle.  You can do the same with your 10".

 

The 10" will fit across the back seat of most cars.   My 12" fits nicely in my Nissan Rogue leaving the front passenger seat open for an observing buddy.  I often take the 12", an 80 mm, and 10X50 binoculars with me when I go observing just to have options.  Some targets benefit from the very wide view, low power capability of the 80 mm and some look best in binoculars.

 

I include a photo with the 12" in my car just to give you some ideas of a dob in the back of an SUV.  In the photo below you see the hand truck in the car but I don't usually take it as I set-up right next to the car so I don't need the hand truck.  Just wanted to see how it would fit.   An 8"/10" could fit with only half the back seat down.

 

I worked this all out before I went to the 12" to be sure it would be EASY to manage and use. 

 

Since I gave up the Intelliscope I had on the 8" I incorporated an AZ scale into the mount of the 12" and use an angle gauge on the optical tube to use AltAz coordinates to find things.  You can do the same on your 10" if you wish.   I originally did something similar on my 8" XT8i so I could learn this technique. 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Apertura fitted to red handtruck (240x320).jpg
  • Apertura AD12 and Orion XT8i (240x320).jpg
  • AD12 tube base observing chair hand truck and all accesories in Rogue with front passenger set still available (320x240).jpg
  • Apertura AZ scale close (320x240).jpg
  • Angle Gauges on XT8 OTA (240x202).jpg

Edited by aeajr, 26 October 2020 - 09:27 AM.

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#12 GeoNole94

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 11:31 AM

Thanks, aeajr, those are helpful photos and personal experiences. The photo of the 8 and 12 together convince me that I wasn’t ready for a 12 or larger. My wife is already going to give me a “****?” look when she sees the 10-inch tube. Any recommendations for eyepieces that work particularly well are most appreciated.

 

So, I went ahead and ordered the Orion XT10i. Any suggestions on necessary or recommended accessories or upgrades are appreciated. I think that I would benefit from a quality binocular eyepiece, but I don’t know if those are supportable on a Dob setup. Mostly, I hope to get the scope delivered by my birthday in mid-November. waytogo.gif


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#13 cuzimthedad

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 12:36 PM

Congratulations! Looking forward to your eventual first light report! You opened the floodgates by asking about accessories so I'll throw in my penny.gif penny.gif first by suggesting two things...a steady observing chair and star charts. I'm old school and like paper so I use the Sky & Telescope Pocket Sky Atlas and also print out charts from online. Many people use phone apps and I'll leave it to them to chime in. I like having an observing plan so I'll also write up a list of things I'd like to see for a session and keep that in a protected sleeve. I use a red light head lamp for reading charts during a session, so that would be three items I suggest having. There will be many more suggestions coming in a moment. Have fun!


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#14 aeajr

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 02:31 PM

Thanks, aeajr, those are helpful photos and personal experiences. The photo of the 8 and 12 together convince me that I wasn’t ready for a 12 or larger. My wife is already going to give me a “****?” look when she sees the 10-inch tube. Any recommendations for eyepieces that work particularly well are most appreciated.

 

So, I went ahead and ordered the Orion XT10i. Any suggestions on necessary or recommended accessories or upgrades are appreciated. I think that I would benefit from a quality binocular eyepiece, but I don’t know if those are supportable on a Dob setup. Mostly, I hope to get the scope delivered by my birthday in mid-November. waytogo.gif

Accessories to add to your Telescope
https://telescopicwa...ls-accessories/

 

Understanding and using a Barlow Lens
https://telescopicwatch.com/?s=barlow

Understanding Telescope Eyepieces- There are recommendations, based on budget,
but the meat of the article is about understanding the considerations and specifications
to know when selecting eyepieces.
https://telescopicwa...cope-eyepieces/

 

In my opinion, an adjustable height observing chair is a must have.  This is discussed in the accessories article.

 

This is the one I built.  

 

Observation Chair- Denver Chair – Works Great!

I built this one .  It took about 2 hours.  Can be built from scrap but if
you went all new, about $30.  This was perfect for my 8".  

I am going to make a new one that is just a little taller for my 12"
http://valleystargazers.com/Chair.pdf

 

 

Folding Observing Chair - I have not made this one but that looks
interesting and not too hard or expensive to build.
http://www.budgetast...observing-chair

 

Observing Chair – Lybar Chair and Variants
I have not built or used any of these but they look interesting and easy to
build.

 

 

Read the article on eyepieces.  Not knowing your budget I can't specifically recommend anything but there are recommendations in that article.  I have never used a bino viewer in any of my scopes so I can't comment on that.  

 

Here is the eyepiece set I built up for the XT8i over a 3 year period.  Same FL as the XT10i so the mags will be the same.  I often topped out at 180-220X.  I would expect you to be able to push about 30 to 40X higher with yours due to the larger aperture and darker location.  I would focus up to about 250X and barlow for anything beyond that till you build up over time.   Ask any questions you like. 

 

 

The Bolded ones are the ones I used the most. 

 

 

Orion XT8i – 8”/203 mm manual Dob Newtonian, 1200 mm FL F5.9
Resolving power -  .6 arc Seconds

 

AA  70            38 mm          31.5 and    2.2 degrees  FOV   2” (finder and low power wide view eyepiece) 
Meade 82      20 mm           60X  and  1.37 degrees            2”  (large DSOs )       

ES 82             8.8 mm                136X and    .6 degrees         
ES 82             6.7 mm                179X and    .45 degrees         
Meade 82      5.5 mm                 218X and   .37 degrees 
ES 82             8.8+2XB               272X and    .3 degrees
ES 82             6.7+2XB               358X and    .22 degrees
Meade 82      5.5+2XB                436X and    .18 degrees

 

Baader Hyperion 8-24  zoom     50X to 150X
Baader Hyperion 8-24+1.5XB  75X to 225X (My most used 1.25” eyepiece in this scope)
Baader Hyperion 8-24+2XB   100X to 300X


Edited by aeajr, 26 October 2020 - 02:36 PM.

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#15 GeoNole94

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 04:30 PM

Wow! That is an incredibly generous effort to help, I really appreciate this!!



#16 aeajr

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 10:07 PM

Star charts

 

Old school is paper charts and they are still extremely popular.  I have two books of paper charts, but I don't use them.

 

 

I prefer to use an electronic chart/planetarium system.  I use it on my home computer, tablet and my cell phone.  I use it on the phone when sitting at the telescope.

 

If you don't have Stellarium, install it TODAY!  Free for your computer.
$10 for your phone and tablet.  This is my most used astronomy software.
http://stellarium.org/

Stellarium FAQ
https://github.com/S...larium/wiki/FAQ

Getting Started with Stellarium –
https://www.youtube....h?v=CrT9ZW5YB6c
https://www.youtube....h?v=1opPoR6A3bU
https://www.youtube....h?v=CrT9ZW5YB6c
https://www.youtube....h?v=bYF7SR99ZOw

 

 

Another very popular one is SkySafari

https://play.google....&hl=en_US&gl=US

 

It is available for Android and IOS.  I don't think it is available for Windows, Linux or Mak, but I could be mistaken.   I have the free version on my phone, but I keep going back to Stellarium so I have not really gotten to know this app. 


Edited by aeajr, 26 October 2020 - 10:11 PM.

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