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Oberwerk Dax and Peterson mount

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#1 Profguy

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 05:28 PM

Hello all, I’m nearly ready to purchase my first pair of big binoculars, and I have it narrowed down to either the Oberwerk 15x70 Deluxe or the 20x80 Deluxe III, leaning toward the 20x80. I’m also thinking strongly about putting them on a Peterson mount. Can anyone speak to this combo, and whether either of the Oberwerks are better suited to the Peterson? I know the 15x70s will have a wider field of view, but I’m drawn by the bigger aperture and greater magnification of the 20x80s. Any drawbacks to the Deluxe IIIs that I haven’t thought of? As always, many thanks for your information and insights.



#2 Profguy

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 05:29 PM

Sorry for the typo in the subject. It should have read Dlx. Autocorrect!



#3 Mark9473

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 05:36 PM

For a second there I thought Oberwerk were opening a store next to our factory in Dax (France). ;-)


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#4 wrvond

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 05:55 PM

I'm not familiar with a Peterson mount. Are you referring to the Peterson Mounting Assistant?

 

I have Oberwerk Deluxe 28x110 and Celestron SkyMaster Pro 20x80. I use a Monster Parallelogram for both, primarily because I like leaning back in my rocking chair and star gazing.

I would have been way ahead money wise if I had gone with the Oberwerk 20x80 bino's. 

 

BTW, my low power binoculars (that I use for stargazing) are 10x50.


Edited by wrvond, 13 January 2021 - 05:56 PM.


#5 Profguy

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 06:17 PM

It’s called the Peterson EZ Binocular Mount Kit.

 

https://petersonengi...larMount/7.jpg 

 

 

You buy the mount kit and then buy the iron pipe and other heavy parts locally.



#6 photoracer18

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 06:29 PM

Anything of 20x and more can't be held steady enough for manual viewing without using a bino mount. One reason why many years ago after owning 15-20x binos I settled on 11x80s because with those you can.



#7 sevenofnine

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 07:22 PM

My Oberwerk Deluxe ll 20x80 came and went. They are great straight through binoculars. After more than 5 years of ownership I came to the conclusion that the only way to use them comfortably viewing the night sky is with a stout P-mount. That and a zero gravity chair. That's a lot of kit and more than I wanted to deal with. Big binocular viewing is wonderful but if I do it again it's going to be with a 90 degree binocular telescope. For what it's worth, Good Luck!



#8 duck2k

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 07:23 PM

You might want to contact the vendor, he is a CN member. I do not know about 20x80's, but I have the EZ Binocular Mount that I built with the kit. I use it for my Obie 25x100's.

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#9 wrvond

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 07:24 PM

It’s called the Peterson EZ Binocular Mount Kit.

 

https://petersonengi...larMount/7.jpg 

 

 

You buy the mount kit and then buy the iron pipe and other heavy parts locally.

If I were going to go the DIY route, I'd simply make one of wood. There are plans all over the net.

 

For me, 10x is as low as I want to go for astronomy. I then jump to 20x because it's a visually significant increase. My 28x Obies provide maximum magnification that matches up with the lowest magnification of my telescopes. 



#10 Mike G.

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 07:32 PM

20x80's will give you at least 3 stars in the Trapezium and M42 will be significantly better than in 15x70's.  as posted above, 10x is handheld, if I want more than that (and don't want to drag out the APMs), I have a very easy to set up Bogen tripod with an L-bracket for the 20x80's.  this setup is extremely portable and is up and running in 2 minutes.  even though I have better binos than the 20x80's, I have no plans to sell them and use them regularly.  they are in a 'sweet spot' among big(ish) binos.  more like smallest of the big binos!


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#11 Michael Rapp

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 10:58 PM

I absolutely can speak to this.  I have been using a pair of Pentax 10x50s on a Peterson mount for five years.  Just about three weeks ago I upgraded to the Oberwerk 15x70 Deluxes.

 

My feeling is that the 15x70s are probably the most I want to use on the mount.  I'm only three weeks in, so maybe I don't have the balance fully figured out, but I think 80mms might be a bit much.  (This is weird as Peterson clearly has photographs on his site and in the instructions of 80 and 100mm binoculars being used.  I've been intending to email him about it.)

 

Here's my thread of my impressions with the 15x70s with the Peterson mount: https://www.cloudyni...ced/?p=10756588

 

I even have a photo of the 15x70s on the mount a few posts down.

 

(I love the Peterson mount.  With my 10x50s it was absolute perfection.)


Edited by Michael Rapp, 13 January 2021 - 11:00 PM.


#12 Profguy

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 12:23 PM

Thank you all for the info and advice! I thought wrvond made a good point that the jump in magnification from 10x - 20x would be significant, and I’m not sure how the jump from 10x - 15x would suit me. On the other hand, Michael Rapp made a good point about FOV in his report on his experience with his 15x70 Deluxe bins. I have to admit I am very fond of the views in my 11* and wider bins, and I wonder if the smaller FOV in the 20x80 bins will feel restricting to me. Before all of your help, I was leaning toward the 20x80s, but now I think they’re back to even. I really appreciate all the feedback you’ve given me, and I know my eventual purchase will be much better informed because of it!

 

A number of you mentioned observing with 10x50 bins, and I am enjoying mine, particularly the Nikon Action 10x50s. I was wondering how the Oberwerk 10x50 Ultras compare to the Nikons. Anyone have any experience with the Obie’s?



#13 Michael Rapp

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 12:18 PM

Sometimes I think the field of view is often overlooked too much when choosing binoculars.  Another example I had as to why 4 degrees is where I want to be for my primary binocular is I looked at M44 for the first time in my 15x70s.  Lovely object, but it lost a bit of its "clusterness" with the smaller FOV than in my other binoculars.  (Granted, M44 is large for an object.)



#14 Rich V.

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 02:23 PM

I don't think moving up to a higher end 10x50 is going to add very much to the experience.  

IMO, the difference between 10x and 15/16x is very dramatic on the night sky.  Greater magnification shows many more fainter stars and by 16x the views are more "telescopic" in depth.  I still have a good 4°+ FOV at that mag and 16x70 is a sweet spot for mag/aperture for me, maintaining a good 4.5mm exit pupil, not far off from the brightness of the 10x50's 5mm.

 

The Peterson pipe mount looks functional if a bit ungainly and bulky.  I suppose if portability isn't needed it could certainly replace a p-gram.  I went the p-gram route myself and use it with a recliner for the best views.

 

Rich

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#15 Oneikr

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 04:25 PM

I just bought my first pair and went with the Oberwerk 20x65 ED Deluxe.  I thought about making a mount but was patient and found a Bogen 3033 with a 501HDV head on Ebay for $110 (168 with tax and shipping).  I kept watching other Bogen/Manfrotto mounts and found another pair for a steal and couldn't pass it up, Bogen 3046 with a 3066 head.  I won the bid on the second set for $105 ($138 with shipping).  It was missing the quick release plate so I kept scouring Ebay until I found one for $35.  I am extremely pleased with the binos and the mounts.  I think the P mount kit I looked at was around $100 so, for me, the Ebay route was much easier.  Best of luck with whatever route you go!

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#16 Oneikr

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 05:56 PM

Just found this link on Ebay for another nice mount setup at a reasonable price.  I have found the heavy duty fluid head makes for easy panning and has much more payload capacity for upgrading in the future.  Hope this helps.

 

https://www.ebay.com...cIAAOSwij1f-rOb


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#17 Rich V.

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 07:01 PM

While the above tripods/heads are handy and relatively portable, using them for astronomy for straight-through binos can be a real pain in the neck above 45-70° depending on the particular neck.  That's why p-grams or other cantilevered mounts such as the Peterson pipe kit are preferred for viewing at higher angles and seated viewing.  I use both tripod/head combos or a p-gram depending on my plans for the evening.  Everybody should have a tripod/head for terrestrial use of big binos, though.

 

Rich



#18 astro42

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 09:14 AM

20x80's will give you at least 3 stars in the Trapezium and M42 will be significantly better than in 15x70's.  as posted above, 10x is handheld, if I want more than that (and don't want to drag out the APMs), I have a very easy to set up Bogen tripod with an L-bracket for the 20x80's.  this setup is extremely portable and is up and running in 2 minutes.  even though I have better binos than the 20x80's, I have no plans to sell them and use them regularly.  they are in a 'sweet spot' among big(ish) binos.  more like smallest of the big binos!

Mike G,

Which Bogen tripod and head are you using for your 20x80?

 

Thanks



#19 Oneikr

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 12:30 PM

I have used the 20x65’s on both setups and they both work great.  The Bino’s are only 6.5 lb’s so both setups handle them with ease.  I prefer the Bogen 3046 vs. the 3033 because the tripod legs are 2 vs. 3 sections with a longer geared center column.  This makes adjusting the height much easier for me without having to adjust the legs.  Both heads work perfectly and I don’t find any discomfort looking at 70° or above.  The 3066 head is a beast, can handle up to 22 lbs. and pans smoothly with little effort.  I plan on getting some BT-100XL ED’s and using them on the 3046/3066 and putting the smaller bingos on the 3033/501’s.



#20 Profguy

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 02:02 PM

Thanks for all the ideas. I am definitely leaning away from a tripod/fluid head and toward a p-gram type of mount. Because I plan on taking this setup on vacation, I’m considering the Farpoint UBM as an alternative to the Peterson, due to weight concerns. I already have a couple of telescope tripods that I can try out with the Farpoint, one aluminum and the other wood. 
 

I’m still on the fence about the 15x70s vs. the 20x80s. It’s the old FOV or magnification/aperture trade off. As soon as I think “wider FOV on the 15x70s, that’s the ticket!” a little voice says “yeah, but the 20x80s will show bigger, brighter views!” Is there any info out there regarding the optical quality of the 15x70s vs the 20x80s? Since they’re both in the Deluxe series, I assume they’re roughly equal optically, but that might not be the case.



#21 wrvond

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 02:12 PM

Thanks for all the ideas. I am definitely leaning away from a tripod/fluid head and toward a p-gram type of mount. Because I plan on taking this setup on vacation, I’m considering the Farpoint UBM as an alternative to the Peterson, due to weight concerns. I already have a couple of telescope tripods that I can try out with the Farpoint, one aluminum and the other wood. 
 

I’m still on the fence about the 15x70s vs. the 20x80s. It’s the old FOV or magnification/aperture trade off. As soon as I think “wider FOV on the 15x70s, that’s the ticket!” a little voice says “yeah, but the 20x80s will show bigger, brighter views!” Is there any info out there regarding the optical quality of the 15x70s vs the 20x80s? Since they’re both in the Deluxe series, I assume they’re roughly equal optically, but that might not be the case.

Kevin's shop isn't really a store as such, but I have visited (pre-Covid) and he had lots of binoculars to look through. I'd recommend giving him a call. He's very friendly, knowledgeable, and can help you make the right choice for you.



#22 Rich V.

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 03:12 PM

 

I’m still on the fence about the 15x70s vs. the 20x80s. It’s the old FOV or magnification/aperture trade off. As soon as I think “wider FOV on the 15x70s, that’s the ticket!” a little voice says “yeah, but the 20x80s will show bigger, brighter views!” 

Actually, though not necessarily intuitively, 15x70s have a greater overall brightness than 20x80s due to their larger exit pupil.  Exit pupil (aperture / magnification) determines overall brightness, not aperture alone.  Exit pupils of 4.66 mm squared (15x70) vs 4mm squared (20x80) show that the 15x70 will show extended objects like galaxies 1/3 brighter than the 20x80 will show them. Conversely, the 20x80 will show them 1/3 larger, though dimmer, so that they may be still be easier to see because more of your retina is involved.  

 

It's a more complicated relationship than one may think at first glance.  Extended objects have a "surface brightness" that is affected differently by exit pupil than individual stars which are point sources.  Here's an informative archived post from the Best Of Binoculars that may help explain the relationship between variances in magnification, aperture and exit pupil:

 

https://www.cloudyni...t-here/?p=44966

 

Rich


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#23 Mike G.

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 03:40 PM

Mike G,

Which Bogen tripod and head are you using for your 20x80?

 

Thanks

I use an old Bogen 3040 and a Universal Astronomics DwarfStar mount with an L-Bracket (Orion).  the geared elevator on the Bogen means very easy to adjust for my wife (and others when COVID is gone).

bino4
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bino1

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#24 Profguy

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 05:16 PM

Thanks Rich, for that clear explanation of exit aperture and its relationship to objective aperture and magnification. That helps with making my decision,




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