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Extreme repairing - help needed

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#1 RFNS13

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 04:50 PM

Hello, and thanks for letting me join this community!

 

I'll try to make things as short and clear as possible. I never had the chance to buy a telescope, and haven't used one since i was a kid. More than once in the last couple of years i've decided to buy one, but the nicer options were a little to expensive for me. Well, this afternoon while walking home i found one, carefully disposed by the recycle point and brought it home. It's a reflector type, and that's pretty much all i know about telescopes in general. It's in a fairly bad condition, and it seems to have taken quite a knock before.... The tripod is quite fine, apart for some minor corrosion on the bolts, but nothing that can't be cleaned off. Having a peek inside, both mirrors are intact but dusty. The eye piece is also intact, but seems to have some kind of condensation formed on its lens, and there's an external part (viewfinder?) that takes a CR2032 battery but since the power switch seems to be broken, i couldn't test if it works. Looking through the eyepiece, there's nothing. Complete black-out

 

So.... i was wondering if there's any hope of fixing this, even if just for the fun/thrill of it. And if so, how? I have some basic tools around, but near-zero knowledge about this kind of equipment, so any help would be much appreciated!

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#2 Waynosworld

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 05:17 PM

Lets figure out why you cannot see anything but black, when you take the eyepiece out and look into the hole can you see the small mirror?

That secondary mirror has to be facing you at a 45 degree angle pointed down and you should be able to see the primary mirror at the end of the tube, can you see the primary mirror?



#3 RFNS13

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 05:25 PM

Lets figure out why you cannot see anything but black, when you take the eyepiece out and look into the hole can you see the small mirror?

That secondary mirror has to be facing you at a 45 degree angle pointed down and you should be able to see the primary mirror at the end of the tube, can you see the primary mirror?

Thank you for your help! I'm assuming the primary mirror is the big one on the back, and the secondary is the slanted one below the eyepiece. As i don't know what the rest of the parts are called, here's a picture i just took while pointing the front of the telescope at the kitchen light. Looking inside, i can see both the light being reflected, that "circular with 3 spokes" piece which is at the front, and the reflection of the phone itself (it's the black vertical spot)

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#4 Waynosworld

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 05:48 PM

I cannot really see anything from that photo other than what might be the primary mirror as that photo is not really focused, I just tried taking the same photo and cannot see much either.

Looking thru the eyepiece hole you should see the secondary mirror facing you, the primary mirror at the bottom should be centered in the secondary mirror and you should be able to see light from the end of the tube, if you cannot see light in the primary, then maybe the telescope tube is bent so bad the primary is pointed off to the side, in that case you will likely have to take it apart and  make the telescope tube round again.

It is really hard to do this over the computer unless you know what things are and how they work.

Without basic collimation tools this could be very hard to fix.

Do not use a rag or sponge to clean the mirrors, do not touch the mirrors with anything but water to rinse the dust/dirt off for now, to clean the mirrors you need a clean sink, a gallon of distilled water, and some Joy or the like liquid dish soap, there are some links on how to clean the mirrors, but first you need to be able to see something thru the eyepiece



#5 RFNS13

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 06:07 PM

Yeah, sorry about the image quality, but it's a really hard shot for a camera phone... anyway, removing the eyepiece and peeking down where it would sit, i can clearly see a mirror, that's reflecting the big one, which in turn is reflecting any light the telescope's pointed at, it's a really blurry reflection, but i'm guessing that's normal. I have no idea, though, if the mirrors are centered, as i don't see any markings or guidelines on them.

 

On the other hand, i think the eyepiece itself it's a mess. It definitely has condensation inside, probably from being left outside in this weather, and what seems to be a spot/drop within the lenses... i haven't tried to clean it yet (except for the detachable rubber piece, that i washed for health reasons)

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Edited by RFNS13, 21 November 2020 - 06:08 PM.


#6 Waynosworld

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 06:23 PM

Are there any names on the telescope to tell you who made it?

Clean the eyepiece with a q-tip and some rubbing alcohol or some other eyeglass cleaner.

You should be able to point the telescope at a brightly illuminated wall or ceiling and look thru the hole where the eyepiece goes and see the wall/ceiling, if you cannot see them then either the mirrors are too dirty or the telescope tube too bent, or a mixture of all combined.

I am kind of a newbie here, so I may not be asking the right things, when you set the tube down on the end where the dent is does it sit straight up and down or does it lean?


Edited by Waynosworld, 21 November 2020 - 06:24 PM.


#7 RFNS13

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 06:42 PM

Yeah, i was just trying to clean the eyepiece with alcohol. The thing is, it seems to be made of 2 elements (2 lenses) and some of the moist is caught between them, where the qtip can't reach.. or anything, really. But it's a lot better now indeed.

 

Meanwhile, messing around with the rest of it, i took out the front cover and can now see clearly inside.. the tube is not badly bent, there's a noticable hump on each side, but it's still straight. Lot's of dust and what seems to be a spider web on the big mirror, but nothing broken from what i can tell. Again, i can't tell if they're aligned or not

Light reflects both ways: while pointed at the front, can be seen through the eyepiece but just as a blurry glare, and when poited at the eyepice, can be seen reflected on the main mirror (the last pic). 

Taking it out to the balcony and pointing it at something obvious like a street lamp, i can make it out with the eyepiece attached but it's just a blurry mess

 

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#8 Waynosworld

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 06:53 PM

If it had a front cover on it all you be able to see is black, look thru it now without the front cover on it, now what do you see?

Is the eyepiece hole 1.25"/32mm?

 

Too me it looks like a cheap department store telescope, but I don't know that.

 

Does that eyepiece unscrew to where you can clean both sides of the lens?

 

That primary mirror looks clean enough to be able to see something if the secondary mirror is aimed at it properly.


Edited by Waynosworld, 21 November 2020 - 06:54 PM.


#9 PETER DREW

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 07:14 PM

It seems that you have it complete enough to be salvageable. I'm pretty sure that the wingnuts holding the three legged small mirror support should be on the outside of the tube. t

#10 Sheol

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 07:15 PM

           Not sure, but that first pic seemed to show your secondary way out of alignment. 

           I'm going to guess this is another store brand scope, but from what you first described, nothing that could not be saved. Though you might need to get a new set of EPs. Just get 2 EPs & a 2X Barlow to start with. Also, get in touch with Orion or Meade or Celestron. You need a better mount. That looks just... barely adequate. If that. You'll have some shaking when moving the scope.

 

 

       Clear Skies,

           Matt.



#11 SeattleScott

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 07:17 PM

Yeah the key is you need to collimate the scope. Especially with that big hit it took. You will likely need a collimation tool like a Cheshire sight tube or laser collimator.

It looks pretty cheap but it might be worth a $50 laser to get it working. Or maybe not. But you could use the laser with a future scope if you decide to upgrade.

Scott

#12 MitchAlsup

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 08:53 PM

The first thing to do is to get rid of all the threaded fasteners that came with the scope. A quick trip to Home Despot (or similar) can procure bolts made with real metal and properly formed threads. Screws, bolts, washers, and nuts should be replaced.

 

Secondly, make a round piece of wood the size of the insides of the tube (and after having removed all the optics) use the wooden form to support the interior of the tube while you apply lots of very gentle blows with a ball peen hammer to get the metal to release the creased. 

 

While out of the tube, give the optics a nice gentle wash, finishing with distilled water, set on edge to dry, and reassemble carefully.

 

Then come back here and we can teach you how to collimate the scope.



#13 RobertMaples

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 11:31 PM

Don't know if it helps or not, but that is almost certainly an Edu Science Astro Nova T1000HD, definitely a cheap department store scope.  Here's the manual for it: http://02d3287.netso...60D-English.pdf

 

Funny thing about that scope, I've seen it described as having a 1000mm focal length (which would mean that it would almost have to be a Bird-Jones style with a corrector lens in the focuser) and as having a 500mm focal length.  The manual doesn't even say, even though it talks about using the telescope focal length and the eyepiece focal length to calculate the magnification.


Edited by RobertMaples, 21 November 2020 - 11:33 PM.


#14 Waynosworld

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:24 PM

In the photo you took looking down the focus hole, I was asking if the secondary mirror was pointed at you, what I need to know now is if there is a glass lens somewhere in the focus tube between the camera and the secondary mirror? 

001.JPG

 

Thank you for your help! I'm assuming the primary mirror is the big one on the back, and the secondary is the slanted one below the eyepiece. As i don't know what the rest of the parts are called, here's a picture i just took while pointing the front of the telescope at the kitchen light. Looking inside, i can see both the light being reflected, that "circular with 3 spokes" piece which is at the front, and the reflection of the phone itself (it's the black vertical spot)


Edited by Waynosworld, 22 November 2020 - 12:25 PM.

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#15 RFNS13

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 04:30 PM

Wow guys, thanks for all the replies and support, what a community!
 

In the photo you took looking down the focus hole, I was asking if the secondary mirror was pointed at you, what I need to know now is if there is a glass lens somewhere in the focus tube between the camera and the secondary mirror? 

attachicon.gif001.JPG

Regarding your diagram, no, there's no glass or anything there. Removing the eyepiece leaves just an empty hole to the secondary mirror.

 

 

Don't know if it helps or not, but that is almost certainly an Edu Science Astro Nova T1000HD, definitely a cheap department store scope.  Here's the manual for it: http://02d3287.netso...60D-English.pdf

 

Funny thing about that scope, I've seen it described as having a 1000mm focal length (which would mean that it would almost have to be a Bird-Jones style with a corrector lens in the focuser) and as having a 500mm focal length.  The manual doesn't even say, even though it talks about using the telescope focal length and the eyepiece focal length to calculate the magnification.

Yep, did a check on the EAN barcode, and that's exactly it. Sold by no other than Toys'r'us! lol.gif 

Anyway, UPDATE: i figured out why i couldn't see anything last night, the image was just too dim to be seen. After removing the front cover (referred to as "dust cover" on the manual) it seems to be working as expected. So i spent about an hour cleaning it up, didn't touch the mirrors and i got my first sight of the moon craters! The image is surprisingly good, for a toy, although it's a pain to keep it steady, as the body itself, where the tripod secures to, is soft as a pepsi can. And the viewfinder is busted... But hey, for a trash find, i don't think it's bad at all! I even took some photos, but the image looked way better than the pictures

 

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#16 Waynosworld

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:29 PM

I am surprised it works, seems like there would be a corrector lens in there, but you have a telescope now.

I would supply some extra support on the outside of the tube where it is mounted to the tripod if it that thin, I myself would take the dent out also, but use it for a while and try not to make it worse.

As for cleaning the mirrors, watch this short video Jon Isaacs told me to watch, it works great.

https://youtu.be/9Y8xFnXFVGQ

 

Keep in mind if the mirror looks clean enough then leave it alone, as if you remove the mirror you will have to collimate the telescope when you put it back together and you need the tools(laser/collimation cap) and you need to understand how to collimate it, if it works after getting that huge dent in it then read up on collimating before you take it apart.


Edited by Waynosworld, 22 November 2020 - 06:35 PM.


#17 RobertMaples

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 12:59 PM

Glad you got it working.  If it's working without a corrector lens in the focuser then it is not a Bird-Jones design (which is a good thing, most commercial ones have major issues) and likely has a 500mm focal length.



#18 MitchAlsup

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Posted 24 November 2020 - 06:30 PM

That smear is a problem in collimation in that the secondary is not intercepting the whole of the light cone from the primary.




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