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My recent SHO with OSC images

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#1 JamesTX

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 04:47 PM

My mono died this year.  Between the manufacture, the vendor, covid and geopolitics, it will apparently take several months or longer to get this thing repaired. On the bright side it's given the me the opportunity to push this little OSC camera.  More importantly, my processing continues to improve little by little.

 

All these images were taken with the following:

 

ASI533

filters:  L-Extreme and Astronomik 6nm S2

Scope:  SV70t

Mount:  AVX (my eq6r also needed work/replacement this year)

 

 

First one I attempted was the Soul nebula.  This was a test and showed me that using the s2 filter would work well enough.  I used pixel math to combine the green and blue channels from the l-extreme data to make the O3 channel.

 

get.jpg?insecure

 

Next up, the Rosette.  This time I mixed in a little Ha with the O3.. not much, like 10% IIRC.

 

get.jpg?insecure

 

Here's the Seagull.  Part of the reason I started this endeavor was to see if I could get usable data with the moon up.  Most of the data for the seagull was taken with a 90% or greater moon.  The data did suffer some but still not bad.

 

get.jpg?insecure

 

Next up is a 2 panel mosaic of NGC 7822.  While I dont mind the square sensor of the 533, I am finding it doesn't work great for a desktop background.  A two panel mosaic is ideal for a background image.  Probably should have saved up a bit more and gone with the 2600.  Had I known I was going to be without my 1600 for most of the year.. I might have pulled the trigger.. oh well tongue2.gif

 

get.jpg?insecure

 

 

My latest image.. and I think probably the best, the Jellyfish.  I wanted to go longer on this one to see if I could pull out more of the O3 shell but I just got my replacement eq6r and that means my Edge 8 is going to get some work in now.

 

get.jpg?insecure

 

 

This shows that at least on brighter targets this is a viable option for those with OSC cameras.  If you already have a dual band filter, the next one to get IMHO is an s2.  Then when you pick up a mono, you'll already have the s2 smile.gif

 

 

***Edited, I meant to put this in the experienced forum, not the beginner.  Moderator, feel free to move***


Edited by JamesTX, 28 December 2020 - 01:19 AM.

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#2 Madratter

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 05:36 PM

Lovely shots. Nice job. :) And yes, this belongs in experienced. :)


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#3 joeytroy

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 07:51 PM

James,

 

These are amazing!!! Do you have a break down of using pixel math in PixInsight or a tutorial you could point me too on how to did this? While I have a stock D5500 it would be interesting to see if I could do something like this for fun.


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#4 JamesTX

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 12:12 AM

James,

 

These are amazing!!! Do you have a break down of using pixel math in PixInsight or a tutorial you could point me too on how to did this? While I have a stock D5500 it would be interesting to see if I could do something like this for fun.

Thanks!

 

The pixel math is very simple.  Its just the blue + the green.  I keep rescale checked, create new image, and for color space I use grey space since the lrgb combination tool will only accept grey scale images.

 

The process is actually very similar from processing mono data, so any tutorial showing how to process SHO images with mono cameras will be the same.  You just have the extra step of extracting the RGB channels from the L-Extreme and combining the blue and green. 

 

I should mentioned, with an unmodded camera, it will be hard.. the Ha and S2 will be mostly blocked in your camera.


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#5 joeytroy

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 12:44 AM

Thanks!

 

The pixel math is very simple.  Its just the blue + the green.  I keep rescale checked, create new image, and for color space I use grey space since the lrgb combination tool will only accept grey scale images.

 

The process is actually very similar from processing mono data, so any tutorial showing how to process SHO images with mono cameras will be the same.  You just have the extra step of extracting the RGB channels from the L-Extreme and combining the blue and green. 

 

I should mentioned, with an unmodded camera, it will be hard.. the Ha and S2 will be mostly blocked in your camera.

On that note, would it be worth to pop for an Ha and S2 filter for the stock camera like you are doing on the OSC since we both have bayer filters on our CMOS sensor? The only difference I can see is you are cooled and I am not but I would think I could potentially get images like you just a little more noisey. I am trying to be budget friendly as possible. As much as I would like to pop for a mono camera and filter wheel I am seeing what you are doing with a OSC and filters and I am floored. Since I only have like 1-2 hours a night to shoot this seems like a perfect match with my stock camera.



#6 JamesTX

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 01:17 AM

On that note, would it be worth to pop for an Ha and S2 filter for the stock camera like you are doing on the OSC since we both have bayer filters on our CMOS sensor? The only difference I can see is you are cooled and I am not but I would think I could potentially get images like you just a little more noisey. I am trying to be budget friendly as possible. As much as I would like to pop for a mono camera and filter wheel I am seeing what you are doing with a OSC and filters and I am floored. Since I only have like 1-2 hours a night to shoot this seems like a perfect match with my stock camera.

I wouldn't get the filters unless you were planning to get the camera "astro modded".  In addition to the bayer filter, a stock dslr also has a an IR cut type filter that blocks a lot of the red spectrum.  This will limit the Ha and S2 light from reaching your sensor.  You can get more info on this by searching for astro, Ha, or full spectrum mods on dslr cameras. 

 

I started with a stock D5300.  When I reached the point where I was ready to upgrade.. I had to decide between getting my d5300 modded (~$300.. i wasn't adventurous enough to attempt the mod on my own!) or taking the plunge on a cmos astro camera.  I chose the latter because even if I got my D5300 modded, getting a dedicated cooled astro camera was an eventuality anyway... so in the long run I felt it was better to push ahead and get the cooled astro camera.

 

If you got your camera modded or picked up a OSC astro camera.. then the L-Extreme and a S2 filter are a great combo. 


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#7 joeytroy

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 10:10 AM

James,

 

Thanks for the detailed response. This helps me in terms of taking the next steps and where to go. I think based on my limited time I can shoot objects I might be best off using a OSC over Mono and then mess around with L-Extreme and S2 filters like you are doing. Thanks again for posting sir!


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#8 JamesTX

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 12:08 AM

James,

 

Thanks for the detailed response. This helps me in terms of taking the next steps and where to go. I think based on my limited time I can shoot objects I might be best off using a OSC over Mono and then mess around with L-Extreme and S2 filters like you are doing. Thanks again for posting sir!

You're welcome.  :)


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#9 Mert

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 06:49 AM

These are great results James, very well done!!
I have been trying to get more blue in the images done with a Triad filter, so this could be the way to go.
Apart from the L-extreme and S2 filters, did you use an OIII filter as well?
I'm using an ASIM1600MCC OSC and deciding which filters to order. From what you showed here, you only used the ASI533 with L-extreme and S2 filters?

Thanks for sharing this ( would be better fit in the
experienced thread IMHO )

Stay well,
Mert

Edited by Mert, 29 December 2020 - 06:50 AM.

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#10 sn2006gy

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 09:04 AM

These are great!


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#11 JamesTX

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 11:55 AM

These are great results James, very well done!!
I have been trying to get more blue in the images done with a Triad filter, so this could be the way to go.
Apart from the L-extreme and S2 filters, did you use an OIII filter as well?
I'm using an ASIM1600MCC OSC and deciding which filters to order. From what you showed here, you only used the ASI533 with L-extreme and S2 filters?

Thanks for sharing this ( would be better fit in the
experienced thread IMHO )

Stay well,
Mert

Thanks!

 

I only used the L-Extreme and the S2 filter.  With the L-Extreme you will get both Ha and O3 at the same time so there's no need for a separate O3 filter.  Since O3 straddles the line between green and blue, you'll get O3 data on the green and blue channels which is why I just add them together after splitting the L-extreme data into separate color channels.


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#12 Mert

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 12:53 PM

Thanks James, that's exactly what I needed to confirm.
I will order a 4.5nm 2" S2 filter ( future new 2600 maybe ) and reconfigure my optical train to make space for a filterslider.
So the color scheme is HSO :waytogo:

#13 CCD-Freak

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 12:56 PM

I need to start looking for an S2 filter. 

 

John Love
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WD5IKX


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#14 Mert

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 01:40 PM

Oh, so the color scheme is SHO, my wrong!
S2 for red, Halfa for green
and Green + Blue for the blue channel.

Edited by Mert, 29 December 2020 - 01:40 PM.


#15 JamesTX

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 02:08 PM

Oh, so the color scheme is SHO, my wrong!
S2 for red, Halfa for green
and Green + Blue for the blue channel.

Correct.



#16 v5planet

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 04:07 PM

These are really great, James. I live under Bortle 6/7 skies with clear nights that only ever seem to align with a big ol' moon, so have mostly been introducing myself to this hobby with narrowband imaging of emission nebulae. I shoot with a 2600mc and a Triad Ultra (which has S2 and Hb band passes as well), and have been looking for ways to tackle the heavy dominance of the Ha signal on these subjects. This thread and some other ones on this forum have been quite inspiring in that regard (https://www.cloudyni...-your-results/ comes to mind). I've also seen some similar work of people using a simulated HOO palette by separating the signals with these kinds of filters.

 

One thing I have noticed in my own data, though, is that the "OIII" signal is extremely weak and washed out. In practice, how long of integrations do you find yourself doing before your pixel math starts yielding clear results?


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#17 JamesTX

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 07:04 PM

These are really great, James. I live under Bortle 6/7 skies with clear nights that only ever seem to align with a big ol' moon, so have mostly been introducing myself to this hobby with narrowband imaging of emission nebulae. I shoot with a 2600mc and a Triad Ultra (which has S2 and Hb band passes as well), and have been looking for ways to tackle the heavy dominance of the Ha signal on these subjects. This thread and some other ones on this forum have been quite inspiring in that regard (https://www.cloudyni...-your-results/ comes to mind). I've also seen some similar work of people using a simulated HOO palette by separating the signals with these kinds of filters.

 

One thing I have noticed in my own data, though, is that the "OIII" signal is extremely weak and washed out. In practice, how long of integrations do you find yourself doing before your pixel math starts yielding clear results?

Thanks!

 

One of the advantages L-Extreme + S2 has over the Triad is that you get separate S2 and Ha data without having to simulate the s2.  As you can see here.. its a very straight forward process.

 

In regards to the O3, its going to depend a lot on your target.  The first target I shot with the L-Extreme was the cave nebula.. which wasn't a great showcase for the filter as there is basically no O3 in there.  Other targets like the Seagull or Jelly fish have plenty of O3, and S2.

 

On integration time, honestly I usually go for as much as I can get.. moon cycles tend to be the bookends on my imaging runs, although sometimes I just get tired of looking at the same target for so long, lol.  My jellyfish has over 30 hours on it.

 

Here's the Seagull with just ~6 hours on S2 and ~6 hours on L-Extreme.  I'm in a bortle 4 but as I stated earlier, all of this seagull data was pulled with a 90% or greater moon.

 

This is stacked and stf autostretch:

 

SAmhtXg.jpg

 

Here's what it looks like with the lum pulled from S2 and RGB channels pulled from L-Extreme (with stf autostretch):

 

JdvSuN2.jpg

 

This is my "o3" after adding the blue and green together:

 

XJyh2BO.jpg

 

And here's what you get when you combine all three with the lrgb combination tool (stf autostretched):

 

h46586L.jpg

 

As I said.. pretty straight forward, and identical to what I do with Mono except this has the added step of pulling RGB from the L-Extreme.


Edited by JamesTX, 29 December 2020 - 07:41 PM.

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#18 v5planet

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 07:42 PM

Thanks, James, that's super helpful! If it's not too much trouble, I'm wondering what your extracted RGB channels from the L-Extreme looked like on your image of the Soul Nebula? I have several hours of Triad Ultra data on that target, so it's probably the most apples-to-apples reference point for what I might be able to achieve.

 

 

(You're right also, that I don't have the benefit of proper S2 signal. I've mostly been playing with HOO-style compositing, though I've seen some interesting stuff done with the total RGB "luminance" as a makeshift S2 channel).



#19 JamesTX

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 08:12 PM

Here you go:

 

c7Fiflq.jpg


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#20 joeytroy

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Posted 31 December 2020 - 12:14 PM

James,

 

Do you think the following filters would work?

 

Astronomik SII 12nm CCD

https://optcorp.com/...2-round-mounted

 

ZWO 2" Duo Band Filter

https://optcorp.com/...=30705398448197

 

Trying to keep the price down if possible.



#21 JamesTX

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Posted 31 December 2020 - 01:05 PM

James,

 

Do you think the following filters would work?

 

Astronomik SII 12nm CCD

https://optcorp.com/...2-round-mounted

 

ZWO 2" Duo Band Filter

https://optcorp.com/...=30705398448197

 

Trying to keep the price down if possible.

Afraid I don't have any experience beyond the filters I own. 

 

The larger band pass on both filters will mean less contrast... however my understanding is that if you are shooting from a darksite, then the larger band pass are okay.  I've seen examples on cloudynights comparing the 12nm to 6nm or less with Ha.  Not sure about s2.  I've also seen images here with the zwo duo.  The concept is the same.. just unsure what the results will be like. 



#22 joeytroy

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Posted 31 December 2020 - 01:19 PM

Afraid I don't have any experience beyond the filters I own. 

 

The larger band pass on both filters will mean less contrast... however my understanding is that if you are shooting from a darksite, then the larger band pass are okay.  I've seen examples on cloudynights comparing the 12nm to 6nm or less with Ha.  Not sure about s2.  I've also seen images here with the zwo duo.  The concept is the same.. just unsure what the results will be like. 

Thanks James I will do more research. As it stands I am in bortles 4 so not complete dark site but it's solid for sure compared to the city. I will do more research and see what I come up again just trying to be cost effective but also don't want to screw myself either with being cheap.


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#23 JamesTX

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 12:47 PM

I recently uploaded a video showing the basic process of creating a SHO image with my asi533, the L-Extreme and s S2 filter.

 

Comments, questions, suggestions welcome.  :)

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=_yaCYtC5_G8


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#24 joeytroy

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 01:41 PM

James,

 

Thanks for sharing man! Already book marked waytogo.gif


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