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Binocular choice

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#1 Cancri

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 09:51 AM

Hello,

I would like to buy a pair of binoculars. Budged is about 300 Euro and I am looking at a 20x80.

The options I found so far are "Oberwerk Deluxe III CF", "APM 20x80 ED" (non MS) and perhaps the "Orion 20x80 GiantView ED".

I researched and the Oberwerk unit is generally praised, but the APM brand is considered a tier higher than Oberwerk. However, I found as good as no information on the APM model in question (the non MS version that is), so I wonder if it would be a good choice. Other than that I see no other options for such a pair within that frame of budged.

Do you folks have any more suggestions regarding 20x80 binoculars? I'd appreciate very much.



#2 Sandy Swede

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 09:54 AM

You would be using these on a tripod, right?



#3 Cancri

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 10:01 AM

I would, yes. I will look into tripods later then.



#4 Cestus

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 03:29 PM

I have the Obies and like them, but I hear good things about APMs. You win either way.



#5 sevenofnine

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 07:20 PM

I had the Oberwerk 20x80's. They were very sharp but also very heavy. They require a heavy duty professional tripod/head. Better yet, a stout parallelogram mount to sit by a zero gravity chair if you're going to view the night sky.


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#6 Cancri

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 06:03 AM

I have the Obies and like them, but I hear good things about APMs. You win either way.

APM is good, yes, but I find little to no information regarding the model in question. Is it made of plastic or what's the reason for the lower price?

How would it compare to a "APM MS 20 x 70 ED APO"?
 

 

I had the Oberwerk 20x80's. They were very sharp but also very heavy. They require a heavy duty professional tripod/head. Better yet, a stout parallelogram mount to sit by a zero gravity chair if you're going to view the night sky.

You had? May I ask why you do not anymore? Edit: I didn't realize how old those are, of course with time you move on.


 


Edited by Cancri, 02 December 2020 - 06:52 AM.


#7 ihf

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 09:04 AM

If you search the archives there are several discussions on the "APM 20x80 ED". Most seem to think it is the same as the "Orion 20x80 GiantView ED". In other words you may need to be comfortable to figure out how to adjust alignment periodically yourself. If you live in the US I would suggest to try the Oberwerk as customer service would be easier to obtain. Also Oberwerk may have slightly better mechanics and Oberwerk has alignment instructions on their page.

 

APM 20x80 ED

https://www.cloudyni...2019/?p=9511662

https://www.cloudyni...x80-ed-with-cf/

 

A very nice overview/comparison of previously available 20x80 models found in APM MS 20x80 ED - A Brief Comparative Review (notice not the APM under discussion here, but should give an idea what to look out for).



#8 Cestus

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 11:24 AM

Since I don't actually have the APM I can't give a detailed comparison. I have just seen positive reviews. I am very satisfied with the Oberwerk Deluxe.



#9 sevenofnine

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 03:34 PM

Cancri...Yes, I did move on. I thought I would try the Oberwerk 15x70 LW because I liked the 8x56 LW so much. They are much easier for me to deal with. Nothing wrong with the 20x80 Deluxe though as long as you're prepared for the weight. I gifted them to my grandson. He loves them...


Edited by sevenofnine, 02 December 2020 - 03:36 PM.


#10 Cancri

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 05:05 PM

A great gift. 

I did not quite get the information from the Oberwerk site, but does the Deluxe III has ED glasses? I'd prefer as little CA as possible.


Edited by Cancri, 02 December 2020 - 05:09 PM.


#11 Cancri

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 07:44 PM

If you search the archives there are several discussions on the "APM 20x80 ED". Most seem to think it is the same as the "Orion 20x80 GiantView ED". In other words you may need to be comfortable to figure out how to adjust alignment periodically yourself. If you live in the US I would suggest to try the Oberwerk as customer service would be easier to obtain. Also Oberwerk may have slightly better mechanics and Oberwerk has alignment instructions on their page.

 

APM 20x80 ED

https://www.cloudyni...2019/?p=9511662

https://www.cloudyni...x80-ed-with-cf/

I've read these. So I was suspicious and wondered if maybe someone has them by now.



#12 ihf

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Posted 02 December 2020 - 10:13 PM

If it doesn't say ED it doesn't have ED. Even if it says ED it may not be that great. If you want good optics and decent mechanics then you need to step up (APM MS/ED). I think you may be hoping too much for your money here.

 

I've read these. So I was suspicious and wondered if maybe someone has them by now.

That would be a sample of one. Some of the linked statements on mechanics were stronger before and got "fixed". Let me rephrase my point, as this is not appreciated enough. Getting optics made in China comes without quality control/assurance for all practical purposes. The variation can be very high. Each purchase is a new roll of the dice. Of course you hope/assume you get a good one, but sometimes this is not the case. You don't say where you are in Europe, but there needs to be a strategy to deal with problems:

 

a) Have a reputable manufacturer ensure quality (say Nikon).

b) Have easy return policy (say Oberwerk if in the USA).

c) Fix it yourself, if possible.

d) Keep buying/returning/selling/throwing away if subpar.

e) Send to a specialist for fixing/collimation (probably USD 300-ish in itself).

 

IIUC returning items to APM from the US is more difficult than returning to Oberwerk or Orion. And this matters a lot if getting an item with somewhat questionable mechanics. To return to your original posting "the APM brand is considered a tier higher than Oberwerk", this is only true for the MS binos, not for the non-MS which you are considering. Also from observation and not experience Oberwerks customer service generally gets the most praise from US customers. I don't have the answer for Europe. Maybe ordering Orion via one of the European Amazon sites is the best (to ensure smooth return)? But I don't really see the Orion ED in stock much in Europe.

 

Sorry, I wish I could be more helpful. Even the most expensive of the bunch (APM MS/ED) have sample variation.




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