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First two eyepieces for a 10" f4.7 Orion XT10 dobsonian

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#51 ForTozs

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:43 AM

I wish I could, but I missed the annual star party in my area this year. It may be a long time until I can get the opportunity. I will say, I certainly feel limited by the fov on my cheap eyepieces. I am seeing good reviews of the APM 100s, but I haven't found much in terms of a direct comparison to a Nagler. Supposedly Ethos clones? I am definitely intrigued, but an extremely wide field also doesn't seem as important to me in a med mag piece as it would for a low mag piece. However, you're talking to someone that has basically only looked at the sky through cheap eyepieces over the years.



#52 ForTozs

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:48 AM

How light polluted are we talking about?

Not rediculously light polluted. I don't live in a city or anything, but I live in a suburban neighborhood that's not terribly far from a bunch of tacky used car lots and a Walmart Neighborhood Market. I certainly can't see the Magellanic Clouds from my house. I can spot the constellations though. A big part of my problem is some nearby street lights.

 

I'm in or near the red on this map. https://cires.colora.../artificial-sky


Edited by ForTozs, 22 November 2020 - 12:52 AM.


#53 f74265a

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:50 AM

Buy once, because once you buy it, you're out of money!


Ha. This is without doubt objectively true!
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#54 spaceoddity

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:33 PM

I wish I could, but I missed the annual star party in my area this year. It may be a long time until I can get the opportunity. I will say, I certainly feel limited by the fov on my cheap eyepieces. I am seeing good reviews of the APM 100s, but I haven't found much in terms of a direct comparison to a Nagler. Supposedly Ethos clones? I am definitely intrigued, but an extremely wide field also doesn't seem as important to me in a med mag piece as it would for a low mag piece. However, you're talking to someone that has basically only looked at the sky through cheap eyepieces over the years.I agree that in medium 

I agree that in medium powers, an extremely wide field isn't as important. An 82 degree eyepiece is more than plenty, and even the 68-70 degree eyepieces are nice to look through. With a manually driven/non-tracking scope such a s a dob, I think you will appreciate the wide fov most at high powers. That is when the object drifts through pretty quickly. A wider field means less nudging and more observing, and also makes locating the object easier. You also want a low power ep to give you a large fov for scanning, and for those very large objects like M31, large open clusters(pleiades/hyades/double cluster) and large nebulae like the veil. Doesn't have to be 82 or 100 degrees though, just so the exit pupil is under 7 and it gives you close to the max fov your telescope is capable of.

 

You are right about the spend once philosophy. A minimalist line up of high quality eyepieces is a much better investment and cheaper in the long run than buying a trying a ton of lower priced eyepieces. Of course there's always more expensive and slightly better and that all depends on the size of the wallet. 

 

I think it's safe to say that the APM, lunt, explore scientific and other 100 degree eyepieces are ethos clones and the multitude of 82 degree - ES82, Meade UWA, etc. are Nagler clones although there are differences for sure. Televue tends to be the leader in the development of wide angle eyepieces. You can't go wrong with Televue other than the price but you can always save buying used. People tend to take good care of them. I just bought a used 16mm T5 that looks mint. Can't wait to give it a spin. 

 

In my experience with the same scope as yours, I bought and used the Meade UWA's, SWA's and ES82's about a decade ago when they were new and cheaper(on sale frequently), used them for years and enjoyed them very much. They're good ep's and I didn't feel the need to go wider or spend more money. In fact 100 degrees seemed ridiculous to me, but when I had a some extra change and read about the APM 100's and the price wasn't astronomical(pun intended), curiosity got the better of me and I ordered the 9 and 13. I love them. They are comfortable to look through, wide(obviously) and sharp. I also like that they come with a 2" skirt so I don't have to mess with an adapter when changing ep's. I'm now patiently waiting for the 7mm to hit the market. I think that will make my line up complete and then I will decide which of my 82/68 degree ep's to hold on to or sell.


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#55 ForTozs

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 04:47 PM

I agree that in medium powers, an extremely wide field isn't as important. An 82 degree eyepiece is more than plenty, and even the 68-70 degree eyepieces are nice to look through.

 

I also like that they come with a 2" skirt so I don't have to mess with an adapter when changing ep's.

Glad for your perspective. Not to keep kicking the dead horse here, but this has me wondering if a 14 mm Delos wouldn't be a better choice than the Nagler. It's only $30 more. On one hand, some suggest the Delos may edge out the 13 mm Nagler in optical quality and eye relief. One the other hand, if I'm not wanting to be frequently switching between 2" and 1.25" eyepieces, I can see the value of a little extra TFOV in terms of finding things. Switching between the 2" and 1.25" does have me a bit concerned. Does Televue or anyone make 2" skirts that can be easily added to an eyepiece?


Edited by ForTozs, 22 November 2020 - 04:48 PM.


#56 ForTozs

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 05:09 PM

Hmm. It appears this would work for that purpose as well as make the 14 mm Delos parfocal with other 1.25" Televue eyepieces.

 

https://www.televue....=23&Tab=_intrav



#57 f74265a

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 05:22 PM

In travel adapter roughly does do that for 14 Delos
The in travel adapter is a bit awkward to use. I recall it attaches to the eyepiece using a screw with an Allen wrench.
Or you could put the high hat adapter on the 13 nagler with the set screw
14 Delos is arguably a bit sharper but at a substantial cost of fov. There is no bad choice between 13 nagler and 14 Delos if the observer doesn’t use glasses. Flip a coin
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#58 PKDfan

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 05:29 PM

Hi ForTozs, delos beats nagler in eye relief, better in faster scopes, and optical quality with the proviso that narrow naglers field to same and not much diff.(imo). Nagler has that field which was game changer and good to great optical quality at least thats how I see it.

CS & GS
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#59 spaceoddity

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Posted 24 November 2020 - 08:27 PM

Glad for your perspective. Not to keep kicking the dead horse here, but this has me wondering if a 14 mm Delos wouldn't be a better choice than the Nagler. It's only $30 more. On one hand, some suggest the Delos may edge out the 13 mm Nagler in optical quality and eye relief. One the other hand, if I'm not wanting to be frequently switching between 2" and 1.25" eyepieces, I can see the value of a little extra TFOV in terms of finding things. Switching between the 2" and 1.25" does have me a bit concerned. Does Televue or anyone make 2" skirts that can be easily added to an eyepiece?

2-1.25 adapters like the one that came with your scope are fairly cheap and they can be kept on any 1.25 eyepiece to make switching a little quicker. It is nice that some 1.25 inch wide angle ep's come with  the 2" skirt and I just leave them on since my focusers are 2". I don't own a 13 Nagler or 14 Delos but I wouldn't spend more on a 72 degree eyepiece than an 82 degree(with both being premium ep's.). The 13 Nagler is highly regarded as 1 of the best in the line so any optical quality difference would probably be miniscule at best. If you wear eyeglasses for viewing, then eye relief becomes a very important consideration. I don't so it isn't a huge factor in my decision. For me, the 13 APM XWA is one I wouldn't part with for anything. I love it although I'm sure there are better - probably not for $250 though. I think the ep's you are looking at are excellent quality and you will be happy with them. Good luck in your choice.




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