Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Takahashi coatings

  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 25585

25585

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10,812
  • Joined: 29 Aug 2017
  • Loc: In a valley, in the UK.

Posted 27 October 2020 - 01:17 PM

A seller advertising a pre-owned TOA-130 states "Coating degradation to the front element, this is a known problem with Takahashi cold applied broadband coatings"

 

Both my Taks were bought new & go out for special reasons only. The SW Equinoxes & my TV 85 get used most. Taks show no degradation, but my Takitis may be cured as 130 was the only other one I was interested in.

 

Has any Tak owner here, TOA or any model, had a lens with coating degradation? Do any other makes have coatung degradation or other defects from the manufacturing process used?



#2 BillP

BillP

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,815
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2006
  • Loc: Spotsylvania, VA

Posted 27 October 2020 - 01:35 PM

I've had my TSA-102 for over a decade.  It is my primary scope and take it out in all temp/humidity conditions which range typically from -10 to 90 deg F and humidity rarely under 40% and mostly in the 60-100% range.  And when I take it out on cold evenings can go from a 70 deg inside temp instantly to a 0 deg outside temp.  Not a single issue and the lens still looks brand spanking new grin.gif

 

I have heard of "rumors" about coating issues on pre-1986 fluorite scopes.  Frankly though not unusual to see coating issues after 25 years on many optics.  Also saw the vendor site mentioning this with a 130.  I would not take comments like these to the bank as too many internet "stories" rise to the level of urban legend facts lol.gif  I would recommend you call Land & Sea and ask them what they have seen or know (they are the U.S. Tak maintenance facility). 


Edited by BillP, 27 October 2020 - 01:49 PM.

  • BRCoz, payner, SandyHouTex and 3 others like this

#3 peleuba

peleuba

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,645
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 27 October 2020 - 02:04 PM

A seller advertising a pre-owned TOA-130 states "Coating degradation to the front element, this is a known problem with Takahashi cold applied broadband coatings"

 

Both my Taks were bought new & go out for special reasons only. The SW Equinoxes & my TV 85 get used most. Taks show no degradation, but my Takitis may be cured as 130 was the only other one I was interested in.

 

Has any Tak owner here, TOA or any model, had a lens with coating degradation? Do any other makes have coatung degradation or other defects from the manufacturing process used?

 

 

Never.  And, my TAKS are/were FS152, Sky90, TSA120.  

 

What do you mean by "special reasons only"?  Use them as they were designed. waytogo.gif   Telescopes are not "special occasion" commodities, like my Grandmother's china.  By not using the scopes, you are cheating yourself out of the very thing you bought them for.

 

TAK coatings are good as far as I can tell.  In fact TAK even was at the forefront of coating the Fluorite element.  


Edited by peleuba, 27 October 2020 - 03:11 PM.

  • doctordub, payner, RAKing and 9 others like this

#4 barbie

barbie

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Joined: 28 Jan 2013
  • Loc: Northeast Ohio

Posted 27 October 2020 - 02:18 PM

The coatings on my former 30 + year old FC76 were fine and it was made in 1987!!


  • 25585 likes this

#5 mikeDnight

mikeDnight

    Apollo

  • ****-
  • Posts: 1,267
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2015
  • Loc: Wild Wild West - North West England

Posted 27 October 2020 - 02:31 PM

The only coating issues I've ever seen are from careless ownership. I've never seen or heard of any Tak refractor having faulty coatings. You could always offer the seller a couple of hundred pounds or dollars for his damaged scope, as its pretty worthless with damaged coatings. Then send it back to Tak for recoating. Happy days - and the scope will have a better owner. 


  • ewave and 25585 like this

#6 BillP

BillP

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,815
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2006
  • Loc: Spotsylvania, VA

Posted 27 October 2020 - 03:22 PM

The only coating issues I've ever seen are from careless ownership.

Wait...I thought the owner was never at fault when something goes wrong!  That's what most 20-somethings I come across continue to say lol.gif


Edited by BillP, 27 October 2020 - 03:22 PM.

  • peleuba, BRCoz, doctordub and 5 others like this

#7 csauer52

csauer52

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Joined: 05 Jan 2011
  • Loc: Raleigh, NC

Posted 27 October 2020 - 04:45 PM

I've never heard of this being a "known" problem. I've had a TOA-130 for well over a decade, no issues with coatings on mine. 
 

What year was it manufactured? As previously stated, I'd offer a steep discount and ship it off to Tak Europe to get it recoated.  If you can't get it for a huge discount, I wouldn't touch it. 


  • 25585 likes this

#8 25585

25585

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10,812
  • Joined: 29 Aug 2017
  • Loc: In a valley, in the UK.

Posted 27 October 2020 - 04:53 PM

Never.  And, my TAKS are/were FS152, Sky90, TSA120.  

 

What do you mean by "special reasons only"?  Use them as they were designed. waytogo.gif   Telescopes are not "special occasion" commodities, like my Grandmother's china.  By not using the scopes, you are cheating yourself out of the very thing you bought them for.

 

TAK coatings are good as far as I can tell.  In fact TAK even was at the forefront of coating the Fluorite element.  

As in they cost too much to replace in case of an accident or mishap or random event, so any risk seeming too great, the Taks stay in. 



#9 Nippon

Nippon

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,802
  • Joined: 22 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Central Florida

Posted 27 October 2020 - 05:08 PM

When my Vixen ED103s objective first showed a little dirt I was able to fully enjoy it. When I was a photographer for a daily newspaper it was my older Nikon cameras with a few dings that made the best photographs.  


  • RAKing and Bomber Bob like this

#10 JeremySh

JeremySh

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 04 Jul 2020

Posted 27 October 2020 - 05:11 PM

As in they cost too much to replace in case of an accident or mishap or random event, so any risk seeming too great, the Taks stay in. 

You are joking aren’t you? I must admit you nearly had me there lol.gif


  • doctordub, John Huntley, payner and 4 others like this

#11 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,275
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, USA

Posted 27 October 2020 - 05:29 PM

No coating issues on my 1984 FC-50.  It sits in the shed (in its case!) for days / weeks at a time, so I can grab a few views between clouds; otherwise, I'd have nothing but Display Scopes...


  • RAKing and mikeDnight like this

#12 RAKing

RAKing

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,971
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2007
  • Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula

Posted 27 October 2020 - 05:30 PM

I owned my early model TOA-130 about ten years ago.  I used it in winter, spring, summer, and fall with no issues whatsoever.  IIRC, all of my Taks have the same coatings that Canon uses on their camera lenses and if those things can handle war and peace, my scopes should handle the benign conditions in my backyard.  My 1994 FC-100 still looks brand new!

 

I always want to take my best scope outside every night.  Observing nights are precious to me and I don't want to waste them with anything less than my good stuff.  Why else would I spend the money?  cool.gif

 

Cheers,

 

Ron


  • Scott in NC, 3 i Guy, payner and 7 others like this

#13 JeremySh

JeremySh

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 04 Jul 2020

Posted 27 October 2020 - 06:06 PM

I owned my early model TOA-130 about ten years ago.  I used it in winter, spring, summer, and fall with no issues whatsoever.  IIRC, all of my Taks have the same coatings that Canon uses on their camera lenses and if those things can handle war and peace, my scopes should handle the benign conditions in my backyard.  My 1994 FC-100 still looks brand new!

 

I always want to take my best scope outside every night.  Observing nights are precious to me and I don't want to waste them with anything less than my good stuff.  Why else would I spend the money?  cool.gif

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

Ron you are either very brave or foolhardy. Your Tak belongs indoors, tucked up in a blanket grin.gif


  • doctordub, noisejammer, RAKing and 2 others like this

#14 payner

payner

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,222
  • Joined: 22 Mar 2007
  • Loc: Bluegrass & Cumberland Valley Regions, Kentucky

Posted 27 October 2020 - 06:29 PM

Wow, when I buy a telescope, nice shoes, vehicle, expensive eyepieces, nice piece of furniture, and on and on, it is used for as intended. Otherwise, it is a dishonor to the design team, those who figure, polish, collimate, work in that hot, dangerous sand casting environment (a dying art), put the telescope together, with pride work and rework the focuser (I know many hate Tak focusers--to each their own) and get it to market.

I had rather something happen using it than putting it in the case and only admiring it. It is a tool. Treat it with respect and care and enjoy!

 

PS: The lens on my FS-152 made in 2004 was as beautiful when it left my hands about nine months ago as the day I picked it up from Paul (10 years prior)--I used and respected the quality of those lenses and OTA every chance I got.


  • peleuba, Scott in NC, RAKing and 2 others like this

#15 BRCoz

BRCoz

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2005
  • Loc: Moreno Valley, CA

Posted 27 October 2020 - 06:29 PM

FS102 from 2001 no issues with the coatings.  It has been out in 22° and warm nights in the desert.  

I am the only owner.  


  • Scott in NC and RAKing like this

#16 Scott in NC

Scott in NC

    Refractor Fanatic

  • *****
  • Administrators
  • Posts: 33,215
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2005
  • Loc: NC

Posted 27 October 2020 - 07:19 PM

I always want to take my best scope outside every night.  Observing nights are precious to me and I don't want to waste them with anything less than my good stuff.  Why else would I spend the money?  cool.gif

Exactly! :ubetcha:


  • RAKing and SkyRanger like this

#17 Scott in NC

Scott in NC

    Refractor Fanatic

  • *****
  • Administrators
  • Posts: 33,215
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2005
  • Loc: NC

Posted 27 October 2020 - 07:21 PM

FS102 from 2001 no issues with the coatings.

Same here with my FS102 from 2001, and it’s also been outside in widely varying temperatures.


  • BRCoz, RAKing and JeremySh like this

#18 alvin58

alvin58

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 142
  • Joined: 15 Apr 2006
  • Loc: North Shore Lake Superior

Posted 27 October 2020 - 07:34 PM

How interesting. I just purchased a FOA-60 and finally realizing a quality telescope had the same thoughts of using it in the"nice months " of the year only. Payner- how true. They are tools to be used and through use can they be appreciated and ( hopefully) grow to be a useful joy. I will return mine to the unheated garage and start using this winter.


  • payner, RAKing and JeremySh like this

#19 SandyHouTex

SandyHouTex

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,249
  • Joined: 02 Jun 2009
  • Loc: Houston, Texas, USA

Posted 27 October 2020 - 08:05 PM

A seller advertising a pre-owned TOA-130 states "Coating degradation to the front element, this is a known problem with Takahashi cold applied broadband coatings"

 

Both my Taks were bought new & go out for special reasons only. The SW Equinoxes & my TV 85 get used most. Taks show no degradation, but my Takitis may be cured as 130 was the only other one I was interested in.

 

Has any Tak owner here, TOA or any model, had a lens with coating degradation? Do any other makes have coatung degradation or other defects from the manufacturing process used?

I would like someone to explain how coatings could be applied in a cold fashion.  From everything I’ve seen and read, optics go in a vacuum chamber, and then the coatings are heated to evaporation and then deposited on the optical surface, just like aluminum is deposited on a mirror.


  • RAKing likes this

#20 sunnyday

sunnyday

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11,276
  • Joined: 23 Sep 2019
  • Loc: the Canadian nebula .

Posted 27 October 2020 - 08:14 PM

i just bought mine i may be able to tell in 10, 15 years.


  • csauer52 and mikeDnight like this

#21 barbie

barbie

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Joined: 28 Jan 2013
  • Loc: Northeast Ohio

Posted 27 October 2020 - 08:56 PM

When I had my Taks, I USED them. Now that I'm down to just one scope( a Skywatcher 72mm ED apo) I USE it too!! I've extensively used all of my scopes since I began the hobby in 1970!!  There's too many celestial wonders out there to just let a scope sit unused!! Whether a Tak, Skywatcher, Explore Scientific, etc., get out and use it!! They're all excellent scopes!!!


  • peleuba, Scott in NC, payner and 2 others like this

#22 daniel_h

daniel_h

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,569
  • Joined: 08 Mar 2008
  • Loc: VIC, Australia

Posted 27 October 2020 - 09:38 PM

Not so much cold but You could have a coating applied from a chemical tablet, ie lens in container, coating becones a gas at room temp in air, the gas coats the lenses, or cold b low emp eg 40-50 ever, not oven temp, doesn’t need vacuum environ, a plastic bag would suffice

Have seen coating damage from an observer being too frivolous with bug repellent, the gas deposits on the toa130 next to him & destroyed it

I would like someone to explain how coatings could be applied in a cold fashion. From everything I’ve seen and read, optics go in a vacuum chamber, and then the coatings are heated to evaporation and then deposited on the optical surface, just like aluminum is deposited on a mirror.


Edited by daniel_h, 27 October 2020 - 09:40 PM.


#23 balu01

balu01

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 417
  • Joined: 04 May 2016
  • Loc: Las Vegas NV

Posted 28 October 2020 - 12:58 AM

my scopes might be too young but none so far.
I think coatings are damaged by owners trying to use chemicals that should never touch a lens surface.
I have some older camera lenses that I have not played nice with , still look brand new.

#24 Deadlake

Deadlake

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 52
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2020

Posted 28 October 2020 - 04:21 AM

A seller advertising a pre-owned TOA-130 states "Coating degradation to the front element, this is a known problem with Takahashi cold applied broadband coatings"

 

Both my Taks were bought new & go out for special reasons only. The SW Equinoxes & my TV 85 get used most. Taks show no degradation, but my Takitis may be cured as 130 was the only other one I was interested in.

 

Has any Tak owner here, TOA or any model, had a lens with coating degradation? Do any other makes have coatung degradation or other defects from the manufacturing process used?

I was tempted by the above advert too, until I saw the statement about coating degradation on the front element. I've seen a nearly new TOA-130 adverted by a different Tak dealer and thats over twice the price as the above, so make me think...



#25 peleuba

peleuba

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,645
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 28 October 2020 - 08:26 AM

As in they cost too much to replace in case of an accident or mishap or random event, so any risk seeming too great, the Taks stay in. 

 

Yes, and to continue along this line of thinking...  Life is risky (and fragile) - you don't get out alive.

 

If worried, do what we do here in the U.S. - get it insured.  This is what I have done.

 

Please don't take this as being argumentative and my final thought is this...  I have gotten so much pleasure from my astronomy equipment.  Using it in only on the best nights under the best conditions would have cheated me of many an observing session.  I sometimes feel guilty that I cannot get out and use my stuff more then I do.


  • Paul G, Scott in NC, RAKing and 1 other like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics