Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

IMX183 cameras

astrophotography CMOS equipment imaging
  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Zubenelgenubi17

Zubenelgenubi17

    Sputnik

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 28
  • Joined: 31 Jul 2020
  • Loc: Eastern US

Posted 26 October 2020 - 12:44 AM

Hi y'all!

 

Yep- I'm here with another first CN post by another astrophotography noob asking another "which is the best?" question. lol.gif

 

Jokes aside, I'm actually not entirely new to ap. I've done a little bit with a DSLR and mid-length lenses for a couple years (though not a lot), and I bought myself a cute little William Optics Z61 (1st gen) and flattener from another CNer a couple months ago, and have been using that in with my Canon EOS 70D to produce some results that I've been pleasantly surprised with. My camera is, however, unmodified, and that makes many of the best targets for a scope this size a bit difficult. I don't really want to modify my camera, as I use it a lot for daytime photography as well, and I think that rather than getting cheap DSLR body to modify, it would make more sense to get an entry-level OSC CMOS camera. The better sensitivity of the sensors used in dedicated astronomy cameras, as well as the near-full Ha transmission of the uv/ir cut filter used would, I think, be a nice improvement.

 

After doing some research, it seems that the Sony IMX183 sensor would be a good match for this telescope. Though not quite as big as I'd like, the 1" diagonal isn't too tiny, and the 2.8μm pixels would, with my 360mm fl, yield an image scale of 1.38" per px, which is right in the sweet spot. Now, of course, comes the question of which IMX183 camera to buy. The two main options for lower-priced cameras (My budgent isn't huge right now) seem to be the ZWO ASI183 and the Altair Hypercam 183C. Both have INDI drivers, which is good as I plan to control them using Kstars/Ekos. The Altair advertises a cooling fan and a 4gb onboard DRAM cache; I'm not sure how much of a difference these will make. ZWO cameras seem to have quite the following, though I have seen seen some good reviews of Altair equipment as well. QHY, ZWO, and Altiar also all have TEC cooled versions of these cameras, though those are a bit more money that I'd like to spend.

Do any of you have first and experience with these cameras, or have heard anything about them? Experiences on using them with INDI drivers would be appreciated, as would any general advice on purchasing a first dedicated astronomy camera. If it makes any difference (though I have absolutely no idea why it would), I'm newish to ap, but not to amateur astronomy; I have been observing visually for about 8 or 9 years.

Clear skies,
Gabe

 

Edit: the IMX183 has 2.4μm pixels. 


Edited by Zubenelgenubi17, 26 October 2020 - 01:05 AM.


#2 imtl

imtl

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 1,399
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2016
  • Loc: On earth

Posted 26 October 2020 - 12:48 AM

The Sony IMX183 is a 2.4μm pixel not 2.8.



#3 Zubenelgenubi17

Zubenelgenubi17

    Sputnik

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 28
  • Joined: 31 Jul 2020
  • Loc: Eastern US

Posted 26 October 2020 - 01:03 AM

The Sony IMX183 is a 2.4μm pixel not 2.8.

Good catch! That's a typo in my post; I did use the correct value when calculating, so the image scale of 1.38" per pixel should still be correct. 



#4 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 21,934
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 26 October 2020 - 01:14 AM

Hi y'all!

 

Yep- I'm here with another first CN post by another astrophotography noob asking another "which is the best?" question. lol.gif

 

Jokes aside, I'm actually not entirely new to ap. I've done a little bit with a DSLR and mid-length lenses for a couple years (though not a lot), and I bought myself a cute little William Optics Z61 (1st gen) and flattener from another CNer a couple months ago, and have been using that in with my Canon EOS 70D to produce some results that I've been pleasantly surprised with. My camera is, however, unmodified, and that makes many of the best targets for a scope this size a bit difficult. I don't really want to modify my camera, as I use it a lot for daytime photography as well, and I think that rather than getting cheap DSLR body to modify, it would make more sense to get an entry-level OSC CMOS camera. The better sensitivity of the sensors used in dedicated astronomy cameras, as well as the near-full Ha transmission of the uv/ir cut filter used would, I think, be a nice improvement.

 

After doing some research, it seems that the Sony IMX183 sensor would be a good match for this telescope. Though not quite as big as I'd like, the 1" diagonal isn't too tiny, and the 2.8μm pixels would, with my 360mm fl, yield an image scale of 1.38" per px, which is right in the sweet spot. Now, of course, comes the question of which IMX183 camera to buy. The two main options for lower-priced cameras (My budgent isn't huge right now) seem to be the ZWO ASI183 and the Altair Hypercam 183C. Both have INDI drivers, which is good as I plan to control them using Kstars/Ekos. The Altair advertises a cooling fan and a 4gb onboard DRAM cache; I'm not sure how much of a difference these will make. ZWO cameras seem to have quite the following, though I have seen seen some good reviews of Altair equipment as well. QHY, ZWO, and Altiar also all have TEC cooled versions of these cameras, though those are a bit more money that I'd like to spend.

Do any of you have first and experience with these cameras, or have heard anything about them? Experiences on using them with INDI drivers would be appreciated, as would any general advice on purchasing a first dedicated astronomy camera. If it makes any difference (though I have absolutely no idea why it would), I'm newish to ap, but not to amateur astronomy; I have been observing visually for about 8 or 9 years.

Clear skies,
Gabe

 

Edit: the IMX183 has 2.4μm pixels. 

I have both 183s, from ZWO.  They work fine with my C8 RASA, 400mm F2.  The sweet spot for the camera is short fast scopes, it's more a niche camera than general purpose.  If you're willing to get something else if you get a bigger scope, they're fine.  Otherwise consider a 533 and accept some undersampling.  Not necessarily that bad (I've made nice mages at 2.8, and the image scale gives significantly better signal to noise ratio with the same total imaging time.  snr is just as important as resolution for good images), and curable to some extent with dithering and drizzle.

 

I'm not a masochist, so I use Windows for data acquisition (Linux for processing).  <grin>


Edited by bobzeq25, 26 October 2020 - 01:17 AM.


#5 Stelios

Stelios

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 10,447
  • Joined: 04 Oct 2003
  • Loc: West Hills, CA

Posted 26 October 2020 - 03:15 AM

Just do yourself a favor and do *not* buy the un-cooled version of these cameras. You will save $200 that you will regret every day you own them. Get the -PRO versions (or whatever the Altair equivalent is, if you go that way). Both in terms of noise and ability to take matching darks (which you absolutely need in order to calibrate out the tremendous amp glow of the 183) the difference is night and day. 


  • Ken Sturrock, bobzeq25 and NightBear like this

#6 sg6

sg6

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,243
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2010
  • Loc: Norfolk, UK.

Posted 26 October 2020 - 03:30 AM

Though not quite as big as I'd like, the 1" diagonal isn't too tiny,

The sensor diagonal is 15.8mm not 1". So even less not as big as you would like.

Not sure why ZWO seem to have set a default size of 1" on their small cameras as it is both incorrect and misleading, in many cases.

 

With cameras always check the "real" diagonal by the old Pythagoras theorum.

 

Do agree the WO61's are cute.

Almost too cute to take out on a cold dark night, they might get scared.


Edited by sg6, 26 October 2020 - 03:31 AM.


#7 dghent

dghent

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 808
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2007

Posted 26 October 2020 - 06:57 AM

Consider the QHY294M Pro. It features 48mp on a 4/3 format sensor at 2.315 um per pixel. If you get a longer fl telescope in the future, you can run the camera in locked mode with 11mp @ 4.63um pixels

#8 Zubenelgenubi17

Zubenelgenubi17

    Sputnik

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 28
  • Joined: 31 Jul 2020
  • Loc: Eastern US

Posted 26 October 2020 - 08:34 PM

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far! Buying a cooled camera right out of the gate does make some sense, so I won't be itching to upgrade quite as soon. The 183 is indeed a bit smaller than I had thought, but after some investigation in Stellarium using the fov box, it seems that though I would need to mosaic some targets, others would actually be better captured on the small sensor. The 533 is also an interesting possibility, and the slightly larger pixel size means that it could potentially be useful on slightly longer scopes in the future. Though I like the sound of the qhy294 pro, I'm afraid it's about twice as much money as I'd like to spend right now, especially since I'm also looking at saving for a mount upgrade sometime next year. Out of curiosity, which cameras do y'all pair with your small apos (300-400mm fl)?

#9 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 21,934
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 26 October 2020 - 11:40 PM

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far! Buying a cooled camera right out of the gate does make some sense, so I won't be itching to upgrade quite as soon. The 183 is indeed a bit smaller than I had thought, but after some investigation in Stellarium using the fov box, it seems that though I would need to mosaic some targets, others would actually be better captured on the small sensor. The 533 is also an interesting possibility, and the slightly larger pixel size means that it could potentially be useful on slightly longer scopes in the future. Though I like the sound of the qhy294 pro, I'm afraid it's about twice as much money as I'd like to spend right now, especially since I'm also looking at saving for a mount upgrade sometime next year. Out of curiosity, which cameras do y'all pair with your small apos (300-400mm fl)?

I use my 183s.  Short fast scopes are its niche.



#10 RJF-Astro

RJF-Astro

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 680
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Zeist, Netherlands

Posted 27 October 2020 - 02:55 AM

I use the 183MC mostly on my 200mm Canon. Works great, a nice combination for bigger targets like M31. And the combination can be handled by my Star Adventurer tracker. I might add a 61-72ish apo later on, for both the 183 and 1600.

#11 terry59

terry59

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10,042
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Posted 27 October 2020 - 05:46 AM



Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far! Buying a cooled camera right out of the gate does make some sense, so I won't be itching to upgrade quite as soon. The 183 is indeed a bit smaller than I had thought, but after some investigation in Stellarium using the fov box, it seems that though I would need to mosaic some targets, others would actually be better captured on the small sensor. The 533 is also an interesting possibility, and the slightly larger pixel size means that it could potentially be useful on slightly longer scopes in the future. Though I like the sound of the qhy294 pro, I'm afraid it's about twice as much money as I'd like to spend right now, especially since I'm also looking at saving for a mount upgrade sometime next year. Out of curiosity, which cameras do y'all pair with your small apos (300-400mm fl)?

QHY183M & SV70T

 

get.jpg?insecure



#12 lakeorion

lakeorion

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,620
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2010
  • Loc: Lake Orion MI

Posted 27 October 2020 - 08:12 AM

QHY183M + WO Star 71, QHY CFW3S and small OAG.  Not 'fast' but I image from a red zone suburban driveway.

2020-09-21 NGC 7635 Bubble post.jpg
2020-07-25 Veil HOOpost.jpg
2020-05-30 M13 post.jpg
 

 

 

 


Edited by lakeorion, 27 October 2020 - 08:15 AM.


#13 Stelios

Stelios

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 10,447
  • Joined: 04 Oct 2003
  • Loc: West Hills, CA

Posted 27 October 2020 - 01:44 PM

 Out of curiosity, which cameras do y'all pair with your small apos (300-400mm fl)?

I have used both my ASI183 and ASI1600, and I actually prefer the ASI1600 because of the larger FOV. I drizzle to recover from the undersampling.


  • bobzeq25 likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: astrophotography, CMOS, equipment, imaging



Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics