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Observing with Ethos/Nikon HW vs Delite/Delos

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#1 hakann

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 10:53 AM

I was observing yesterday in the Starstructure/Lockwood 30” f/3.6 scope here in Sweden.

 

I has my Ethos series and the Nikon HW as usual.
Sky did clear up at 10 but it was moister but it got better under the night.
SQM was 21.2 at the best and seeing was ‘sub well’ and it’s not that clear ( typical Sweden in fall )
30” is nice bit it really don’t help out.
Mirror is all Ok and MagX did hold up ok at +200X but beyond that the stars get fuzzy.
Trapezium I saw the E star and as I know where the F star I saw it, and lower MagX get it more easy.
But the sky is to soft for ex Holmberg 9 and se components in the Andromeda parachute ( but I saw both this object's but barley, as in a good 30" and good sky it should be no issue see them and atleast 2 components in the parachute )

 

 

Question ;
One new thing here for me.
I had bought the Delite 7 mm last year to see faint objects to try see if less glass do help from the Ethos.
But I never did like that EP.
I really enjoy the Ethos and Nikon HW EP.
I’m 55 and use reading glasses and has no eye issues and I think a 5.5 mm pupil.
I use no eye guard on this EP.
-I use them rolled down, as if up I narrow the field = can’t see the edge.

We had a Delos 8 mm for test ( used in M1 ) and it's like my Delite 7 mm ( I can't observe in those EP ) and I don't know why.
Hard set focus and it can get totally black, but in the Ethos I’ll just swim around = never a issue.
Several here used my Ethos has issues with them and most has the eye guard up, and still they has hard use them and many can’t get the idea of 100 degree field.
All I can say, no matter of magX I like the field.
Some has said the Delos is a hair more crisp than the Ethos, but I can’t say that is the fact for me, anyway.


Edited by hakann, 22 November 2020 - 12:51 PM.


#2 eyeoftexas

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 11:16 AM

I have the Delite 11mm.  The Delite gives a very nice view, but I rarely use it visually in my XX12g because I find the eye relief to be too long.  I have trouble finding the exact position needed to see the full field of view.  I stick to my ES 82° eyepieces as I find I can easily find the full field of view and hold it in place.  To each his own.



#3 f74265a

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 11:21 AM

What position or positions did you try with Delos and delite eyecups that move up and down? I understand some like them all the way out if no glasses. I prefer about 1/3 way out with no glasses. I love ethos and hw and use rubber eyecups up to help me never touch the lens. I do think the 10 Delos is slightly-meaning not much-sharper than 10 ethos in tv 85 (obviously a far cry from your 30 inch equipment). But ethos/hw experience is completely different than Delos/delite. I own most ethos, Delos and delite plus 1 hw and prefer the ethos/hw experience

#4 hakann

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:01 PM

I has try several positions in my Delite and try get see the full field in a day light by adjust it.
Neither position do work really well for me.
It’s a mess find the eye position.
Yesterday with the Delos I had it up maybe 2/3 but did not find a good way and they got black and I had to adjust the eye position.
In a Ethos I'll just lay eye and there it is..
When I bought this EP from Don I had really no clue but as tested the Ethos 21 in Mel's 13" scope I decided go for it and I collected the series over some years.
Now after testing some EP I'm thankful it fit my eyes.

 

Yesterday we tested a Baader 13 mm ( do not know the series ) but the crisp from Ethos 13 was huge.
One strange thing as last year at OSP I used Delos in Ed Allen’s fast 24" Elvira and my first light was at Andromeda and I had no issue. ( strange )
It was a WOW I can say aswell  ;-)
I did like test my Nikon HW 17/14 mm in his scope but Ed had the Sips to his EP so we could not get the Nikon focus.
Ed explained 'in his eyes' he had no use for Ethos as he did not like rotate the eye.
Ok, this is personal but I like the field view, but most it is the easy observing ( for me anyway )
The Naglers I has never really like either.
If the sky is decent and I use some other older TV narrower EP and get back to Ethos is always a wow ( come home feeling ) for me, and it's related to the crisp and the ‘feeling’.
But as some has problem whit them ( actually I hear more issues ) for others that they is good or a 'wow'.


Edited by hakann, 22 November 2020 - 12:06 PM.


#5 f74265a

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:15 PM

It sounds like the Delos and delite are just not good fits for you. Fortunately you can get most of your money back by selling them. And, since ethos and hw are outstanding, there is no reason at all for you to need anything else at the focal lengths covered by ethos and hw!

#6 hakann

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:25 PM

Yes, correct but I was into why.


Edited by hakann, 22 November 2020 - 12:46 PM.


#7 f74265a

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:45 PM

Yes, correct but I was into why.


I’m going to guess, given that you say you like to get close to your ethos with cups down that you are getting too close to the lens with the noticeably longer eye relief delite and Delos and so are not viewing at the optimal focus point

#8 hakann

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 12:57 PM

Yes that might be the case.
Even if I'm not totally against the lens on eye on Ethos I prefer guard rolled down as described why.
Then the issue why most don't like the Ethos or the Nikon HW is another story.
They could had another way their eyes works, or just don't like 100 degree EP.
I think the Nikon HW has such a nice 'tone' but tested in a 22" at OSP some said the Nikon was wipe the Delos away ( 13 mm and Nikon 14 mm ) in crisp ( aka = more stars ) but some said Delos was way sharper - but I did not think so.
The 17 mm is a outstanding EP, as the 14 is more or less like the Ethos 13.
I really recommend people test that one.


Edited by hakann, 22 November 2020 - 12:59 PM.


#9 f74265a

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:11 PM

The 17 hw unfortunately is too heavy for my equipment and I went with the much lighter 17 ethos instead for that reason. I use the 12.5 hw and it too is close to the 13 ethos. I think the 12.5 hw is better (at a much higher price point). However, for little more than variety, I use both the 12.5 hw and the 13 ethos from time to time

#10 hakann

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:39 PM

I has also the 12.5/10 but the standout is the 17 mm.

The 14 is over 900 grams and I can use it less a P2 ( some might can't )

Ethos 13 is near 600 gram.

Good with the Starstructure it don't care on a 1 gram EP or a 1 kg EP.

I will keep my Delite 7 mm and use it for some objects less a coma corrector, but I will not get more of them.

What I need is a 40" primary at LaPalma  ;-)



#11 noisejammer

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:28 PM

Hakann, your 30" scope would be at 392x.

 

From your latitude - I'm guessing Stockholm (60°) - M42 never rises higher than 24° above the horizon.

 

Eye placement aside, is your sky really that stable & transparent?

 

Is there any difference if you look vertically?


Edited by noisejammer, 22 November 2020 - 06:28 PM.
corrected figures basd on Hakann's location

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#12 hakann

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:54 PM

Yes over Stockholm but not that close, over 60 degree.
What do you mean 392X ? ( Are you talking about Trapezium ?
In the 30" scope that mean 8 mm EP. Stars was very fuzzy so more easy see the 2 extra stars at lower mag.
We took Trapezium and Horsehead when it was as high position.
Funny thing the Horsehead really stood out vs ex LaPalma with a 25" and the sky on Athos ( west side at 900 M ) was 21.7 ( normally 21.5 - 21.8 )
Mule could not be seen from LaPalma, but here it was clear ( so at this sky - it did amaze me ! )
I has never seen the Horsehead in a 18" before here ( this location ).
I learned that object on LaPalma 3 years ago in a 20".
In the 30" it was easy yesterday ( very easy ) Nikon 17 HW and Astronomiks HB ( P2 )
In LaPalma at December Orion is way higher, Orion never really get high here.
Sky here is often way to soft but.. if polar winds come down clear it up it can be decent if one is at a dark place.
But to move a heavy Dob or this 30" is not that easy for Many resons.

Edited by hakann, 23 November 2020 - 05:33 AM.

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#13 noisejammer

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:40 PM

Sorry, I'm confused. It sounded like you were using the 30" to view the Trapezium. Under excellent conditions, I've observed the E & F and detected the G & H stars using my TOA150. ( I think this was at about 220x while binoviewing.) The E & F stars should be easy in your scope.

 

Yes - I calculated the magnification for your 7 mm eyepiece in the 30" f/3.6. I have also corrected the altitude that M42 rises above your horizon. Even 24° is very low. It seems odd to be using a 7 or 8 mm eyepiece in such a large scope - these would normally be reserved for the very best seeing imaginable .... something that you seldom find close to the horizon.



#14 hakann

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:54 PM

I observed Trapezium whit Nikon HW 17 and 14 mm.
I did try go higher but as I said it was more easy se E/F star witl lower mag.
To low, to soft sky and 30” app make it hard.

#15 Kunama

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:58 PM

For me the Delos range is the pick of the offerings from TellyView.  The AFoV suits me best and I find they are the sharpest of the TV eyepieces, so I sold the Naglers, Ethoses and DeLites and now have the full Delos lineup......

 

For me the outer edges of the Ethos were wasted ......


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#16 hakann

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 05:31 AM

Yes, we all has personal ways what we like vs design, but my main idea of thread was whats cause this issue for me.
It must be the Delos and Delites had to long eye relifs.
I know people wear glasses don't like to use the Ethos less the eye guard is upp.

If the Delos is sharper than the Ethos.
-Well not as I see it and I think I read test they was not, but if it must be almost equal.
I was at M1 and from Delos ( no CC ) to CC and Ethos 10 and said to my self - I’m home and thank myself I did not bought the Delos series ;-))

Don Pensack told me as I was into that before, as no need, so I thank him for that even if he sell EP.

And the Delos is half the price of the Ethos, but more glass and technology behind 100 degree vs 72 degree might play a role.


Edited by hakann, 23 November 2020 - 11:14 AM.


#17 noisejammer

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 08:06 AM

Hakann, I've re-read your original post and based on my experience with the 6mm and 10mm Delos, I think I understand your question.

 

I also use reading glasses but do not require them to observe. I find that my Delos eyepieces work best if I extend the eye guards to the end then retract it a few millimetres and lock it. This is because these eyepieces are designed to allow use with glasses.

 

Unless you use the eye guard extended, it is difficult to position the pupil of your eye correctly. Since you are using a large Dob and are probably standing when you observe, this will be even more true.



#18 hakann

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:17 AM

The only time a Delos or Delite EP has really worked for me was in Ed Allens f/2.7 24" at Andromeda.




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