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Nothing to do? Want to practice processing?

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#51 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 03:19 AM

 

 

@freddy: I use TeamSpeak for audio on my private server and TeamViewer. I don't like and don't trust Microsoft so I avoid it whenever I can.

 

 

Haha, yeah, i feel youre pain..

 

Although Teamviewer has sometimes his issues also but in most cases works fine and fast.

Their Teams works well, but Skype at the time was a disaster.

I have no experiece with Teams for homeusers though ...we use it in a professional environment.



#52 Bretw01

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 03:48 AM

Thanks for sharing!

 

Yes, cloudy for a few weeks now and re-processing many of my own. Nice to have something new to work with.

 

My attempt at your M42 data:

 

ElfM42w.jpg

 

Thanks again!


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#53 the Elf

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 04:43 AM


 

Have you rotated the stack though? I see some banding but it's at an angle. My debanding tools don't work with angled banding (yet).

 

No, I did not. Might be the great amount of satellites that crossed the subs. Or the dither pattern was not optimal. Honestly I don't know.



#54 the Elf

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 04:45 AM

Yeah i had some could not open also . If you use DSS it is easy, load them in DSS , it will read the tiffs  and save them as FTS files.

Then Startools is feeling ok with it.

Is there one file format that works for all? I can add fits but given the file size this will quickly use up may web space. If I provide fits I guess Gimp and PS won't open it.



#55 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 05:09 AM

No indeed GIMP seem to have trouble opening Fits,

 

But for me it is no issue, 

Strange though because startools reads  and writes TIFF , only some of yours it rejected, i don't see the point.

But transferring it to a Fts is done in a split second, so very easy.

 

Or maybe some are in 32 bits format . Dunno.

DSS by default produces a 32 bit tiff, GIMP could not read that either, it had to be converted to a 16 bit Tiff. Then GIMP could load it.

 

It is always something ...



#56 the Elf

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 06:54 AM

ADDED MORE

 

Dears,

 

I just added OSC and Ha files of California, Eagle, Horesehead and Flame and the Cygnus Wall.

HH and flame is tricky or should I say poor data? Alnitak causes a reflection of the primary obstruction that is hard to remove.

 

Enjoy!


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#57 imtl

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 07:20 AM

After short personal discussion with Elf, I'm also adding SHO data for the Tarantula nebula (Large Magellanic cloud) which is something all northern hemisphere astronomers don't usually have access to. You can play with Hubble palette or whatever. Be creative. If anyone wants also RGB data for this let me know. I have just enough data for star colors. (I uploaded fits and tif formats)

 

Link to NGC 2070: Tarantula nebula - Large Magellanic cloud 

 

 

** If anyone wants to play with mosaic as well. I can share data of the "Flying dragons of Ara" - 2 panels. Or I can try and share 9 panel mosaic data for those who really want some challenge.

 

** Elf, I might need your help storing more data. But let's see first if anyone is even interested.


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#58 Der_Pit

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 08:59 AM

No indeed GIMP seem to have trouble opening Fits,

 

But for me it is no issue, 

Strange though because startools reads  and writes TIFF , only some of yours it rejected, i don't see the point.

But transferring it to a Fts is done in a split second, so very easy.

 

Or maybe some are in 32 bits format . Dunno.

DSS by default produces a 32 bit tiff, GIMP could not read that either, it had to be converted to a 16 bit Tiff. Then GIMP could load it.

 

It is always something ...

What version of GIMP do you use?  I'm at gimp-2.10.22, and that does read FITS w/o issues, be it byte, (U)INT or 32bit float.  The only 'issue' for me is that it automatically opens all the extension, which produces a mess on screen when opening files like the ones from Eyal that reproduce part of the header information as extension of type 'image' crazy.gif



#59 imtl

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 09:06 AM

Honestly I work with PI so I saved the fits files from xsif over there . I also uploaded tifs. Is there any other format you prefer? I don't use gimp but I'm more than happy to try and save in formats that people want (within limits of storage)

 

What version of GIMP do you use?  I'm at gimp-2.10.22, and that does read FITS w/o issues, be it byte, (U)INT or 32bit float.  The only 'issue' for me is that it automatically opens all the extension, which produces a mess on screen when opening files like the ones from Eyal that reproduce part of the header information as extension of type 'image' crazy.gif



#60 Der_Pit

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 09:09 AM

I like how processing other people's data makes one's skills jump way more than processing our own data. Not sure why.

My guess is that it confronts you with new hurdles that require you to think about what you do.  Only processing your own data you quickly end up in a standard routine that you follow without much thinking, especially about ways to do things different/better...


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#61 Der_Pit

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 09:27 AM

Honestly I work with PI so I saved the fits files from xsif over there . I also uploaded tifs. Is there any other format you prefer? I don't use gimp but I'm more than happy to try and save in formats that people want (within limits of storage)

No, don't bother.  At least not for me.  Either TIFF or FITS are fine - was just the first time I opened a FITS with binary extensions in GIMP (and I'm using FITS since 30 years or so...) wink.gif


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#62 the Elf

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 09:55 AM

Can PhotoShop open fits as well?



#63 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 10:29 AM

A little late to the party, but here none the less. Thanks, Elf for sharing your data. For some reason, none of the TIF files I've tried will open directly in SiriL, but I opened Orion in GIMP, converted it to a FIT and it then opened fine in SiriL. Just for fun, and to help me learn GIMP, the only thing I did in SiriL was photometric color calibration. All stretching, noise reduction, etc. was done in GIMP. I still have a lot to learn, but it was fun to work on. I'll probably try several different approaches before it's all over with, but here's my first take on your Orion stack.

Thanks Again!

Tim

Attached Thumbnails

  • OrionNebula_27x2min conversion small.jpg

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#64 imtl

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 12:57 PM

Here's another practice for you all. This time a famous globular cluster. Omega Centauri.

I've uploaded RGB data. Try and resolve this glob all the way to the core. Deconvolution and all kinds of star handling methods are recommended in these types of objects since it's all about dealing with stars here. It has relative high dynamic range since getting the core not to blow up while still getting all the faint little stars is not easy. Hope you find it useful for your skill set.

 

Link


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#65 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 01:19 PM

What version of GIMP do you use?  I'm at gimp-2.10.22, and that does read FITS w/o issues, be it byte, (U)INT or 32bit float.  The only 'issue' for me is that it automatically opens all the extension, which produces a mess on screen when opening files like the ones from Eyal that reproduce part of the header information as extension of type 'image' crazy.gif

Version 2.10.12

 

I does load the fits but does not display . At start it ask some questions to convert that does not do much.

But as explained no big issue.


Edited by F.Meiresonne, 11 January 2021 - 06:24 AM.


#66 Tim J Fowler

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 04:08 PM

My botched version of your wonderful Whirlpool stack. I'm really going to have to do some woodshedding on star masks, or masks in general.

I only edit the whole image at the same time, and I know I would benefit from using masks, I've just been to lazy to learn about them so far.

I also know I can get better results using more of the features of SiriL, but again, I chose to do everything except the photometric color calibration

in GIMP to help me learn processing rather than just clicking a button.

Anyway, thanks again, Elf, for sharing.

Tim

Attached Thumbnails

  • WhirlpoolGalaxy_88x7min small.jpg

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#67 rogue

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 07:36 PM

i like this exercise... i would be interested in knowing people's processing steps though. Would help us less experienced learn i think
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#68 jonnybravo0311

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 08:15 PM

Here's my shot at M51. This one was strangely more difficult than some of the other data provided. A few of the stars were already clipped, so I had to protect them to not blow them out even more. The galaxy itself wanted to blow out as well, so had to do multiple different stretches and masks to protect areas.

 

Here's my result:

 

M51 Elf

 

For those who want to know the steps I took, here they are at a high level:

 

Dynamic background extraction - division

Dynamic background extraction - subtraction

Photometric color calibration

SCNR

Masked stretch

Arcsinh stretch

Created star mask and applied it

Manual stretch with Histogram Transformation

Curves adjustment on RGB/K

Arcsinh stretch

Created starless image and pulled luminance channel

Pixel Math to create a galaxy minus stars mask

More curves adjustments with different masks applied to boost saturation in the galaxy and slightly in stars, desaturate the surrounding space

TGVDenoise and Multiscale Median Transform to help mitigate the background noise


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#69 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 01:57 AM

Boy what a vocabularium PI has...that terminology does not tell me anything...

 

In Startools you just bin-stretch-crop-whipe gradients-redo the global stretch.Its Always a bit the main workflow.

 

Then it depends. Add color-sharpen-contrast-decon-hdr and play with its parameters each module has.

 

Very often you use mask. I used a mask to get different color on the companion and another mask to get a more blueish one on the main galaxie...

 

 But you can do much more, sometimes cut the nebulae out to work on the stars only or vice versa. Blend everything in afterwards. Forgot a bit the procedure, i should write i down next time...

That is my bad , i allways keep forgetting things...


Edited by F.Meiresonne, 11 January 2021 - 02:03 AM.


#70 imtl

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 02:56 AM

startools: bin-stretch-crop-whipe gradients-redo the global stretch

 

PI parallel: integrate-stretch-dynamic crop-ABE/DBE-stretch (However, this is not the way things are done in PI)

 

 

 

Regarding post stretch stages you mentioned. Similar terminology can be found between the software. It's not that different that one cannot understand what are the names of the different tools.

 

BTW, decov should be done at linear stage and not after stretching.


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#71 Mike in Rancho

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 04:56 AM

Boy what a vocabularium PI has...that terminology does not tell me anything...

 

In Startools you just bin-stretch-crop-whipe gradients-redo the global stretch.Its Always a bit the main workflow.

 

Then it depends. Add color-sharpen-contrast-decon-hdr and play with its parameters each module has.

 

Very often you use mask. I used a mask to get different color on the companion and another mask to get a more blueish one on the main galaxie...

 

 But you can do much more, sometimes cut the nebulae out to work on the stars only or vice versa. Blend everything in afterwards. Forgot a bit the procedure, i should write i down next time...

That is my bad , i allways keep forgetting things...

Hey Freddy, you know ST keeps a log of what you do/did to produce your image?  No need to write everything down.  It's in the distro directory where you copy the license and all that - just a text file called Startools.  Then only thing is it seems to build upon itself every time you use it, and it also stores your masks in some kind of cryptic format - so the file gets big and long fast.  I rename that text file after each use (it'll make a new one) so I can identify which log goes to which image.  If I forget then it's also possible to do text searches in notepad to find known placemarkers.

 

 

startools: bin-stretch-crop-whipe gradients-redo the global stretch

 

PI parallel: integrate-stretch-dynamic crop-ABE/DBE-stretch (However, this is not the way things are done in PI)

 

 

 

Regarding post stretch stages you mentioned. Similar terminology can be found between the software. It's not that different that one cannot understand what are the names of the different tools.

 

BTW, decov should be done at linear stage and not after stretching.

I believe, based on the descriptions anyway, that that is built in to the way ST works.  It can go back to the linear state and then "push it forward" back to where you are.
 



#72 Mike in Rancho

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 05:07 AM

Thank you Elf for providing this opportunity.  A great breadth of targets for much-needed beginner practice.  I hope I can find time to get to them all.  And Eyal too - I most certainly want to get some practice with a cluster, since I also want to capture the Perseus double soon.

 

This data also serves as a potent reminder of just how flawed my own data acquisition is at this stage!

 

But, let's get to the pictures.  I tried your M33, and it was a pleasure even though it presented me with a few problems to handle - which is a good thing.  One thing I noticed in your final M33, and have also seen in other expert images, is how the stars and galaxy seem to sparkle with a certain brightness - like a thousand jewels.  I have not yet found the way to achieve that striking appearance, in any my images, or processing yours for that matter.  undecided.gif

 

All in Startools, then only scaled and jpegged in Gimp.  Oh yeah, I also used Freddy's tip of having DSS convert to FITS first.

 

Elfs M33 Test 1AA 900px.jpg


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#73 imtl

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 05:10 AM

I believe, based on the descriptions anyway, that that is built in to the way ST works.  It can go back to the linear state and then "push it forward" back to where you are.

 

Mike,

 

You're right. I think I remember now that Ivo from startools explaining indeed that ST reverses back all the non linear processes done in order to do the deconv. Thanks for reminding me of that. It's important for people to understand what is decov and how to use it and when. 


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#74 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 06:31 AM

startools: bin-stretch-crop-whipe gradients-redo the global stretch

 

PI parallel: integrate-stretch-dynamic crop-ABE/DBE-stretch (However, this is not the way things are done in PI)

 

 

 

Regarding post stretch stages you mentioned. Similar terminology can be found between the software. It's not that different that one cannot understand what are the names of the different tools.

 

BTW, decov should be done at linear stage and not after stretching.

deconv is not in the initial (1st part) workflow in ST.

 

Don't ask me why...

 

The first part is a loop ; you load the image -bin - first strech-crop -wipe; after that you redo a global stretch...here the loops end.



#75 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 06:34 AM

Hey Freddy, you know ST keeps a log of what you do/did to produce your image?  No need to write everything down.  It's in the distro directory where you copy the license and all that - just a text file called Startools.  Then only thing is it seems to build upon itself every time you use it, and it also stores your masks in some kind of cryptic format - so the file gets big and long fast.  I rename that text file after each use (it'll make a new one) so I can identify which log goes to which image.  If I forget then it's also possible to do text searches in notepad to find known placemarkers.

 

 

I believe, based on the descriptions anyway, that that is built in to the way ST works.  It can go back to the linear state and then "push it forward" back to where you are.
 

Yes, indeed , i know this, only i should have kept them.

A good idea there you mentioned, renaming and saving the log, make sense, i just might start to doing  that...


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